The Rise of Skywalker The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread

[Demodex 557]

I never lost track of what was happening.  A friend of mine made the Raiders analogy, and I thought it fit perfectly. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

Oh, its certainly trying to be like Raiders: it just does a shite job of it. 

 

Really, the whole ouvre of Abrams' Star Wars entries was to put a bit Spielberg in his Lucas, which was enjoyable enough in The Force Awakens. Too bad he couldn't pull it off as well in this one.

 

Bad movie. Not horrible - its intermittently entertaining in the action setpieces and some of the humour - but still bad.

[Edmilson 7,426]

49 minutes ago, Demodex said:

It's like Raiders of the Lost Ark, only on different planets. It even features the "switched baskets in the marketplace" trick. 

 

Since Raiders is one of my favorite movies of all time, I actually died a little bit while reading this.

 

Now, if you excuse me, I'll go cry in fetal position. 

[Demodex 557]

@Chen G., I'm sorry if I don't understand what was so bad about it. 

[SteveMc 2,674]

2 hours ago, mstrox said:

We should move the entire thread into the Disenchantment.

Mattris has won.  He lost the battle, but we have won his war for him.

[Balahkay 627]

I think this movie was less about Disney listening to the fans and more about Abrams having the final say after Johnson arguably screwed around with his ideas from TFA.   

 

I mean were the fans really wanting not only Palpatine to return but to have Rey related to him?  Have Rey become more of a Mary Sue?  Bring back dead Leia via digital manipulation?  Make the final film essentially ROTJ 2.0?

[Demodex 557]

Leia had to be in the movie. If not the fans would be pissed. 

 

Or were you referring to the final scene?

[Damien F 1,742]

Unlike TFA and even TLJ, I thought TROS felt very tired and jaded. While watching it, I never got the sense that it was an important event movie concluding both the Skywalker saga and Rey's journey. I disliked some of TLJ but at least it felt like a major tent pole movie. I didn't feel that way about TROS. 

 

Actually, TROS felt like the unnecessary fourth installment of a series which had previously ended with a trilogy. This is probably because very little of the plot set up from TLJ survived into TROS so JJ is stuck with doing a lot of setup again. It is one of the few trilogies where a newbie could watch only the third movie and not be lost. 

 

I don't really blame JJ for this or even Rian Johnson. Disney should have had a plan for the trilogy or at the very least not allowed the director of the second movie to abandon a lot of the setup from the first movie, and the director of the third movie to then abandon the setup of the second movie. It is such a mess! You would think they would have learned from Feige's mostly successful handling of the MCU. 

[gkgyver 1,645]

1 hour ago, Demodex said:

Leia had to be in the movie. If not the fans would be pissed. 

 

Or were you referring to the final scene?

 

She didn't have to be as vital to Rey's and Ben's journey as she was made to be.

You don't write this extensive a part for an actress that is, you know, dead. 

 

 

[Chen G. 3,949]

Personally, if I wrote/directed this movie, I would have cut my loses with Leia rather than focusing so much energy (which was clearly better if put to use in other parts of the film) on keeping her in the film.

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

You can watch the third movie in each trilogy without having seen the previous ones. I saw Return of the Jedi first and wasn't lost. That's how these movies have always been, actually. 

[Ollie 1,059]

3 hours ago, Demodex said:

 

20 years from now when I'm looking at my DVD collection and decide to put on a SW movie, I will definitely watch TLJ or TROS before I blow the dust off the PT. 

 

Episodes 1 and 2 are unwatchable now.  At least TLJ and TROS are fun. 

 

20 years from now, if I’m still alive, I’ll look at my DVD collection and debate on which Star Wars film I’m going watch out of the three I own, Rogue One, Solo or TFA. 

[gkgyver 1,645]

43 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

You can watch the third movie in each trilogy without having seen the previous ones. I saw Return of the Jedi first and wasn't lost. That's how these movies have always been, actually. 

 

ROS starts like a TV episode. 

[Balahkay 627]

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

Leia had to be in the movie. If not the fans would be pissed. 

 

Or were you referring to the final scene?

 

I was referring to how much scene time she got.  The final scene with her and Luke as ghosts was fine, I suppose. I don't think fans were clamoring for her to have a much of a role in this movie considering Fisher died before production began.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I was totally confused by her role. I'll accept the kinda/sorta retcon that she can train Jedi as she was trained by Luke and had specific foreknowledge like Anakin did and chose to abstain from being a Jedi, but I have no idea what she was doing when she died despite that ugly little alien woman apparently being in on it.

 

It seems every Jedi/Sith in these movies has some new magical ability to do a thing per the script.

[Demodex 557]

2 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

It seems every Jedi/Sith in these movies has some new magical ability to do a thing per the script.

 

To be fair, each movie of the OT featured a new ability

[gkgyver 1,645]

1 hour ago, Demodex said:

 

To be fair, each movie of the OT featured a new ability

 

Force healing makes pretty much every death in Star Wars for nothing. Qui Gon, Padme, Anakin, Vader... 

[Tydirium 1,167]

7 hours ago, Demodex said:

Leia had to be in the movie. If not the fans would be pissed. 

 

Or were you referring to the final scene?

 

Rian bungled his chance to kill her off in TLJ, when he had a scene where she literally got ejected out into space... Instead, he gave us the Mary Poppins move and brought her back.

[Demodex 557]

6 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

 

Rian bungled his chance to kill her off in TLJ, when he had a scene where she literally got ejected out into space... Instead, he gave us the Mary Poppins move and brought her back.

 

Yeah, it's too bad he didn't know Carrie Fisher was going to pass away before filming the next movie. 

[Jay 37,339]

So this footage of Carrie they had, in this costume saying some of these lines.... where would it have gone in TFA if it hadn't been cut and what was the original intent of the scene its pulled from?

[Arpy 4,145]

I could see it working, but it would've been too early in the film to kill her off there. It would've been interesting to see how Poe's actions directly lead to Leia's death.

14 minutes ago, Demodex said:

 

Yeah, it's too bad he didn't know Carrie Fisher was going to pass away before filming the next movie. 

 

1 minute ago, Jay said:

So this footage of Carrie they had, in this costume saying some of these lines.... where would it have gone in TFA if it hadn't been cut and what was the original intent of the scene its pulled from?

Probably from her scenes on the base. I don't know if they filmed with her elsewhere.

[Jay 37,339]

It wasn't a costume she wore in the final film of TFA, was it?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I believe they may have composited her face into shots of a double who was wearing the new costume. It’s very well done all things considered.

[Tydirium 1,167]

28 minutes ago, Demodex said:

 

Yeah, it's too bad he didn't know Carrie Fisher was going to pass away before filming the next movie. 

 

She died in Dec 2016. TLJ came out in Dec 2017. There were reshoots that took place in 2017. What are you talking about?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's even weirder how she was incorporated into TLJ because she ends up in sick bay out of commission as if she's going to die. But she lived on despite dying in real life to...die in this one. Meanwhile everyone else is coming back from the dead. What a weird trilogy.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

So did Poe matter?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nope.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

He was there for witty banter and comic relief. 

[Holko 9,516]

4 hours ago, Tydirium said:

 

Rian bungled his chance to kill her off in TLJ, when he had a scene where she literally got ejected out into space... Instead, he gave us the Mary Poppins move and brought her back.

Then everyone (including you probably) would've whined their asses off because of how unceremoniously she was killed off and how Luke and Leia didn't even meet in the new trilogy and everything. What a stupid idea.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Anyone who hateth Tee Ell Jay ith obviouthly a climate thange deniahh

[Arpy 4,145]

Saw it for a second time, this time in IMAX and it solidified my thoughts from last time and made me appreciate it more. I picked up smaller details I missed, not freak out or be impatient with things I think many people experienced. I wasn't as susceptible to the knee-jerk reaction as I was with it the first time and with TLJ.

 

I got another chance to hear all the glorious unreleased music (the Kylo/Rey vs. The Knights of Ren is spectacular, managing to run through Ben's, Rey's and the Emperor's themes and mingling them together in an exciting manner!) Even in IMAX the mix was somewhat dull compared to the obnoxious sound effects - Poe's theme in Falcon Flight is bombarded by laser fire sounds, the single use of the motif from The Speeder Chase is muffled by more explosions! It's like they don't want you to hear the score. The arc of Kylo Ren's theme is incredible though, and along with Rey's Theme they remain the most prominent in the mix.

 

It's far from perfect, still has some painful pacing, editing, mixing issues, but I came out satisfied with how it concluded and it's not as woeful as some would say.

[Chen G. 3,949]

I don't think anyone's saying this film is awful or anything.

 

 

[Demodex 557]

4 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

I don't think anyone's saying this film is awful or anything.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure people are. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

Oh, its bad, alright.

 

Not awful, though.

[Arpy 4,145]

I don't even think it's bad. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

I would have loved to agree.

[Arpy 4,145]

Soon, Chen, you will. Soon...

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

5 hours ago, Holko said:

Then everyone (including you probably) would've whined their asses off because of how unceremoniously she was killed off and how Luke and Leia didn't even meet in the new trilogy and everything. What a stupid idea.

You are completely, 100% wrong here. When Leia was ejected into space, I thought to myself, this Rian Johnson has balls. Then he immediately undid it, just like every other interesting thing he threatened, but ultimately failed to do in his movie.

[Chen G. 3,949]

True. All the things The Last Jedi plays with are either a low-hanging fruit or something that he then back-tracks out of comitting to. In the first act: "It is time for the Jedi to end", but in the third: "I will not be The Last Jedi."

 

But then, like I said, in a way The Rise of Skywalker made me appreciate it much more. Appearantly, some stuff I thought were low-hanging fruit (e.g. Rey's lineage) weren't so low-hanging, given what JJ Abrams did with them.

[Muad'Dib 1,801]

Considering all the women that die in TLJ, it's a good thing they didn't kill Leia too.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

53 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

True. All the things The Last Jedi plays with are either a low-hanging fruit or something that he then back-tracks out of comitting to. In the first act: "It is time for the Jedi to end", but in the third: "I will not be The Last Jedi."

Certainly partly true.

But it did well and truly kill off the (back then) Big Bad before the finale.

 

And it also didn't play with Rey's parentage, which I thought was the best possible option too.

 

Of course then along comes TROS and, well, we all know what happened there...

[gkgyver 1,645]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I don't think anyone's saying this film is awful or anything.

 

I am. Thoroughly off putting. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's just sci-fi pulp.

[Demodex 557]

So for the people that didn't like TLJ, is this movie even worse despite it trying to appease the fans?  Or is it a lot better because of, uh, reasons?

 

For the people that loved TLJ, is this movie a success or disappointment?

 

Someone should make a poll. 

[gkgyver 1,645]

3 minutes ago, Demodex said:

So for the people that didn't like TLJ, is this movie even worse despite it trying to appease the fans?  Or is it a lot better because of, uh, reasons?

 

For the people that loved TLJ, is this movie a success or disappointment?

 

Someone should make a poll. 

 

I've yet to hear why this movie is labeled as "fan service".

It destroys Star Wars lore more than TLJ did. 

[Demodex 557]

TLJ didn't do anything to destroy SW lore. 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

8 minutes ago, Demodex said:

For the people that loved TLJ, is this movie a success or disappointment?

I'm not sure I loved TLJ, but I liked it well enough.

 

This movie is a disappointment.

 

4 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

 

I've yet to hear why this movie is labeled as "fan service".

It destroys Star Wars lore more than TLJ did. 

Can it be "fan service" (quotation marks intentional) AND destroy Star Wars lore at the same time?

 

Can "fan service" be diametrically opposed to maintaining true to its own concept?

 

Can "fans" be wrong about that which they (claim to?) love?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

6 minutes ago, Demodex said:

TLJ didn't do anything to destroy SW lore. 

 

It had 50/50 reprethentaythun

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It invented a force teleportation power, which was stupid.

[gkgyver 1,645]

20 minutes ago, Demodex said:

TLJ didn't do anything to destroy SW lore. 

 

Destroyed Luke Skywalker. 

Made Leia a Jedi master she never was, which ROS doubled down on. 

Literally burned the Jedi history. 

Introduced Force projecting, making the protagonists of the first 6 movies look completely silly. 

Destroys hyperspace. 

Etc pp