Jay 37,287 Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 He's talking about the main theme released a while back, not the new Riddler track that isn't out yet in any timezone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 ah okay. A new cue called "The Riddler" is coming this friday ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 I know. badbu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 boring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNHFan2000 2,944 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 1 hour ago, badbu said: The music from 2:06 is terrific I think. Did not expect it to explode like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 a little bit of elfman vibes but mehh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Who is playing Riddler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNHFan2000 2,944 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 54 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Who is playing Riddler? Paul Dano bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted February 4, 2022 Author Share Posted February 4, 2022 Just listened to the Riddler track. The quiet intro and outro was OK, but the middle chaotic part was kinda neat Felt unnatural and haphazard the way the intro led into the loud part, but maybe that's the whole point btw, here's the official youtube version with moving picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted February 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2022 The entire track is just one melody repeated over and over again. Even the middle part is the same melody just with additional accompaniment. This is the Riddler theme - a g# a C a# a g# a D# 9 notes. That's it. Repeated over and over and over again. He adds and subtracts accompaniment - but this is the theme. Maybe Reeve placed a limit on the number of notes per theme? Like it can only be extremely short, and extremely simple. Now mind you, simple can work. I think this track is similar in construction to The Stone by Williams for HP1. It is a simple short theme of repeated notes which is repeated through the track non stop. Though I would argue Williams did more with it. And had more variety and truly built it up in dread and menace. And had more interesting accompaniment. This might be a simpler track for Williams. But in the same score Williams also wrote some of his most complex music. And even this track in Williams version - is not simple. But you see where I am going with this? Gia is in the extreme "simplistic" territory now. His music is simply not complex anymore. It is kiiiiiiinda just dumb and your regular extreme banal blockbuster sound. I mean I have just heard it, so I don't want to have strong feelings about the track but I just wanted the highlight again the direction he's headed in. Bayesian, bored and Jules 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,393 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 The Zimmerization of Giacchino. TSMefford and badbu 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demondm810 399 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Not my favorite, but it is still far superior to The Riddler's look, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 After Jay used the word "chaotic" I was expecting something much wilder. I basically agree with others that his music has gotten more simplistic over time. I mean, his musical textures have never been as layered and complex as Williams' obviously, but it's definitely gotten even less so I think. It's why his music has always been so well-suited for childrens' films. blondheim and Cerebral Cortex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saulocf 79 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Giacchino himself has done better the repeating villain theme, from creepy to bombastic, in Jupiter Ascending. And that cue is 9 minutes long! Having said that, I did enjoy the theme. It will work well in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 9 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: It's why his music has always been so well-suited for childrens' films. In fact he wrote infinitely more complex music when he wrote for supposedly simple films. See how this scene is scored - It is as textured, exuberant and complex as anything Williams wrote. This too - Where is this Gia? leeallen01 and Cerebral Cortex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post filmmusic 1,823 Posted February 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2022 9 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: Where is this Gia? Directors and producers nowadays don't ask for complex music. Take my word for it! TSMefford, Edmilson and HunterTech 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 In the words of Nicholson’s Joker: “I kinda like this one…” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored 306 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 12 minutes ago, filmmusic said: Directors and producers nowadays don't ask for complex music. Take my word for it! Yeah, that really is it. They prefer the minimalism sound and think it's more mature, and big, complex, intricate, melodic music is silly and childish, or at worse, generic. If any of you have watched any RedLetterMedia, Jay and Rich's musical tastes basically represents that of the average wannabe arthouse director. John Carpenter, Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross, and synth-wave are the best of film music, while people like John Williams are memorable but average. It's fine to hold this opinion, the problem is it's held by any major director who takes themselves too seriously. I have listened to The Riddler track and basically agree that it is "The Stone", just less interesting overall, but compared to that Batman theme it's a breath of fresh air. It's just unfortunate that that's the best we can hope for in terms of melody from movies like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNHFan2000 2,944 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 JW: Fallen Kingdom is not a simplistic score. Neither is Dr. Strange. The themes from those movies are used in a lot of different variations and the orchestration in both is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 Giacchino is becoming a really uninteresting composer. He was fun when doing tongue-in-cheek pastiche. This, not so much. It's so simplistic, and not in a good way TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Falstaft 2,132 Posted February 4, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2022 I miss Goldenthal: Disco Stu, Bayesian, filmmusic and 5 others 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 29 minutes ago, Falstaft said: I miss Goldenthal: I fear we will never hear something like this in a big mainstream movie ever again. The suits might say the music is too prominent, too distracting and calls too much attention to itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drawgoon 100 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 I am very surprised that some folks managed to sit through this piece in full. I gave up after the loud middle part ended. Sure hope his other upcoming gigs are fun and over-the-top like Doctor Strange was. TSMefford and Disco Stu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 19 minutes ago, Drawgoon said: I am very surprised that some folks managed to sit through this piece in full. I gave up after the loud middle part ended. Sure hope his other upcoming gigs are fun and over-the-top like Doctor Strange was. Well of course Batman movies haven't been allowed to be fun in 25 years. Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,672 Posted February 4, 2022 Share Posted February 4, 2022 I like it - it feels very mysterious and reflective to start with (reminds me a bit of The Last Duel) and the middle part is pretty exciting. The Batman theme itself... I haven't warmed to it yet. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,429 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Not a big fan of it either, more waiting for his Lightyear and Thor scores which should be closer to the Giacchino I like, the one who writes fun but sophisticated scores like Ratatouille, Up, Tomorrowland, Jupiter Ascending and Coco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 18 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: In fact he wrote infinitely more complex music when he wrote for supposedly simple films. See how this scene is scored - It is as textured, exuberant and complex as anything Williams wrote. This too - Where is this Gia? Yes! His score to Ratatouille is so rich, fitting, and well crafted. His recent scores all sound like regressions. I don't know what happened, if it's just what filmmakers are expecting these days, but his music has gotten more one-note, less interesting, and far less memorable. And to clarify, I don't necessarily think his Batman theme is bad. The heroic theme is just so indistinctly heroic and the rhythmic theme is more distinct but so damn plain and repetitive. It's simplicity is almost painful. I can't help compare it, not to any JW piece, but to Elfman's Spiderman theme which speaks specifically to so many aspects of the character feels specifically wedded to Spiderman in it's textures and orchestration instead of being a generic hero theme. Maybe Ratatouille was peak Gia and he's just regressed since then. Tom Guernsey and TheUlyssesian 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 Generally, I think directors want scores that are more background and less thematic. Animated films tend to favor more traditional, thematic scores. In one sense, this is a welcome trend; studios aren't trying to generate ' hits' with audience friendly soundtracks. But, it is what it is. The thematic scores most of us prefer are out of fashion. But, if you look hard, you can still find them 42 minutes ago, artguy360 said: Yes! His score to Ratatouille is so rich, fitting, and well crafted. His recent scores all sound like regressions. I don't know what happened, if it's just what filmmakers are expecting these days, but his music has gotten more one-note, less interesting, and far less memorable. And to clarify, I don't necessarily think his Batman theme is bad. The heroic theme is just so indistinctly heroic and the rhythmic theme is more distinct but so damn plain and repetitive. It's simplicity is almost painful. I can't help compare it, not to any JW piece, but to Elfman's Spiderman theme which speaks specifically to so many aspects of the character feels specifically wedded to Spiderman in it's textures and orchestration instead of being a generic hero theme. Maybe Ratatouille was peak Gia and he's just regressed since then. It's very good, no doubt. But, INSIDE OUT and WAR FOR THE POTA are superb also. artguy360 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,133 Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 His minimalist approach to his Dawn and War Apes movies is brilliant. Perhaps the Batman will work great in the film itself moreso than the solo listening experience. Still I do like his Batman motif. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephariel 451 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 I think I will end up liking this a lot more than most people. I love his score to War of the Planet of the Apes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drawgoon 100 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 17 hours ago, leeallen01 said: His minimalist approach to his Dawn and War Apes movies is brilliant. Perhaps the Batman will work great in the film itself moreso than the solo listening experience. Still I do like his Batman motif. Now that you mentioned it, I remember how I enjoyed the third film's score, but never quite liked the suite-like End Credits piece. That EC cue sounded almost as repetitive as these Batman tunes are, and it didn't even include one of my favorite motifs from the score: that bittersweet piano motif in "Exodus Wounds" and it is epic reprise in "More Red Than Alive". That one is one of MG's most touching dramatic pieces. Maybe Batman will follow the same. It is helmed by the same director after all. Brónach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 The last film was really disappointing. I believe the piece you reference might be a reprise from DPOTA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 I'd take this over Zimmer's 9 hour Joker theme any day of the week. I'd like to see how Giacchino uses this in the score and all the variations there will be. I wasn't taken with his theme for The Vulture in Spider-Man Homecoming upon first hearing it, but grew to appreciate it through the variations of it mixed amongst the score. These pieces sound like Giacchino's usual theme suites he writes before the score when finding the character, so I feel no need to judge the rest of it without having heard it in context where it'll inevitably be developed further... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drawgoon 100 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 2 hours ago, bruce marshall said: The last film was really disappointing. I believe the piece you reference might be a reprise from DPOTA? I don't think that piece appeared in DPOTA, but I may be wrong. The piano motif I mentioned, and its reprise can be heard in this YouTube clip: Exodus Wounds / More Red Than Alive This link is bookmarked at the "reprise" portion to save you from having to sit through the whole thing to get there. The piano motif starts at the beginning of the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mephariel 451 Posted February 6, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted February 6, 2022 13 hours ago, Arpy said: I'd take this over Zimmer's 9 hour Joker theme any day of the week. I'd like to see how Giacchino uses this in the score and all the variations there will be. I wasn't taken with his theme for The Vulture in Spider-Man Homecoming upon first hearing it, but grew to appreciate it through the variations of it mixed amongst the score. These pieces sound like Giacchino's usual theme suites he writes before the score when finding the character, so I feel no need to judge the rest of it without having heard it in context where it'll inevitably be developed further... Zimmer's "9 hour Joker theme" is superbly effective in the film. The moment it comes on during the motorcade scene, the audience knows shit is about to come down. I think Giacchino's music will hit the audience the same way. It may not impress the film music traditionalists, but it will be awesome in the film, which is the main purpose of film music. badbu, bruce marshall, Cerebral Cortex and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Arpys comment didn't deserve a response. But, you answered him well😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored 306 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Eh, I'm not particularly fond of either way of doing things. Joker's theme was fun to hear in concert, but only mildly effective in film. As for The Batman's score I'm sure it will be like Spider-Man: Homecoming. Not tonally, but quality wise. Effective in film, but nothing that I'll regularly listen to or care about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 You're saying that based off of two theme tracks? 6 hours ago, superultramegaa said: Eh, I'm not particularly fond of either way of doing things. Joker's theme was fun to hear in concert, but only mildly effective in film. As for The Batman's score I'm sure it will be like Spider-Man: Homecoming. Not tonally, but quality wise. Effective in film, but nothing that I'll regularly listen to or care about. 8 hours ago, Mephariel said: Zimmer's "9 hour Joker theme" is superbly effective in the film. The moment it comes on during the motorcade scene, the audience knows shit is about to come down. I think Giacchino's music will hit the audience the same way. It may not impress the film music traditionalists, but it will be awesome in the film, which is the main purpose of film music. I'm not saying it wasn't effective in the film, I'm saying I'd skip it if I were listening to the album. 7 hours ago, bruce marshall said: Arpys comment didn't deserve a response. But, you answered him well😁 You're almost in the event horizon of my ignore zone. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 8 hours ago, Mephariel said: but it will be awesome in the film, which is the main purpose of film music. this!!! i always say the same. A soundtrack does not have to function as a standalone but as part of the film. Therefore it is also called film music. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 On 04/02/2022 at 11:23 AM, TheUlyssesian said: I fear we will never hear something like this in a big mainstream movie ever again. The suits might say the music is too prominent, too distracting and calls too much attention to itself. That is depressing but probably true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Oh, come on! Most of the Super hero films have thematic and/or orchestral scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 8 hours ago, badbu said: this!!! i always say the same. A soundtrack does not have to function as a standalone but as part of the film. Therefore it is also called film music. True, but this forum would not exist if that is all what film scores aspired to. Food has to be nourishing. But it's preferable if on top of that it also tastes good. badbu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored 306 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 10 hours ago, Arpy said: You're saying that based off of two theme tracks? They're fairly long and extensive, and meant to represent the score as a whole, same way the trailers to a movie are supposed to represent what the film will be like as a whole. If the trailers make the movie look bad, then anyone is in the right for not seeing the movie on that basis. We have the main villain and the main hero's themes, acting as previews for the music as a whole, and they're both fine at best. Therefore, I'm not too interested in the score, and believe it will be fine at best. Felt the same way about Homecoming's score when the preview suites were released, and my opinion did not change upon hearing it in the film. 9 hours ago, badbu said: this!!! i always say the same. A soundtrack does not have to function as a standalone but as part of the film. Therefore it is also called film music. This is the same justification used for lackluster or lazy filmmaking. "As long as it entertained someone, then it did its job!" You might as well say The Room is a great film objectively because it's entertaining at this point. Why try? Someone will like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Trailers are meant to represent films, but most of the time they don't - scenes and shots that were cut - editing to change the narrative and tone etc. The theme tracks aren't really that extensive though. I remember when Ode to Harrison was released ahead of Star Trek Into Darkness as a teaser and it wasn't really representative of the score as a whole, in fact, there are variations of that theme I enjoy more than the suite! TSMefford and HunterTech 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 Ode To Harrison was released before the film came out? I don't remember that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,340 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 It showed up in some live concert. I remember KK or Jim Ware talking about it. Then Gia premiered some tracks on a web/radio show.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,287 Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 WaterTower is gonna release another single before the film/album drops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbu 123 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 hope the cue is better than the others... i am most looking forward to greig frasers work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaaaackified 81 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 So three major themes/suites then Bat, Riddler and Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,301 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 I think Giacchino should stick to original movies instead of super old franchises. I also don't understand why filmmakers who hate music include music. Inertia? Do you make choices through inertia? Does a suit have a gun to your head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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