The Rise of Skywalker The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread

[Bespin 8,480]

3 minutes ago, Demodex said:

 

So you think Ben knocked up Rey by using the Force?  Ok. 😄

 

We’ll know in the next trilogy!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I like that theory.

[Arpy 4,145]

I don't like how there was no goodbye for Rey, Finn and Poe. They hugged and that was it. Are they sticking together? Is Rey going her own way? Why not a goodbye scene?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Just now, Arpy said:

Is Rey going her own way?

 

She's gonna live in Luke's old house for some reason.

 

 

[Arpy 4,145]

3 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

She's gonna live in Luke's old house for some reason.

 

 

I interpreted the final scene as Rey merely visiting the Lars Homestead, not living there. She walks away from it at the end, so it was more of a monument than a home.

[lairdo 726]

9 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I interpreted the final scene as Rey merely visiting the Lars Homestead, not living there. She walks away from it at the end, so it was more of a monument than a home.

 

I agree - she buried the lightsabers as a stand in for burying the bodies. And at the same time, she "birthed" herself (or sort of "christened" herself with a last name) as a "Skywalker." So, it's both an end and a beginning, reinforcing the cyclical nature. All pretty normal myth storytelling things. I was fine with that. 

 

I think earlier in this thread or in another one, there was some idea of having all the characters there at the sunset but that was ditched.

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

47 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I interpreted the final scene as Rey merely visiting the Lars Homestead, not living there. She walks away from it at the end, so it was more of a monument than a home.

 

Williams obviously had a different interpretation. Since his track is called A New Home

[Arpy 4,145]

21 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Williams obviously had a different interpretation. Since his track is called A New Home

A play on A New Hope?

 

He stabs Giacchino in the back then adopts his pun titles!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

TROS would be great in digital sound.

[Holko 9,516]

It's great that this time I chose not to cut off myself from the Internet for a week, because thanks to the good people's reactions and listing problems on this forum and the Discord, I expected a lot worse! I really kinda had fun with it. It's not great or anything by far, clunky as hell when you think about it and I could list off many many genuine problems and weird things. But I had fun.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's the best one since AOTC.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The third one's always bad anyway. Like Return of the King, Prisoner of Azkaban, Goldfinger, Last Crusade... 

[crumbs 14,306]

4 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

Williams obviously had a different interpretation. Since his track is called A New Home

 

It could be in reference to the lightsabers.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

This was the best bit of TROS.

[Holko 9,516]

Those Ewoks looked so weird!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Roland Emmerich ghost-directed TROS.

[leeallen01 2,135]

The only thing I like about the final scene was when Rey used that piece of metal as a sled like she did when we were first introduced to her in TFA. And Williams accompanied it by giving a nice little callback to the same section of Rey's theme used in both scenes.

 

Just a little thing that shows the potential this trilogy had for touching character moments. But was ultimately wasted.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

 

[Arpy 4,145]

Yes, let's take that condescending, straw man of a tweet and bitterly complain about a man we know nothing about beyond his film and tv credits...

 

 

[Edmilson 7,426]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

 

Quote

J.J. Abrams Says Rey and Kylo Ren Have a ‘Brother-Sister Thing’ in ‘Star Wars’
"Reylo" fans might want to stop celebrating.

 

“Star Wars” fans hoping Rey (Daisy Ridley) and Kylo Ren (Adam Driver) would become romantic partners (dubbed “Reylo” online) got a bittersweet surprise in “The Rise of Skywalker.” After Kylo breaks free from the dark side and uses Force healing powers to resurrect Rey (who dies after defeating Emperor Palpatine once and for all), the two characters share what seems in the moment to be a passionate kiss. Kylo then dies moments afterward. The sequence was equal parts wish fulfillment and heartbreak for “Reylo” fans, but it turns out the kiss might not have been so romantic.

 

Following a screening of “Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker” at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, director and co-writer J.J. Abrams was recorded on camera speaking to a group of viewers about Rey and Kylo’s relationship (via /Film).

 

“There is as much of a brother-sister thing between Rey and Kylo Ren as there is a romantic thing,” Abrams said. “So it’s not like literally a sexual, romantic thing, but it’s more like they’re bound together in this movie in a crazy, spiritual way that, again, felt romantic to me.”

 

Abrams’ context is the latest reveal that clarifies a moment in “The Rise of Skywalker” offscreen. After the same Academy screening, Abrams had to explain a part of the latest “Star Wars” movie that was missing. There’s a moment where Rey and Finn (John Boyega) believe they are about to die and Finn tells Rey he has something to tell her. The characters survive, but Finn never reveals what he had to get off his chest. Abrams revealed after the film’s theatrical release that Finn wanted to tell Rey he is Force sensitive as well.

 

As for the Rey-Kylo kiss, Abrams’ clarification that the bond between the two characters is a “brother-sister thing” might strike many “Star Wars” fans as going against what’s presented on screen. The moment in the film plays like a romantic climax to Rey and Kylo’s intense relationship.

 

“Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker” is now playing in theaters nationwide.

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/12/jj-abrams-rey-kylo-ren-star-wars-kiss-explained-1202199074/

 

The Reylo relationship was already badly written, and now it's just plain creepy.

 

This twist is maybe too Game of Thrones for such a family friendly franchise.

[Bespin 8,480]

If a woman ressurects you one day, you're not going to kiss her?

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

It's established canon that in the Star Wars universe, brothers and sisters smooch.

[Holko 9,516]

I was surprised how graphic the film got. Decapitated head, Zombie Palps with rotted fingers with bones sticking out, Ben's fleshy meaty saber wound, Palps' disintegration, Rey's lifeless body with open dead eyes being limped around...

[Bespin 8,480]

It was Star Wars meets Indy at some times!

[Miz 139]

My clue about this disappointing film came when I listened to the score as a preview. I love listening to the pure musical storytelling before seeing the film, when it becomes forever associated with the images and scenes. Now I'm a devotee to John Williams, but how strange that I found this score dark, melancholy, and even meandering and lost. I thought it was the characters that might get lost, but alas it was the film itself. It's also worth noting this score features the fewest hearings of original trilogy themes, which have served as storytelling anchors since Episode 1. This has few, the film has no centre, and an avant-garde score didn't help.

I agree with all your points. Poor characterisation is this films biggest flaw. Ben's turning to the light - the TITLE OF THE FILM - was handled so badly: a talk with ghost dad, Rey saying she would've taken Ben's hand, and Leia reaching out to him. (The last had to happen so that Leia could go the way of Carrie Fisher, her big CGI head and odd one-liners were getting awkward). And to cememnt his turning, the Knights of Ren were one of the many lost ideas in this trilogy so a face off with them was already going to be flat, but might have had more effort put into it (after the choreography of TLJ's red-suits fight, this felt like they didn't want to bother). I would've loved Rey's tantalising delve into the dark side to actually have been a struggle and gone somewhere, but nah. Finn and Poe's charisma was great, but didn't make up for their lack of development - bickering yes, but exploring how strife and the presence of evil turns the best against one another, and how they find solidarity, is what their story could have, should have, been about. Finn didn't need a new friend, he needed to focus on working on his existing friendships lol. Lando did his best, introduced unceremoniously within a moving box. And yes, Rose was criminally ignored.

So if you're not going to work on your characters, get a good story. This plot was pish. I was hoping for the plucky rebels rallying support across the galaxy, new helpful, interesting friends, and looking for a way to defeat the baddies in one last desperate assault. The Emperor could get a twisted reveal as master orchestrator and Rey and Ben destroy him together, never quite eliminating evil as the light and dark balance is alluded to.

But no, the Emperor is flagged up in the first line - "This film will be about Emperor Palpatine" - and gets shlocky flash-shriek horror treatment from the off. Our heroes know about him already and have to find a Horcrux or whatever to be able to access the necessary final battle. We fly from place to place, or back and forth, while seeing lots of people we don't know much about. Jeopardy is missing for a number of reasons, and the ultimate threat of the Final Order fleet doesn't really help. The action is flashy, but doesn't matter much, and feels 'lighter' than ever. That 'ground battle' was pointless, was entirely exposed to cannon fire from above, and knocking out a comms dish does not neutralise a fleet. An entire fleet of rebels is great, but how many destroyers do they manage to destroy? I didn't really get any sense of the ebb and flow of battle. Does the melting of Palpatine, the destruction of the flagship (sadly not an Executor-type like previous ones), a few more falling down, and "people rising up across the galaxy", count for a total victory? Doesn't really feel like it, except that I'm being told so. I'd rather roll with Return of the Jedi's simple battle station elimination and forest victory, then party with some teddy bears.

And the mechanics finally got to me; I could tolerate TLJ's fleet-running-out-of-fuel-and-slowing-down-in-space, the arcing laser blasts and the comms-through-hyperspace. These are totally geek criticisms, but this film really cemented this trilogy's move from away from plausible science-fiction mechanics in the originals, tilted towards science-fantasy by the Force, into the realm of out-and-out fantasy. Now the Force is bending it's own rules arbitrarily to serve story (as per Rey's/Ben's healing and its cost). Now the Falcon's is light-speed jumping into absurd scenarios as if moving at light-speed is like using a portal - the audacious trick is tried twice in TFA where they just about got away with it. But compare it to the original trilogy where the first light-speed jump takes an entire scene to prepare, and the use of one precious light-speed jump to escape capture in The Empire Strikes Back creates almost the entire jeopardy of that film. And now the Empire can destroy a planet with a star destroyer's penis-cannon: isn't it amazing how they've miniaturised their technology! Back in the seventies you needed a battle station the size of a small moon to destroy a planet. Again, too much threat, not enough jeopardy.

It's obvious that this film was batted about a bit: the credits show Trevorrow worked on the story before it was handed on. They couldn't have helped Carrie Fisher's absence, and their handling of that would've been forgivable within a better-conceived, better-executed film. But Trevorrow got the gig by directing Jurassic World, and it's clear that him and Abrahms are adept at flashy, hollow fan-service that might carry some gravitas if the studios put enough time and talent into script-writing. Too busy churning them out to a schedule.

It's also not very clear in what way this is an ending, with Disney so eager to continue milking this juiciest of cows. For a supposed 9-film arc, it certainly didn't wrap up with the anything like the sobriety or reverence of Avengers: Endgame, or Return of the King. It feels to me like The Force Awakens is the best of this trilogy, while not even being a great film. It could have been so different if Disney, acquiring the OP 5 years ago, before embarking on the first of the new films, had spent some years planning with committed creative minds a whole and well-ordered trilogy, drawing some of the best ideas that many authors have explored in sequel novels since the late 80s. Instead this trilogy tries to be everything, but ends up flitting here and there, overbaked by too many cooks - multiple contradicting intentions and half-executed ideas, and films that feel like they are 'about Star Wars'. The Original Trilogy and Prequel Trilogy benefitted from George Lucas' creative vision at the centre - the first one being seminal, a new context for old mythology with stunning aesthetic design and cutting-edge technological execution. The Prequels famously suffered for Lucas' weak script-writing and flat direction, and the opposite of today's problem: his dominance of the creative process without the diversity of producers to round things out. Both trilogies are also quietly awful in their race and gender representation, though worst in their beginnings. And now we have films for the modern attention-span, featuring the modern ethics, full of the modern self-referential, recycled repetoire. My ill wife was watching The Hobbit, for which all of this applies too methinks, and I remarked how we should go back and watch good old-fashioned racist and sexist Lord of the Rings, because we knew where we stood with those tired old values, and at least each thing mattered in it. If only our new films in beloved franchises could be brought towards better values without having to be hacked to little pieces for the ADHD generation or made-to-recipe for the widest possible box-office grab.

I think I'll got watch The Mandalorian. It doesn't pretend to be anything other than what it is.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Am I the only one who thought this was good?!

[Jay 37,336]

8 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said:

Am I the only one who thought this was good?!

 

No 

 

 

 

On 12/17/2019 at 3:50 AM, Dixon Hill said:

It's fine.

 

On 12/18/2019 at 7:16 PM, eitam said:

I enjoyed the movie just fine,

 

On 12/18/2019 at 11:18 PM, rough cut said:

The movie was good, way better than I expected.

 

On 12/19/2019 at 4:50 AM, theMaestraX said:

This WAS a STAR WARS film and back to form also. Overall a film worth watching again, again!

 

On 12/19/2019 at 8:44 PM, Matt C said:

I thought it was flawed but enjoyable

 

12 hours ago, dylanskie said:

it was still a good movie.

 

On 12/20/2019 at 7:53 PM, Kühni said:

HOWDY, that went much better than I had anticipated.

 

On 12/22/2019 at 12:07 AM, mstrox said:

The movie was fine.

 

On 12/22/2019 at 2:27 PM, Demodex said:

. It was good

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Who are all these people?!

[Edmilson 7,426]

If Trevorrow was the director, the movie would've been better?

 

I mean, Jurassic World is not by any means a good movie, but I like it more (and think it's funnier) than TROS. 

 

On the other hand, JWFK's script is laughably bad, and the movie is utter shit. Bayona's directing made it at least watchable, if it wasn't him on the direction I can't even begin to imagine how much shittier the movie could've been. And I haven't watched Book of Henry, but apparently it's awful too.

[Jay 37,336]

2 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said:

Who are all these people?!

 

People who have posted in the thread you are also posting in

[gkgyver 1,645]

There is neither a brother sister thing going on with Kyko Ren and Rey, nor is there a romantic thing going on, unless you're in the habit of trying to legit kill your love interest on a regular basis. 

There is a bad guy vs good guy thing going on, and that's what it fucking should have been. 

[Jay 37,336]

2 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said:

Who are all these people?!

 

People who have posted in the thread you are also posting in

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

They had a Ron/Hermione thing going. Isn't it obvious?

[Jay 37,336]

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

If Trevorrow was the director, the movie would've been better?

 

The problem here wasn't how the actors were directed or shot composition or anything, it was the story being told (and the rushed pace at which it was told)

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

 

People who have posted in the thread you are also posting in

 

Most of them look new. Not forum regulars.

[Edmilson 7,426]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

People who have posted in the thread you are also posting in

 

We need a JWFan Rotten Tomatoes (i.e.: a poll) to achieve consensus about the movie!

 

1 minute ago, Jay said:

The problem here wasn't how the actors were directed or shot composition or anything, it was the story being told (and the rushed pace at which it was told)

 

Yeah, but if Trevorrow remained as director as planned, he would have had more time than Abrams did to develop the story and create the movie.

 

I'm not trying to invent excuses for Abrams' very poor storytelling on this movie, but maybe, if Trevorrow had more time, who knows...

 

On the other hand, there was 2 years between JW and Book of Henry and 3 between JW and JWFK. Also, maybe the script Trevorrow delivered to LFL was a good reason on why they fired him...

[Chen G. 3,948]

9 minutes ago, Jay said:

The problem here wasn't how the actors were directed or shot composition or anything, it was the story being told (and the rushed pace at which it was told)

 

You said it!

 

There's a good movie in The Rise of Skywalker. Actually, there about two or three of them. But they're all meshed together into a two-hour film that feels like its on fast-forward.

[Jay 37,336]

It feels like a youtube video recapping a movie rather than an actual movie at times

[gkgyver 1,645]

4 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

You said it!

 

There's a good movie in The Rise of Skywalker. Actually, there about two or three of them. But they're all meshed together into a two-hour film that feels like its on fast-forward.

 

It's actually on fast rewind. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Prepare to fast forward!

[Chen G. 3,948]

Just now, gkgyver said:

It's actually on fast rewind. 

 

Right.

 

I've never seen anything quite like it: tis bonkers!

[Edmilson 7,426]

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

It feels like a youtube video recapping a movie rather than an actual movie at times

 

Exactly what I've felt watching the movie. It's like you're watching the trailer or a recap.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

5 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

 

Exactly what I've felt watching the movie. It's like you're watching the trailer or a recap.

 

I never got this impression at all while watching it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

25 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Right.

 

I've never seen anything quite like it: tis bonkers!

 

Even Mad Max: Fury Road settled down a bit after a while. TROS just kept racing through stuff. Lotta momentum, little substance.

[Holko 9,516]

What I hated is the explicit 18-hour time limit again with arbitrary reminders. It doesn't make anything more tense, it makes everything seem that much more fleeting and weightless, that they really are just skipping and running around in the span of a few hours. It really does feel like Rey spends a grand total of 5 actual minutes on Ahch-To, so the quick change of mind is that much more unbelievable.

It worked in SW for the final fast paced Death Star countdown and I didn't mind it that much in TLJ. I also hated it in TFA when we're supposed to believe the ground crew covered kilometers and kilometers and did everything we actually see them do in what did they give, 20 fucking minutes?

[gkgyver 1,645]

I don't buy any emotion any character emotes during this film, except Chewy.

[Holko 9,516]

During his reaction to Leia's death I couldn't help but think of "The Princess... you have to take care of her"

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Am I the only one not seeing it?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

You're standing in it.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I don't see it! Where is it?!