Michael Giacchino's THE BATMAN (2022)

[Jay 37,287]

On 08/02/2023 at 11:32 AM, MedigoScan said:

Mayoral Ducting's 2nd Part begins at 0:48 (or seconds earlier, since there seems to be a crossfade here)

Gannika Girl's 2nd part begins at 1:26

 

Thanks, fixed the chart

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

Didn’t know there was a thread to this… might as well throw my input in here:

 

Batman material:

“A theme” is dull and boring, not much going on at all. I do love the “B theme” though, it’s really good and one of his better themes post 2017. This latter theme seems to work extremely well in bold instances (not released, but it’s out there) and should be considered for the sequel. Also fairly good in the small and somber instances.

 

Riddler material:

It’s whatever, definitely threatening and a clever reworking of Ave Maria.

 

Catwoman material:

Easily the best stuff in here, every instance of it is good and never feels “weak” and underutilized.

 

Action material:

Weakest parts in my opinion, so generic and isn’t too interesting to me. Which is very strange considering Giacchino does some great action cues for darker films like the Ape films and Super 8. (I know Super 8 is a “family movie” but it is fairly dark all things considered.)

Everything else:

Some cool stuff here and there, string work is fairly interesting and I do like the unsettling nature of the whole score.

 

Ok, that’s all I have to say. One more thing: I was just reminded that Samuel Kim has one of the worst takes on the Batman “suite”(?). Saying that the “B Theme” for Batman was boring and generic compared to the “A Theme”, which is apparently the best one yet.

 

Edit: I do like MG a lot, this is in no way me saying he’s an awful composer and that he should be banned from life or whatever.

[MaxMovieMan 269]

I am very excited for where he takes the themes in the next film. The B theme like you said could get some awesome development. Do we know who the villain of the next film will be?

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

Did you see the grand version of the B theme? It was in a short video talking about Michael’s Bat theme(s). And I don’t think we know about a villain yet, I know Clayface and Freeze have been thrown out there in comments from Reeves.

[Jay 37,287]

2 hours ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

not released, but it’s out there

 

What does this mean? 

[Edmilson 7,392]

Did he mean it was on an unreleased cue? But I don't remember there being any unreleased material from this score containing themes that weren't on the OST. Giacchino is no Williams after all.

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

33 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

What does this mean? 

An unused / alternate recording of the “Wayne Theme” (as some of you call it.) Probably should’ve clarified better in that initial post.

(Watch the whole thing)

[MaxMovieMan 269]

That grand statement of the Wayne theme is incredible. Love the back and forth ascent and descent aspect of it. Could be very emotional and pack a punch if used right. The score works perfectly in the film. And the film itself I enjoy a lot although the final third is meh to me.

[Brónach 1,301]

5 hours ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

An unused / alternate recording of the “Wayne Theme” (as some of you call it.) Probably should’ve clarified better in that initial post.

(Watch the whole thing)

 

 

well, i am not inmune to this vibe

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

That sounded classic giacchino

[Edmilson 7,392]

It sounds great on its own, but I do think it would've clashed with Reeves' ultra dark and gloomy vision for the movie.

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

I do agree with that. I still think it would be a missed opportunity to avoid using it in 2, considering Batman is seen as a hero now.

[Jay 37,287]

14 hours ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

An unused / alternate recording of the “Wayne Theme” (as some of you call it.) Probably should’ve clarified better in that initial post.

(Watch the whole thing)

 

Interesting!  That recording will make a nice bonus track on an eventual expansion some day

[JNHFan2000 2,944]

It's a great rendition. Somehow sounds more like Elfman's Batman scores in this way.

 

But I agree that the theme this way would've clashed with the film. Maybe he'll be able to use it in The Batman 2. It's a wonderful rendition.

 

[Jay 37,287]

Yea maybe he didn't put it on the OST album so he could debut it in Batman 2 instead.  And then Matt Reeves just put it out there anyway lol

[Yavar Moradi 2,589]

20 hours ago, LB Makes Stuff said:

Didn’t know there was a thread to this… might as well throw my input in here:

 

Batman material:

“A theme” is dull and boring, not much going on at all. I do love the “B theme” though, it’s really good and one of his better themes post 2017. This latter theme seems to work extremely well in bold instances (not released, but it’s out there) and should be considered for the sequel. Also fairly good in the small and somber instances.

 

Riddler material:

It’s whatever, definitely threatening and a clever reworking of Ave Maria.

 

Catwoman material:

Easily the best stuff in here, every instance of it is good and never feels “weak” and underutilized.

 

Action material:

Weakest parts in my opinion, so generic and isn’t too interesting to me. Which is very strange considering Giacchino does some great action cues for darker films like the Ape films and Super 8. (I know Super 8 is a “family movie” but it is fairly dark all things considered.)

Everything else:

Some cool stuff here and there, string work is fairly interesting and I do like the unsettling nature of the whole score.

 

Ok, that’s all I have to say. One more thing: I was just reminded that Samuel Kim has one of the worst takes on the Batman “suite”(?). Saying that the “B Theme” for Batman was boring and generic compared to the “A Theme”, which is apparently the best one yet.

 

Edit: I do like MG a lot, this is in no way me saying he’s an awful composer and that he should be banned from life or whatever.

 

I totally agree with your assessment! This score is an odd mix of excellent and merely functional. It all works fine in the film. But on album? The Catwoman material is SO good, Riddler okay, Wayne theme very good, and main Batman motif sooo boring, like Giacchino just trying to be a better Zimmer. But Zimmer's dumb two-note Batman motif. Even Zimmer originally wrote a longer-lined and interesting Batman theme which Nolan essentially tossed.

 

Yavar

[Richard Penna 3,670]

I have to disagree about the main Batman motif. I thought exactly the same when I first heard it, but the moment I heard it in context I realised what Gia was doing. It's representing a constant menace to criminals, rather than some heroic identify.

 

Of course there's the theme purely musically, and I can fully understand some finding it boring as there isn't a lot going on.

 

The two Wayne themes however are two of the best themes he's come up with recently, although oddly I found both of them extremely plodding in the film itself, and only after listening on album did I start to like them. Weird.

[Jay 37,287]

Wait, two Wayne themes?

[Richard Penna 3,670]

Probably two parts of the same theme. Basically all the string stuff in the last few cues - I've never been sure exactly what represents what in those bits.

[HunterTech 987]

The big issue I have with the Gia Bat theme outside of a lack of overt variance and concrete development is that it pretty much is the only thing he has going for him, given that the two note motif in the Nolan trilogy is only the central idea for Batman, as HZ (and to a lesser extent JNH) actually uses a bunch of different motifs to represent the character over the course of the movies. You could argue it was an intentional choice to highlight him not being properly developed as a hero, but even BB has more going for him than even the original hero theme that Yavar mentioned (which still ends up having relevance in the sequels despite no longer occupying its initially conceived function).

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

2 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I have to disagree about the main Batman motif. I thought exactly the same when I first heard it, but the moment I heard it in context I realised what Gia was doing. It's representing a constant menace to criminals, rather than some heroic identify.

 

Of course there's the theme purely musically, and I can fully understand some finding it boring as there isn't a lot going on.

 

The two Wayne themes however are two of the best themes he's come up with recently, although oddly I found both of them extremely plodding in the film itself, and only after listening on album did I start to like them. Weird.

I guess when you look at it like that, yeah, it makes sense now. Thanks.

[Richard Penna 3,670]

12 hours ago, HunterTech said:

even BB has more going for him than even the original hero theme that Yavar mentioned (which still ends up having relevance in the sequels despite no longer occupying its initially conceived function).

 

Fair point. I think you just can't quite compare the different films and scores in terms of that they're doing with the character. I'm not a Batman or superhero fan at all - I've merely seen all of Nolan's ones and this one and saw them just as fun movies. Hence I don't dig down into the music too deeply.

 

Fun fact about BB: Some boot or fan assembly I came across once contained a track that was in some way labelled as an unused Batman theme, and it had a very RCP style to it but also a clear theme that doesn't sound a million miles conceptually from what Zimmer did, only far more upbeat. I later discovered this track had nothing to do with the score (plausibly used in a trailer) and was actually from a concept album called 'Dream Cinema' which is otherwise pretty traditional. I was just amused at potentially having missassumed the origin of this track, given its sound.

[TolkienSS 405]

On 17/08/2023 at 3:50 AM, LB Makes Stuff said:

An unused / alternate recording of the “Wayne Theme” (as some of you call it.) Probably should’ve clarified better in that initial post.

(Watch the whole thing)

 

It's amazing that they got Commissioner Gordon to direct a Batman film.

[Yavar Moradi 2,589]

13 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Fun fact about BB: Some boot or fan assembly I came across once contained a track that was in some way labelled as an unused Batman theme, and it had a very RCP style to it but also a clear theme that doesn't sound a million miles conceptually from what Zimmer did, only far more upbeat. I later discovered this track had nothing to do with the score (plausibly used in a trailer) and was actually from a concept album called 'Dream Cinema' which is otherwise pretty traditional. I was just amused at potentially having missassumed the origin of this track, given its sound.

 

Zimmer's original Batman theme was first heard in a trailer for BB. Do you have a link to the Dream Cinema cue? I can tell you if it's a match.

 

Yavar

[Mr. Who 919]

25 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

 

Zimmer's original Batman theme was first heard in a trailer for BB. Do you have a link to the Dream Cinema cue? I can tell you if it's a match.

 

Yavar

The theme I think he’s referring to plays in a bonus track on the sessions (3:20) and this is also what was used in the trailer. While the full theme isn’t used in the scores, parts of it can be found all over BB, TDK and DKR, just not usually in its complete form. The string accompaniment (harmonically and rhythmically) is later developed alongside the main Batman brass theme in dig chasing cars for instance. Also the Batmobile Chase has some inspiration from this unused theme suite.

[TolkienSS 405]

19 hours ago, Mr. Who said:

The theme I think he’s referring to plays in a bonus track on the sessions (3:20) and this is also what was used in the trailer. While the full theme isn’t used in the scores, parts of it can be found all over BB, TDK and DKR, just not usually in its complete form. The string accompaniment (harmonically and rhythmically) is later developed alongside the main Batman brass theme in dig chasing cars for instance. Also the Batmobile Chase has some inspiration from this unused theme suite.

 

Where can I find those sessions? I like BB alot more than the sequels.

[HunterTech 987]

On 18/08/2023 at 2:57 AM, Richard Penna said:

Fun fact about BB: Some boot or fan assembly I came across once contained a track that was in some way labelled as an unused Batman theme, and it had a very RCP style to it but also a clear theme that doesn't sound a million miles conceptually from what Zimmer did, only far more upbeat. I later discovered this track had nothing to do with the score (plausibly used in a trailer) and was actually from a concept album called 'Dream Cinema' which is otherwise pretty traditional. I was just amused at potentially having missassumed the origin of this track, given its sound.

I'd be very curious to know what this exact track is, because every Google search I've done for Dream Cinema only points to an album released 8 years after BB was made.

[Brónach 1,301]

On 17/08/2023 at 9:35 PM, HunterTech said:

You could argue it was an intentional choice to highlight him not being properly developed as a hero,

 

this is usually an annoying excuse. you could have simply more musical identities for other things in that case.

[Richard Penna 3,670]

On 19/08/2023 at 12:23 AM, Yavar Moradi said:

 

Zimmer's original Batman theme was first heard in a trailer for BB. Do you have a link to the Dream Cinema cue? I can tell you if it's a match.

 

Yavar

 

Can't find it on YT but it's Judgement Suite.

 

However the CD track is made of two cues; the main one I'm talking about being this one from Immediate Music:

 

 

[HunterTech 987]

That's both not quite, yet also exactly what I was expecting

 

I think you'll be able to tell by this video that the proper original theme is a bit different in character:
 

(Also, god is the mastering on these trailer music albums horrid. I swear they beat you over the head with their overwhelming volume.)

[Yavar Moradi 2,589]

Yeah at 2:23 of @HunterTech’s share is the straightforward version of Zimmer’s original long-lined Batman theme which was used in at least one of the trailers. Way better than the two note thing that ended up plastered through the film. If it had been developed throughout the three Zimmer Batman scores I would rank them much higher than I do.

 

Yavar

[Brónach 1,301]

but i've heard that before. it must be on one of the albums.

[mstrox 6,647]

Agreed - I’m not the biggest fan of those albums, but I’ve definitely heard that theme before.  Or maybe it’s just a very samey chugging Zimmer thing from that era.

[HunterTech 987]

If it sounds familiar, the theme on the left channel became most of what you hear for Harvey Dent in TDK, as it's one of the definitively confirmed ideas by JNH for the trilogy. Though barring that, HZ is usually pretty good about adapting the suites into the underscore, so the remaining pieces definitely do pop up in the climax and other spots.

 

3 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Yeah at 2:23 of @HunterTech’s share is the straightforward version of Zimmer’s original long-lined Batman theme which was used in at least one of the trailers. Way better than the two note thing that ended up plastered through the film. If it had been developed throughout the three Zimmer Batman scores I would rank them much higher than I do.

 

Yavar

 

It's a curious theme for me, since it always got lost in the midst of the many other motifs in the trilogy, thanks to it basically becoming unused. For the longest time, I thought people were mostly referring to the bit at 1:00-1:38, since that definitely does return in the sequels in piano form. Is it supposed to be a variant of the same general idea or something else? I'd be curious to know.