TSMefford 1,509 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 On 1/23/2020 at 1:50 PM, Edmilson said: For me, the biggest problem of making Kylo the final big boss is simple: he isn't that menacing or intimidating as a villain. We saw him being defeated by "a girl who has never wielded a lightsaber", as Snoke puts it, and then we see him vulnerable and conflicted during his Skype chats with Rey, and by the end of TLJ Luke makes him look like an idiot in front of his entire army. We already saw him being so demoralized that he wouldn't be as interesting as a villain. Heck, TROS tried to do this in the marketing, teasing an epic final showdown between Kylo and Rey on the sunken Death Star 2, and even I thought "seriously? Rey will kick his ass as easily as Palpatine destroyed Maul and his brother on Clone Wars". On other franchises, they at least made their final boss look menacing, strong and powerful enough to make the audience fear for the heroes' lives: Thanos, Voldemort, Azog, Sauron, even Vader and the Emperor on the original trilogy. On contrast, Kylo was always portrayed as this vulnerable, conflicted person, who, despite having some habilities, is easily defeated by any enemy slightly smarter than him. I have no problem on him being a bad guy until the end, but at the very least giving him some powerful allied - not Palpatine, but maybe this Tor Valum guy... These are pretty good points. I've been in the camp from the beginning that I wanted him to stay a villain though regardless. The whole redemption arc thing again was not interesting to me in the slightest, and after TLJ (as flawed as it is) set-up the shades of grey on both sides, I was really hoping we wouldn't do the route of redemption again. Oh well. Pieter Boelen and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 This trilogy would have benefitted greatly if all male characters weren't emasculated constantly, clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Well this is Disney after all, the company that makes an endless stream of dainty, princessy cartoons for little girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 Well, it seems many JWFan posters are fans of Frozen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 7 hours ago, gkgyver said: This trilogy would have benefitted greatly if all male characters weren't emasculated constantly, clearly. Seriously? Or are you being sarcastic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edmilson 7,398 Posted January 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 26, 2020 How many Disney movies a man is allowed to watch before he can no longer be considered a male person? I'm afraid it's too late for me, but I want to know this for my future, still unborn son. I'll raise him on a healthy dose of Rambo, Rocky, Taxi Driver, the Saw franchise and Schwarznegger's Commando. Or better yet, I won't even allow him to watch movies, stuff like art is too sissy for him. The less time he spends watching movies, the more time he will have for his shooting and martial arts lessons! TSMefford, Pieter Boelen, Bofur01 and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 13 hours ago, TSMefford said: These are pretty good points. I've been in the camp from the beginning that I wanted him to stay a villain though regardless. The whole redemption arc thing again was not interesting to me in the slightest, and after TLJ (as flawed as it is) set-up the shades of grey on both sides, I was really hoping we wouldn't do the route of redemption again. Oh well. Yeah, but what does he have to fight for as a villain? Who is he by the end of TLJ? Either way you go, villainy or redemption, there's just not much there with Kylo to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 When he wears the mask, he sounds like ED 209. 1977 and Unlucky Bastard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 15 hours ago, Arpy said: Yeah, but what does he have to fight for as a villain? Who is he by the end of TLJ? Either way you go, villainy or redemption, there's just not much there with Kylo to begin with. Sure. I was simply hoping they wouldn't do it again. Wherever they go with Star Wars next, I want two things and two things only: 1.) No more redemption arcs for the villains 2.) No more Death Stars / Star Killers / Planet Destroying laser beams. Pieter Boelen and Chen G. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 I can agree to cutting the superweapons at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 21 hours ago, Edmilson said: How many Disney movies a man is allowed to watch before he can no longer be considered a male person? I'm afraid it's too late for me, but I want to know this for my future, still unborn son. I'll raise him on a healthy dose of Rambo, Rocky, Taxi Driver, the Saw franchise and Schwarznegger's Commando. Or better yet, I won't even allow him to watch movies, stuff like art is too sissy for him. The less time he spends watching movies, the more time he will have for his shooting and martial arts lessons! Women only like men who are outdoorsmen, hunt live game, get into fist fights with everyone who looks at them wrong, and regularly eat beef jerky. Raising a kid on movies will just neuter him and women won't want to breed with him. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Disney used to make manly shit like Treasure Island and Davy Crockett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Then they decided to focus exclusively on the princess schtick, with sparkling fairies and shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Snow White and Cinderella were out first, so it makes sense to capitalise on the brand if that's where it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,305 Posted January 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 27, 2020 Not exactly SW-related but this video with John Boyega choked me up. What a beautiful son! DarthDementous, The Illustrious Jerry, Arpy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted January 27, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 27, 2020 For all the shit that's heaped upon this trilogy, I absolutely love the main cast. In all the interviews they do, post on social media etc. they seem like great friends and genuinely good people. Cerebral Cortex, Chen G., The Illustrious Jerry and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,499 Posted February 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 1, 2020 https://assets.adg.org/media/submissions/2019-12-27_11-27-04/SW_ADG_PDF.pdf Production design "FYC" booklet. Some really interesting stuff in here! DarthDementous, The Illustrious Jerry, Fabulin and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Artwork from Treverrow's Duel of the fates - https://imgur.com/a/fbZFcbC I am going to straight up say it here - after thinking about it and reading the outline and seeing the art work - I think it is one of the great unmade films of the modern times. This film really could have been something special and spectacular and would have taken the star wars universe into bold new directions. Trevorrow's concept and script are infinitely better than the garbage Palpatine rehash that we got in Skywalker. What a tragedy. Edmilson, DarthDementous and Fabulin 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 It's different garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: Artwork from Treverrow's Duel of the fates Some of it looks promising, some - not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,398 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I don't know. I like some of the ideas, but I'm not sure if Trevorrow is the right person to execute them. I've never seen his first movie or Book of Henry, but his Jurassic movies aren't exactly good. But I like the concepts, so maybe if they hired a more talented screenwriter to polish it, and a great director to handle it, it could've been great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Solana? Solo-Organa? You know what would be kickass, would be a “Sequel Trilogy” video game which would include elements (characters, planets, factions, etc.) from all of the different drafts and treatments and novels and whatever of the post-RotJ timeframe, and based on how you play it out, the universe could develop in any given way. I’ve been thinking about trying to do that in tabletop gaming, somehow. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 I really dig the idea, which both Episode IXs played with in different ways, of a people's uprising being sparked by the acts of the Resistance (Trevorrow's Coruscant ground battle, Abrams' ex-stormtroopers and the people's fleet) Les Mis style (although obviously with a different resolution than that...). I don't think the execution by Abrams was anything close to effective - some people seem to have liked it, and good for them, but the arrival of the fleet didn't really feel inspirational or emotional for me - just felt like a guaranteed eventuality, especially since it was in the trailers. I don't have any faith that Trevorrow's would have been any better. One of the things I'd hope to see in the comics or novelization would be Lando's attempts to win over "the people." In my imagined scenario (or at least my imagined scenario given the framework of TROS): After Leia gave a last-ditch effort to mobilize planetary governments to aid the Resistance on Crait in TLJ, it was clear that revolution would have to come from elsewhere. Lando could go around from cantinas to smugglers' dens to persuade people to arm themselves, go forth, spread the message, and amass at Exegol - maybe using the name of Han Solo to incite action, since he would presumably mean more to that crew than Leia or Luke. That's as close to fan fiction as I get, and I'm sorry for doing it. I may have mentioned it here before, but I'm actually looking forward to the novelization for this movie, since I feel it really needed so much time/work for the chosen plot to really sing. For TFA and TLJ, which I liked, I've had no interest to bother with the novelizations because I was completely satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Treverrow’s Episode IX: Duel of the Fates script has leaked in its entirety: DarthDementous 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 What?! In this draft, Kylo is redeemed at the end, in a manner not too dissimilar to what he does in the finished film. Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDementous 1,059 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 differing creative visions my ass. I read the entire thing and it's incredibly apparent that TROS is a bastardised version of this script, yet JJ and the like claim they never read any early scripts in pre-production. that's blatantly false, there's so many similar beats in TROS to this that it has to be more than coincidence, and every single one of them are done infinitely worse in TROS. _deleted_ and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,793 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Sad _deleted_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_deleted_ 203 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Instead of giving into her fears and calling herself a Skywalker, Rey actually grows as a Jedi and understands the balance that should be maintained. On paper, Rey Solana is already a better character than Abrams' Rey Skywalker/Rey Palpatine. I guess Manichaean dualism will always be an integral part of Star Wars. DarthDementous and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTenma 116 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 8:30 PM, Chen G. said: What?! In this draft, Kylo is redeemed at the end, in a manner not too dissimilar to what he does in the finished film. Oh well... This could be an indication of this draft being false. Supposedly Kylo didn't redeemed in "Duel of the Fates" according to the previous leaks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 We don't know which draft it is, though. Its possible Kylo's fate was different in various drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTenma 116 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: We don't know which draft it is, though. Its possible Kylo's fate was different in various drafts. Yes, sure, I guess they made many iterations but I doesn't give me confidence that something as important as the fate of Kylo Ren was not fixed since the first draft. Although we know that George Lucas is also known for changing many things from one draft to another... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,338 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Uh, I don't know if this has been discussed or not, but this just came to mind. Palpatine can't count. How did he go from the First Order to the Final Order? What happened to the second one? Pieter Boelen and dylanskie 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,398 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I guess Final Order sounds more intimidating and apocalyptic than Second Order? Or Third? bollemanneke and _deleted_ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 All I know is they all sound dumb as hell. A. A. Ron and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I guess it's a reference to Order 66. I didn't care too much about the name, it's inoffensive; what else are yuou going to call them? Mega Sith Army of the Dark Side? The First Order Supremacy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,944 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 You don’t need to call anything names. Especially when they sound so dumb. But I suppose if the film as a whole was any better I would have let something like that slide. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Guys can only give 2 orders in their life if they want too. <.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,338 Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 10 hours ago, Arpy said: I guess it's a reference to Order 66. I didn't care too much about the name, it's inoffensive; what else are yuou going to call them? Mega Sith Army of the Dark Side? The First Order Supremacy? Order 66 was kind of cool though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_deleted_ 203 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I've given the whole Rey Skywalker thing more thought. I think it's just a really cheap way to ask kids to identify themselves with the now Disney-owned Star Wars brand. Imagine a young girl who's searching for mythology and legends to fulfill the very basic human need for religious comfort. Now picture her finishing ROTJ and putting TFA into the player. She'll be amazed or confused by it, having gone through 12 hours of boys fighting boys, suddenly entering this rabbit hole that is Rey, a character constructed from the iconography of all the presumably dead boy characters of the saga. Six hours later, Rey says the line. Rey isn't given a chance to establish an identity separate from the Skywalkers or the Palpatines. She's regurgitating stuff from the old films, while the film itself regurgitates the Binary Sunset, now shaped like BB-8. The BB-8 suns are cute. But I'm worried this ending would only encourage regurgitation. If the purpose of introducing Rey was to pose important questions for the young fangirls of SW, why throw in a yellow lightsaber, seemingly a symbol of individuality and creativity, when your character ends her journey with a name that means nothing to her. Why treat your character, the point of entry for a lot of girls, like a puppet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I like the bit where she flexes her fit bod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 The novel had a limited release at C2E2, and it confirms that Palpatine is inhabiting a clone body, and that body is decaying because it can't contain his power. His original body was, indeed, destroyed in ROTJ. It's Dark Empire all over again, and I don't like it. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Source: I don't like it either. Star Wars: Electric Boogaloo The dead speak... again! BRG KAH (whom you know from Fortnite 2), a SITH LOYALIST who was late for the rave you saw in the last one, made another clone of EMPEROR PALPATINE's body he can inhabit again! The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 It also gives them carte blanche to use the character again and again. Just say "hey, he made other bodies somewhere else in the galaxy" and they're good to go. I much preferred the inference that it was his original body, somehow salvaged, with the restoration botched. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 14 minutes ago, Giftheck said: It also gives them carte blanche to use the character again and again. Just say "hey, he made other bodies somewhere else in the galaxy" and they're good to go. I much preferred the inference that it was his original body, somehow salvaged, with the restoration botched. Yeah as much as that seems unlikely given the massive explosion, it was more interesting to me thinking that Palpatine was at this point essentially a zombie; a rotting corpse with his spirit still attached. In a way it's kind of a similar situation, but more problematic since, as you said, they have to ability now to keep bringing him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 The funny thing is, love him or loathe him, Rian Johnson gave JJ the perfect in for Palpatine to return when he set up the 'Force Projection' with the stipulation that overstretching means using all your life energy. Instead, nope: zombie clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 More like the perfect in for abandoning this bullshit and making it all about Rey and Kylo. Pieter Boelen and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Just now, Holko said: Or the perfect in for abandoning this bullshit and making it all about Rex and Kylo. I think Rex is long dead by this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,647 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 Bringing Palpatine back was a stupid idea, so the technical in-universe means for doing it are pretty much irrelevant to me. TheUlyssesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 3 hours ago, Giftheck said: It also gives them carte blanche to use the character again and again. Just say "hey, he made other bodies somewhere else in the galaxy" and they're good to go. I much preferred the inference that it was his original body, somehow salvaged, with the restoration botched. Yep, I thought his mangled body was a consequence of his fall from RotJ, his fingers eroded away by the force lightning. Though, it would seem likely Palpatine, in his Clone Wars plot would've exploited the cloning technology on Kamino to save as a contingency, knowing he might not discover the secrets of immortality he was after. Mattris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 OMG a final Coruscant battle would have been so awesome... Also I really like the ending in the script with Rey believed possibly dead but then taking everyone by surprise and coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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