Michael Giacchino's THE BATMAN (2022)

[Demondm810 399]

wow

[eitam 364]

I haven't heard this yet, but the 3 reviews of the movie that I've read love the score. 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Yeah I've also seen some gushing slobbering reviews of the score.  I wish I heard what they heard.

[Romão 2,274]

 

Starts great on Rottentomatoes and Metacritic

[eitam 364]

9 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Yeah I've seen some gushing slobbering reviews.  I wish I heard what they heard.

 

Wait, you didn't hear a "career-best Michael Giacchino score that pounds into your head as if Batman were sitting at the piano and playing it himself" ?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Have you read this review?  It's weird.  If you took out any sentence that references him loving the score, I think you could read it and assume he hated it.

 

http://www.movie-wave.net/the-batman/

[bored 309]

40 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Have you read this review?  It's weird.  If you took out any sentence that references him loving the score, I think you could read it and assume he hated it.

 

 

BuT iT's GoiNG tO WoRk GrEAt iN ThE FiLM!

[Tom Guernsey 2,284]

42 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Have you read this review?  It's weird.  If you took out any sentence that references him loving the score, I think you could read it and assume he hated it.

 

http://www.movie-wave.net/the-batman/

I usually agree with James (aside from the day long rows we had about Michael Kamen, John Barry and Alan Menken when we were at uni…) but I have to wonder what I’m missing that he’s hearing. It’s certainly an impressively atmospheric score but without the lack of thematic material that “atmospheric” usually euphemistically implies. But the issue becomes how grinding the main Batman theme becomes by the end. I mean I got sick of it by the end of the end of the concert arrangement (it doesn’t help that it clearly stops in the middle and needlessly starts again) let alone after nearly 2 hours. It doesn’t quite make me miss 30 minute Varèse albums but 2 hours is rather pushing it…

 

Still, I guess thematically it’s a move in the right direction. Elfman’s had 6 notes, Zimmer pared it back to just 2 and Giacchino is back up to 4. But it still reminds me of the musical equivalent of someone drawing the outline of the Imperial March in pencil. 

[Evanus 217]

 

Jeez, that review was a pain to get through.

 

This growing obsession with some of Giacchino's stuff is bizarre to me, most of the time it just sounds adequate IMO

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

Reads like he was paid to write it. 

 

It seems hypocritical to me. many of these same critics would sharpen their knives if Zimmer delivered that. 

[Tom Guernsey 2,284]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Reads like he was paid to write it. 

 

It seems hypocritical to me. many of these same critics would sharpen their knives if Zimmer delivered that. 

I’m almost certain he wasn’t and if didn’t like it he’d have said so but I am surprised he liked it quite that much!

[eitam 364]

Yeah, it's weird, the "four notes" tirade sounds ironic, or maybe as if he's trying to convince himself 

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

I am cackling, tell me this comment on his review is from one of you.

 

 

[KK 3,307]

14 hours ago, May the Force be with You said:

Yesterday I've watched The Godfather in theaters for its 50th anniversary and just realised how much Giacchino's theme sound like a crossover between The Imperial March and The Godfather. Here's the scene I'm talking about:

 

 

That opening was a lot more sophisticated than any of the suspense writing in this score.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

[KK 3,307]

9 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Still, I guess thematically it’s a move in the right direction. Elfman’s had 6 notes, Zimmer pared it back to just 2 and Giacchino is back up to 4. But it still reminds me of the musical equivalent of someone drawing the outline of the Imperial March in pencil. 

 

Because it's exactly that. Nothing more. He does nothing else with it except change instrumentation and add "modernist" special effects (without modernist sensibilities) and stretch them out in infinite loops. One only needs to listen to Beethoven's 5th, Jaws or even Signs to hear what could be accomplished with such cellular ideas by musically adept hands.

 

Even Zimmer's two chord calling had a more dramatically interesting musical function. And it had far more variety in the other pieces that came with it (the bat flapping, the longer-lined theme, etc).

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Correct.

Zimmer used the two chord motif as a signifier- like Morricone used the five note motif for GBU.

IT is not the full theme.

 

[Ludwig 1,120]

8 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Still, I guess thematically it’s a move in the right direction. Elfman’s had 6 notes, Zimmer pared it back to just 2 and Giacchino is back up to 4.

 

Elfman (1989) --> 6 notes

Zimmer (2005) --> 2 notes

Giacchino (2022) --> 4 notes

 

So we should be back to a 6-note Batman theme in only 17 more years, in 2039. Something to look forward to!

[WampaRat 1,105]

Listened to Goldsmith’s LA Confidential and currently listening to his rejected score to Public Eye. Just dreaming what he would have done with a Noir Batman score 😔 I suppose The Shadow is as close as we’ll get. 
 

I will say listening to my shortened 45 minute playlist of Gia’s score was a better experience than the 2 hour version. Interested to hear it in context this weekend.

[Tom Guernsey 2,284]

2 hours ago, Ludwig said:

 

Elfman (1989) --> 6 notes

Zimmer (2005) --> 2 notes

Giacchino (2022) --> 4 notes

 

So we should be back to a 6-note Batman theme in only 17 more years, in 2039. Something to look forward to!

Scientific proof! ;-)

 

2 hours ago, WampaRat said:

Listened to Goldsmith’s LA Confidential and currently listening to his rejected score to Public Eye. Just dreaming what he would have done with a Noir Batman score 😔 I suppose The Shadow is as close as we’ll get. 
 

I will say listening to my shortened 45 minute playlist of Gia’s score was a better experience than the 2 hour version. Interested to hear it in context this weekend.

I'm sure he would have done a terrific Batman score, but I agree the Shadow is probably the closest within what he did write.

 

I think I might have to go listen to Batman Returns today... now that's a 5 star score.

[JNHFan2000 2,959]

3 hours ago, Ludwig said:

 

Elfman (1989) --> 6 notes

Zimmer (2005) --> 2 notes

Giacchino (2022) --> 4 notes

 

So we should be back to a 6-note Batman theme in only 17 more years, in 2039. Something to look forward to!

It won't matter to a lot of people but Zimmer's Batfleck theme had 6 notes

[crocodile 8,006]

You are all a bunch of multi-note snobs! Don't you know there are severe shortages? 😄😄😄

 

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

13 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I usually agree with James (aside from the day long rows we had about Michael Kamen, John Barry and Alan Menken when we were at uni…) but I have to wonder what I’m missing that he’s hearing.

 

Nothing, he probably wanted to have his review out early, beating others to it, and didn't really listen to it. Old journalistic rule of thumb: let it lie a day and then look at (or listen to it) a second time. You'd be amazed how much is changed on the second day.

[Mr. Who 919]

2 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

It won't matter to a lot of people but Zimmer's Batfleck theme had 6 notes

That, plus the full Batman melody from BVS which was much longer (like in Fundraiser Invitation or The Batman Suite).

[crocodile 8,006]

Well, love it or hate it (the latter on this board), but there is a long-lined Batman theme in this score and it becomes more prominent towards the end. I bet the plot revolves around the "vengeful vs heroic Batman" internal conflict so it's probably correct to assume he has two themes in the film.

 

Karol

[Dave 217]

I had nothing to do this morning and made this. Please note that tempo and dynamics may not be 100% accurate.

[Brónach 1,302]

those are motifs, that significantly misrepresents some of the themes

[Mr. Who 919]

1 hour ago, David Müller said:

I had nothing to do this morning and made this. Please note that tempo and dynamics may not be 100% accurate.

Nice work but the BVS theme is much longer than 6 notes. That bit is like an A motif /accompaniment and is often played right before the full theme plays.

[WampaRat 1,105]

Isn’t the BVS Batman theme the one that sounds like “The Pity of Gollum” theme? lol. That was always so distracting to me.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

I posted this in the "movie theme running through your head" thread. But it merits a mention here as well as there is so much talk about 4 note themes.

 

Here is an example of how 4 notes over and over again (I know there are some different notes besides the 4 but it is mostly just the 4 notes) - can be so transcendental, liberating, euphoric, cathartic and epiphanic - when done well.

 

 

[Gustavo Joseph 29]

Just saw the movie yesterday, and the music is really one of the highlights. Even people lefting out of the theater were talking enthusiastically about it. 

The Catwoman theme is really present, and what a great theme it is. The Riddler stuff is really creepy and reminded me a little bit of giallo, with the solo voice.

The Bruce Wayne theme is the longer melody we hear at the Batman track, and the cape cruzader music itself is the 3 notes rhythm we hear a lot of it- really - in the movie.

A return to form for Giacchino after the more burocratic work in No way home. 

[bored 309]

Spider-Man: No Way Home feels like Superman after this schlock. 

[crocodile 8,006]

No, not really. Not for me anyway. Apart from 3 or 4 cues it was a huge letdown. Calculated corporate snoozefest. The Batman, on the conceptual level at least, feels like someone's work. I can understand why so many people complain about the actual writing though. It's not what we "grew up with", is it?

 

Karol

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I dunno, my boredom with the score doesn't really have anything to do with my priors about what Batman is supposed to sound like.  It's just boring.

[Romão 2,274]

13 minutes ago, crocodile said:

No, not really. Not for me anyway. Apart from 3 or 4 cues it was a huge letdown. Calculated corporate snoozefest. The Batman, on the conceptual level at least, feels like someone's work. I can understand why so many people complain about the actual writing though. It's not what we "grew up with", is it?

 

Karol

 

But I still think what "we grew up with" is objectively better and more interesting music than this score, though. I get what you're saying that here there seems to be some thought and conceptual planning put into it, so it has some semblance of character. But it still remains like 7th or 8th best Batman score, or something

[crocodile 8,006]

I wouldn't put it above Elfmans, Goldenthals, Walkers etc. I'm not (completely) crazy. But I do enjoy it as a mood piece for whatever reason. Other than that sonata track which is, shall we say, bit on the pretentious side.

 

Karol

[Stark 312]

The problem with Gia’s theme isn’t that it only has two or four notes, it’s that the theme barely develops, never changes tonally (except action vs dramatic buildup), and never builds into anything more. Zimmer may have only had two notes, but those two notes sounded very different depending on their harmony and other factors. Giacchino’s theme... is a harmony.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

Critics said the same thing about DEBUSSY.

no development...no themes..just tones..😉

[bored 309]

Debussy is mostly harmony, as the melodies he has are often just there to support the harmony, but here's the difference. He develops the harmony and melody combo, the actual harmony he has is more interesting, the writing for the piano is just immaculate. The Batman doesn't really have that. It's stuff we've all heard in other contemporary scores, crossed with techniques and tonal sections similar to Batman (1989). 

[badbu 123]

back from cinema:

 

Film 7/10

Score 6/10

 

The first half hour dragged on like chewing gum...

Robert did a really good job and my second favourite character of the film was the penguin. I just never warm up to catwoman. She's completely interchangeable for me.

 

The score went well with the film. The only thing that sticks in your mind is the batman and riddler theme. 

 

I also liked the riddler. However, he reminded me too much of the joker. Which of course is not bad.

 

For me the best thing about the film was the camera. Greig Fraser delivered again. My favourite scene was the Highway Chase. What a great work! At some points i thought Wally Pfister was back  

 

All in all, a successful film. I will definitely see it again.

[KK 3,307]

21 hours ago, crocodile said:

No, not really. Not for me anyway. Apart from 3 or 4 cues it was a huge letdown. Calculated corporate snoozefest. The Batman, on the conceptual level at least, feels like someone's work. I can understand why so many people complain about the actual writing though. It's not what we "grew up with", is it?

 

Karol

 

Agree with the Stu on this one. It's not nostalgia...it's just boring.

 

It is sonically more interesting than the Spider-man scores though, I'll give you that. But I was never interested in any of his Spidey stuff.

 

21 hours ago, crocodile said:

Other than that sonata track which is, shall we say, bit on the pretentious side.

 

Yea...that one was bad. It was like hearing someone trying to make the "Moonlight Sonata" out of cardboard...the core materials and writing chops just aren't there.

 

And yet we got 15min of it!

[artguy360 1,843]

Sonata in Darkness is more than pretentious, it's bad. It's amateur solo piano music. It sounds like a direct transcription of the Batman themes with no attention paid to the piano-qualities itself. 

[Romão 2,274]

Sonata in Darkness sounds like a computerized piano transcription of a piece that wasn't very good to start with. it's pretty bad

[Mephariel 451]

There is a lot I want to say, and I think people are being a bit harsh about "Sonata." But since I am watching the film tomorrow, I am not going to comment until I see how the music works in picture.

[JNHFan2000 2,959]

I've seen The Batman yesterday. I thought it was a truly great film.

Matt Reeves understands Batman really well and the thing I liked most was seeing Batman as a detective.

I was a bit sceptical about Pattison as Batman, but he just 'was' Batman. It was really cool to see. The movie let's Batman make mistakes and not be overly heroic character which fits so well with Batman.

Kravitz as Catwoman was also very strong. I think she's on the same level as Michelle Pfeiffer. She just is the character. I really liked her storyline and the way the film made Batman & Catwoman work together.

 

The Riddler was a truly terrifying villain. It's very disturbing to have a villain like this. I won't talk about it to much but Dano's performance was very creepy. Especially when we really meet him for the first late in the film.

He also has a great scene towars the end of the film that made my audience cheer.

 

Wright & Farrel are both really well cast and Gordon & Penguin. The prostetics on Farrel are really well done. He's is a totally different person but you can still see Farrel in there.

 

Then for Giacchino's score. I have to say, I am a fan of Giacchino's music and I liked the album on a first listen before seeing the film.

The music is used so well in the film itself. The themes for Batman, Catwoman and Riddler are from the beginning recognizable. That made for very strong storytelling even when the characters were not on screen, but you felt their presence in certain scenes.

Batman's theme is all over the film, but in a good way. It doesn't get annoying and really cements Batman as a malevolent presence when he's coming from the dark, fights someone or just walks into a room.

Catwoman's theme is the heart of the score. But is also used in a lot of variations that make the theme even more interesting. The sequence with Batman & Catwoman on the roof is such a beautiful moment score wise when Catwoman's theme just filled the whole theatre.

As for Riddler's theme. It's just as creepy as the man itself. The solo voice is quite unsettling when it pops up throughout the film at important moments. It's a great villain theme

[bruce marshall 1,315]

10 hours ago, superultramegaa said:

Debussy is mostly harmony, as the melodies he has are often just there to support the harmony, but here's the difference. He develops the harmony and melody combo, the actual harmony he has is more interesting, the writing for the piano is just immaculate. The Batman doesn't really have that. It's stuff we've all heard in other contemporary scores, crossed with techniques and tonal sections similar to Batman (1989). 

 

[Edmilson 7,436]

Just listened to the album. Not as bad as I was expecting, but still not great either. Most of it sounds like a mix between Gia's Lost material and his own Apes scores, other parts are like he was trying to do his best Zimmer impression. The action cues are actually quite decent, specially Highway to the Anger Zone and both parts of A Bat in the Rafters, although maybe this is due to the preceding tracks being pretty boring.

[Taikomochi 1,136]

I just got out of the film. I think the score works very well. Maybe the Batman motif is repetitive, but it’s effective on screen. More importantly, I think the softer material is given a lot of room in the film, dominant in the sound mix, the Bruce and Catwoman material specifically. I can’t think of a major blockbuster that just let it’s score (that isn’t overly loud bullshit) dominate the final scene the way this film does.

[Mephariel 451]

I just saw the movie. I like it overall. I like what they did with all the main characters, including Batman, Gordon, and Catwoman. I really like the noir feel and the overall world building is excellent. The story is mostly gripping, but just a tad too long. I love that Batman is actually a detective and his cat-and-mouse battle with The Riddler is well plotted. One criticism I have is that the progression of the story took so many bits and pieces from other films, like Seven and The Dark Knight. The climax to me is almost straight out of The Dark Knight or Joker. In the end, I think this is a highly effective film, although not much in terms of adding something new to cinema. 

 

As for the score, I think the film reaffirmed the strengths and weaknesses of the score. The Batman, Catwoman, and Riddler all have strong themes, but the themes never develop into anything and just straight up repeat in different scenes. With that said, the singular drive of Batman's motif is very effective building up action scenes. The more tender themes are fantastic whenever they show up, but again, not much variations or development. I still really like "Sonata of Darkness." I know people are harsh on this piece. But I like it in the film, the end credits, and the album.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

3 hours ago, Taikomochi said:

I can’t think of a major blockbuster that just let it’s score dominate the final scene the way this film does.

 

every single star wars film does this right?