Manakin Skywalker 4,892 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 I liked the theory that the blue explosion we see in ROTJ was some sort of bizarre Sith alchemy portal, since the blue "cloud" effect is what we see when he uses it in TCW. Some sort of portal into the World Between Worlds or whatever that lets him go into the future relatively unharmed. It would still be kind of controversial, but I feel it would have explained things better and perhaps would have interwoven the CW/OT/ST a bit better. I feel someone in the storygroup should have mentioned that to JJ; or if perhaps they did maybe JJ made the stupid choice not to use that idea and instead just not explain how Palpatine returned. Brando 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 1, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 1, 2020 I don't even consider the originals canon anymore. Only the prequels now. Giftheck, Fargo and Arpy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 CONFIRMED: Palpatine survived by moving his spirit into a cloned body, as revealed in an excerpt from the TROS novelization: "All the vials were empty of liquid save one, which was nearly depleted. Kylo peered closer. He'd seen this apparatus before, too, when he'd studied the Clone Wars as a boy. The liquid flowing into the living nightmare before him was fighting a losing battle to sustain the Emperor's putrid flesh. "What could you give me?" Kylo asked. Emperor Palpatine lived, after a fashion, and Kylo could feel in his very bones that this clone body sheltered the Emperor's actual spirit. It was an imperfect vessel, though, unable to contain his immense power. It couldn't last much longer. "Everything," Palpatine said. "A New Empire." Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,314 Posted March 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 3, 2020 An irrelevant detail. It's not like audiences watching the film needed to understand why a character who died 3 films earlier was suddenly alive. I'm so glad JJ wisely omitted these unnecessary details so we could spend more time discovering the tragic backstory of characters like Jannah™, considering her importance in the narrative and the inspiring payoff her character arc receives. Chen G., Holko, Pieter Boelen and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 1 hour ago, crumbs said: so we could spend more time discovering the tragic backstory of characters like Jannah™ Good on you for remembering her name. There's so much in the movie its hard to keep track of it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,526 Posted March 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 3, 2020 I honestly stopped to think which one that is: Poe's useless ex or Lando's useless next hustle? Chen G., The Illustrious Jerry, Pieter Boelen and 1 other 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 People are still whinging about this movie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 1 hour ago, crumbs said: An irrelevant detail. It's not like audiences watching the film needed to understand why a character who died 3 films earlier was suddenly alive. I'm so glad JJ wisely omitted these unnecessary details so we could spend more time discovering the tragic backstory of characters like Jannah™, considering her importance in the narrative and the inspiring payoff her character arc receives. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 Wow, internet bullies. Poor Naomi Ackie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Did she have anything to do with her character being written weakly? Did we say a word about her acting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Its not even that she's poorly written, its that her character is all but swallowed by the assault-on-the-senses that is this film's "plot" (if you can call it that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Further novel spoilers: Palpatine forced his spirit out of his original body as he was falling down the reactor shaft (before the blue explosion) and into the unfinished clone body. He knew Vader would betray him, he just did not expect it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Giftheck said: He knew Vader would betray him, he just did not expect it then. That's consistent with the way the Sith have been portrayed in still-canon material since Lucas introduced the rule of two, and definitely consistent with how Palpatine and Vader's relationship has been portrayed in the canon Marvel comics. There's no possible way of giving a satisfying answer to the idiot scenario of "Somehow Palpatine has returned," but as far as answers go, this one at least approaches acceptability. greenturnedblue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 At least it's not stupid infinite young strong bodies like Dark Empire, where he ends up pretty much even better off than he was, it's a rotting shitty body he can't even move in, just vegetate and wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo 297 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 So Sheev is basically Voldemort and his clone body is a horcrux? Does that make Snoke a horcrux too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Giftheck 916 Posted March 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 4, 2020 I mean... not... quite? Voldemort just wouldn't die if his Horcruxes still existed. Palpatine can be killed - you just have to make sure that his spirit is in his body when you do so. However, the whole 'can force his soul from his body' thing... it kind of gives them carte blanche to reuse the character in the future. Don't think he's got any clone bodies left? That's another thing revealed by the novel: Palpatine Junior is a 'perfect' clone of Palpatine, just discarded as a vessel because he had no Force power. So, other things from the novel: -Leia is dying throughout Episode IX - her body was damaged because of her little jaunt into space in TLJ. Luke is whispering to her throughout to try and persuade her to let go and join him in the Force. She doesn't want to until she can see Ben. -The dyad concept is not explained very well, but it turns out Palpatine and Plagueis had tried to form a dyad and failed. Palpatine had wanted to form a dyad with Anakin. -Kylo interrogates Chewie aboard the Star Destroyer by invading his mind - Kylo sees the past from Chewie's perspective. Apparently kid Ben called him 'Uncle Chewie'. -Lando had a daughter who is missing. The First Order deliberately targeted the children of Rebellion heroes and his daughter is remarked to have become a Stormtrooper. Not stated to be Jannah. -Rey had already started constructing her own lightsaber. -Rey had learned Force Heal when repairing the Skywalker Saber - she used it to repair the broken Kyber Crystal. -Ben turned back after Rey stabbed him because he realised that everybody he had confronted had tried to help him: Han, Luke, Leia, all three of them sacrificed themselves to try to help him. Rey was prepared to give all of her life force to Ben also. -Cloning is talked about a bit: Plagueis had explored cloning as a method of prolonging his life, but that failed. Palpatine obviously cloned himself. The body he was inhabiting had not been finished and so began to rot when he inhabited it. Another result of his cloning project resulted in a 'perfect' clone that was named as his 'son' - this 'son' had no Force Power and was not suitable as a vessel as a result. In other words, Rey would technically be Palpatine's daughter, not his granddaughter. -Finn's Force-sensitivity is never explicitly stated but implied much more heavily. He even senses Rey coming back to life. -There is a moment where Rey mind-tricks Finn into returning to Ochi's ship on Pasaana, as Kylo Ren approaches. -Apparently Rey and Rose are good friends. greenturnedblue, Pieter Boelen, Manakin Skywalker and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 36 minutes ago, Giftheck said: Another result of his cloning project resulted in a 'perfect' clone that was named as his 'son' - this 'son' had no Force Power and was not suitable as a vessel as a result. In other words, Rey would technically be Palpatine's daughter, not his granddaughter. Sounds like a copout. I feel like Palps would just throw him into the meatgrinder, not let him go out into the Galaxy to do whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Holko said: Sounds like a copout. I feel like Palps would just throw him into the meatgrinder, not let him go out into the Galaxy to do whatever. He might have found some small use for him. Goodness knows what, beyond Stormtrooper target practice, but I agree: he wouldn't have been left alive for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 It would all be a whole lot simpler if he was just banking on the whole dyad thing from the start instead of only realising it last minute after the kill me-don't kill me-kill her-I need her to kill me whatever. Have him feel this clone has the capacity to create part of a dyad in the future or something. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Um in the film...the actor that played Rey's father did not resemble Ian mcdiarmird at all. And we got a middle aged Palpatine in phantom menace... Clone? Fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,892 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said: Um in the film...the actor that played Rey's father did not resemble Ian mcdiarmird at all. And we got a middle aged Palpatine in phantom menace... Clone? Fake. Deformed clone perhaps? Like the Bad Batch in the Clone Wars? 🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Left overs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,658 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 52 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Deformed clone perhaps? Like the Bad Batch in the Clone Wars? 🤷♂️ Makes more sense than the "Rey is a clone made from Luke's hand" theory going around for a while. Did the word "clone" completely change its meaning while I napped? Manakin Skywalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 IQs dropped sharply. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,892 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 To be fair, the average theory-obsessed Star Wars uber-fan on social media has the IQ of a potato. Pieter Boelen and The Illustrious Jerry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said: Um in the film...the actor that played Rey's father did not resemble Ian mcdiarmird at all. And we got a middle aged Palpatine in phantom menace... Clone? Fake. I know, right. The whole 'Palpatine had a son' thing is ridiculous. It should've been Rey was born of the force - like Anakin and we would've had Palpatine trying to sap her life force. Not all this bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 7 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said: Um in the film...the actor that played Rey's father did not resemble Ian mcdiarmird at all. And we got a middle aged Palpatine in phantom menace... Clone? Fake. The book says 'non-identical'. It's a cop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 My god.... Just CGI a deaged Ian into the film... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,892 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 5 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said: My god.... Just CGI a deaged Ian into the film... They probably didn't even know he was going to be a clone when they filmed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 32 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: They probably didn't even know he was going to be a clone when they filmed it. Im 100% sure they didnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mstrox 6,651 Posted March 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted March 5, 2020 Sheeev The Illustrious Jerry, Bofur01, Giftheck and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 I applaud the chain-smoking, alcoholic, sleep deprived writer of the novel for piecing together all this shit, but instead of unraveling the mess of the film, it seems so tedious now as to create more questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 Palpatines failed clone...sounds better than biological son...and they should have made it in the film. What were they thinking when they wrote the film....?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 13 hours ago, mstrox said: Sheeev Too obscure. Nobody knows what you're talking about 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said: Palpatines failed clone...sounds better than biological son...and they should have made it in the film. What were they thinking when they wrote the film....?? "Thinking"? Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 I'm disappointed and shocked by the decision to retcon Palpatine's fucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo 297 Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 I was hoping we'd get a graphic novel showing him clapping those cheeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Creature and make-up effects supervisor on the Oracle: Quote “That was a character that was designed very early on in the day. Jake Lunt [Davies], who’s one of my concept designers, we were all playing around with this idea and talking about it and he did this drawing and J.J. saw it and went, ‘That is amazing’. It was one of those moments where it was like, ‘This has to be in the movie.’ So we actually did build it and we took it to a place called Black Park in the UK, which is close to Pinewood Studios, where we shot it in a lake on location, and that sequence exists. Unfortunately it didn’t make it to the movie story, plot-wise, etc. It was a fully practical character shot in a location, and it is amazing.” “I hope that we can maybe bring that back in some way shape or form on the TV series [The Mandalorian] or that we can revisit that character in some way, because it was a haunting image and a very unusual image. But one which I think was incredibly Star Wars. So yeah, somewhere there’s footage of that.” “I think it maybe was too lengthy an explanation for something that [Abrams] was able to explain in the movie much quicker, eventually. J.J.’s movies move very quickly don’t they, and it was all part of Kylo Ren’s journey and I think he just felt that there was too much time being spent on something which he explained much quicker. So that’s all it was, really. Runtime is always my biggest fear on any movie. So much of what we do, so much of what we shoot—and I’m sure this is the same for every department—you invest so much time and love in it and you hope it’ll make the final cut, but it doesn’t always do that because the movie would be four hours long. Which would be great! (laughs).” (https://collider.com/rise-of-skywalker-eye-of-webbish-bog-scene-was-filmed-why-it-was-cut/) Time... because there was so much other esential stuff that didn't waste time at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 I would also prefer a 4 hour runtime over a film feeling rushed with important explanations downright skipped over. That being said, it sounds to me like they generated enough creative content for several movies. Can't all fit it in one. Some focus sure helps. Would indeed be nice too see all that good unused content make its way into future content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Four hours?! Thank you, Bride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 5 hours ago, Pieter Boelen said: I would also prefer a 4 hour runtime over a film feeling rushed with important explanations downright skipped over. I agree, but the four-hour runtime was clearly said in jest. Besides, assembly cuts of films often run extremly long, and have (by design) little bearing on the length of the final film. Its not unheard for for an assembly to a two-hour-ish movie being nearly four hours long. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,892 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 I wish he would have worded that differently, because now for the next several months we'll be hearing from BS articles and YouTube videos about how "there's a 4-hour cut of TROS!!!" Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 7 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said: I wish he would have worded that differently, because now for the next several months we'll be hearing from BS articles and YouTube videos about how "there's a 4-hour cut of TROS!!!" There probably is. Or was. Not that we're going to get to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 On 12/12/2019 at 2:07 AM, Mattris said: She will never be a Jedi, nor did she ever want to be one. On 12/12/2019 at 2:47 AM, Mattris said: Anyone who thinks the trilogy to end the Star Wars Saga will feature a 'nobody from nowhere' who saves the day and takes the Skywalker name - or anything of the sort - will be proven wildly misguided. Trust me, JJ and Lucasfilm know better. Like the Emperor, JJ has something special planned. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 21 minutes ago, SilverTrumpet said: lol Giftheck and Manakin Skywalker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Bumped for amazing, in-depth theatrical analysis indeed, the likes of which have never been witnessed before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 Jay linked this among others in the Dune thread and somehow I ended up on that amazing prediction and just had to share! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 On 19/09/2021 at 2:22 AM, Giftheck said: Bumped for amazing, in-depth theatrical analysis indeed, the likes of which have never been witnessed before! No need to bump this thread. I suggest reading that other one. On 19/09/2021 at 9:01 AM, SilverTrumpet said: Jay linked this among others in the Dune thread and somehow I ended up on that amazing prediction and just had to share! I stand by my statements. Rey was not 'a nobody'. She was revealed to have been a blood relative of Emperor Palpatine. Yes, she took the Skywalker name, but that doesn't change reality, which is more harsh than most can, as of yet, wrap their minds around. At no point during TFA or TLJ did Rey express that she wanted to become a Jedi. Luke gave her lessons to explain why the Jedi Order should end - not how to be a Jedi. In order to designate Rey as a Jedi at the end of TROS, one would have to define what is required to be a Jedi. Is studying/following the sacred Jedi texts and building a lightsaber enough? Perhaps killing a Sith Master who wanted to be killed earns her an honorary title. Anyone who thinks that the Sequel Trilogy concluded the Star Wars Saga... well, see above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 You know I didn't bump this thread, right? I literally took the piss out of the post that did. And for a single word response, no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chen G. 3,949 Posted September 27, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 27, 2021 Oh, its that time of year again. ins, Manakin Skywalker, Brando and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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