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The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread


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1 minute ago, Chen G. said:

Yeah.

 

I mean, at least until Kathleen Kennedy goes "well, George Lucas originally intended for there to be twelve films" (which is technically true) and embarks on a fourth "Skywalker" trilogy. But I sure won't be watching that.

 

I'm semi-officially done with the Star Wars franchise. If Rian does a trilogy I will certainly check out the first one based on his work for TLJ.

 

Without a Williams score watching a new SW film is not a given.

Just now, Chen G. said:

Really, it should have just stayed at six films, haphazard though some of them may be.

 

Disagree.

There's nothing in the sequel trilogy thats worse than anything we've seen before.

 

Whether they are necessary is another thing 

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No it should have been left as a six film saga with as many spin offs as they wanted. There’s a complete story in 1-6. Less so with 1-9 as the final three feel tacked on, retread they OT to a large degree, and basically end exactly where it ended in 1983. From a story point of view the ST is entirely pointless but entertaining in many places. 

Just now, publicist said:

I will refrain from this one, even with JW. Till it's on Netflix...oh wait, I have to subscribe to Disney+...waving goodbye to J.J.!!


I am thrilled with the fact I will never ever have to see another JJ Abrams film again. 

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5 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

There's nothing in the sequel trilogy thats worse than anything we've seen before.

 

I wasn't saying that: I rather liked the sequel trilogy thus far.

 

 I was saying this:

 

5 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Whether they are necessary is another thing 

 

and this:

 

1 minute ago, Bilbo said:

No it should have been left as a six film saga with as many spin offs as they wanted. There’s a complete story in 1-6. Less so with 1-9.

 

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"The studio has made a lot of money, and they can afford to lose some." - Irvin Thalberg.

 

Disney could have done just fine producing spinoffs that slot in between the existing episodes a-la Rogue One (which is really Episode 3.5). Their pretending to fulfill George Lucas' wishes for there to be nine films is especially misleading, as clearly any idea George Lucas may have had for a sequel trilogy was abandoned within the earliest days of working on Return of the Jedi.

 

 Besides, since when are we above bitching and moaning about the studio making money off of needless sequels?! Why is this studio and this franchise getting a free pass?

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Well I just got out of the cinema. It’s not great, a bit of a mess really, but there are enough moments to make it an enjoyable film. It’s probably not as bad as the RT score suggests.

 

This is what happens when you have different writing and directing teams and let them do whatever they want with no clear end game..

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3 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Finn is suddenly Force Sensitive.

 

Yeah, what was up with that? I wonder if it was part of a larger subplot that got cut. Maybe it has to do with what Finn wanted to say while the gang is falling in the quicksands? 

“¯\_(ツ)_/¯“

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6 minutes ago, Laserschwert said:

Looks like I missed that bit. Where was it mentioned he's force-sensitive?

 

Here you go:

 

Quote

On Pasaana, Finn instantly knows it's Kylo Ren who is flying toward Rey.

On Exegol, Finn is able to tell which Star Destroyer (out of hundreds if not more) is the one that got designated to navigate the Empire's fleet. Jannah asks him how he knows. He looks at her and says that he feels it.

When Rey dies after destroying Palpatine, Finn instantly knows she died and sighs out her name in distress. Jannah, behind him, ofcourse does not understand why Finn does this.

Perhaps this is what Finn has been trying to tell Rey? That he can feel the Force?

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/eck92y/evidence_in_the_movie_that_points_to_finn_being/

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5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

This is an incorrect way of thinking. 

So instead of going forward where TLJ left off, Lucasfilm and JJ made the decision that they needed to steer it in another direction, the film obviously suffers from it, and it's still Rian Johnson's fault?

 

TLJ is still the film with the most character development for all the new characters. TROS does nothing with Finn and Poe in this regard.

 

I still think TLJ doesn't fit. I don't hate it, but I have some serious issues with it, both on its own and in context with the other films. It's well directed, well shot, and does some things beautifully, including lots of character stuff. It's also littered with funny moments which more often than not just seem silly, rather like Spaceballs, and undermine the overall "serious" core of the film. It's also, despite its core story being concise and rather focused, very uneven. But what matters more in context is that in TFA, what JJA succeeded at was to re-open the universe, restore its soul and atmosphere from the OT, and introduce a few exciting new characters. The second half was very unoriginal and flat, story-wise, but based on the atmosphere and characters it had established by then, it still had an emotional arc. And it seemed to me then (and still does) that its main point was to set up the new trilogy, establish a foundation, build a set of characters and mysteries that could then be explored in the following movies and led to an exciting climax. All very much in the standard SW vein, and hardly original, but that wasn't the point. Then TLJ came along and built on that, developed the characters further and took them places, but it did so by basically toppling the tower JJA had built, to "subvert the formula", but without leaving anything else to build on. Within the film, it came through on its theme of failure and redemption, but at the end, all the mysteries and loose threads of TFA were done, and there were no new ones. And in that context, I think ROTS did reasonably well to tie the three films together and lead the saga to a conclusion without completely retconning TLJ. Its story could probably have worked much better had it not been thrown into one single 140 minute film, but I don't see how TLJ left it much choice (except that it should have been longer, leaving more time to focus on stuff).

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1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

The second half was very unoriginal and flat, story-wise, but based on the atmosphere and characters it had established by then, it still had an emotional arc. And it seemed to me then (and still does) that its main point was to set up the new trilogy, establish a foundation, build a set of characters and mysteries that could then be explored in the following movies and led to an exciting climax. 

 

I disagree to the extent that as soon as the *new* death star was introduced (plus the inevitable story beats following its introduction), the whole thing fell apart. It revealed itself as a well-made but dickless corporate blockbuster. 

 

No i'm the last guy having much of an agenda with SW movies - i watch them and forget about them - but just going by the palpable sense that finally something *except* simplistic story beats happened in TLJ i still would give it a thumbs up, it has a vision - shitty as it may be, in parts, and i agree about the forced humour - and runs with it. For me, that's what cinema is about in its best sense. The pedantic listing of loose ends and plot or character holes doesn't get you far in that respect, because i rather take these than an onslaught of fan service like more Palpatine (yikes!) or beloved character cameosTM. Even Lucas' prequels had a vision, it was just undermined by his bad moviemaking.

 

In the end, Abrams probably was right in regards to both fans and Disney shareholders: his kind of moviemaking does please more people and there is a recipe to construct such stuff in a safe, corporate way. Still, the pipe dream of a new trilogy both cleverly written and respectful of certain 'galaxy rules' shouldn't be too much to ask for, even in the late 2010's. 

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Finally, TLJ had two major weaknesses in the storytelling:

 

- The tension between Ben and Rey is palpable in the movie, but it could have gone a little bit further 

- John Williams gave us a wonderfull musical hint about the true identity of Snoke... but they should have given us more clues, not necessarily of a link with Palpatine, but a thing about the clones. 

 

Ah and can you all stop to be negative? It seems nobody understood what this trilogy was all about, and yet now, it’s very clear.

 

Destiny... the end... the beginning... the repeating circle...

 

Mission accomplished.

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I'm about to tune out of all these STAR WARS threads now, but one more question before I go: Who are the remaining characters from the OT at the end of TROS (alive, not as 'force ghosts' or whatever)?

 

I can think of C-3PO, R2-D2, Wedge, Chewie, Lando, Wicket...who else? I'm thinking primarily of those you can see in the film, not those who may be alive elsewhere in the galaxy that weren't in the film.

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I thought it was flawed but enjoyable and didn't think it retconned major things from The Last Jedi. J.J. Abrams packed a lot of closure in this movie (enough for two movies), and I liked the vocal cameos from the PT and the animated shows.

 

But all the characters except Rey and Kylo are essentially plot devices, even the repurposed Carrie Fisher footage. Lando Calrissian? Plot device. Han Solo cameo? Plot device. Emperor Palpatine? Plot device. Finn/Rose romance? Essentially forgotten.

 

I was disappointed with Williams' score.  I was hoping for something like The Force Awakens when J.J. Abrams came back for ROS, but not the case here. He went through a lot of his original themes but I can't remember any of the new ones he did for this one.

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I didn’t like it but I probably need to see it again. The only interesting parts were those that involved the OT characters aside from the Emperor... who was hammy as ever. More importantly, I could barely hear Williams music for most of it due to overbearing SFX. 😡

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5 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said:

Does this movie have schlock value?

 

It's not a bad movie, but it plays it safely by the end.

 

J.J. Abrams did the best he could, considering 1) Carrie Fisher had died nine months before he came on to write and direct, and 2) the sequel trilogy's villain was already killed off.

 

1 hour ago, Þekþiþm said:

Han's back?!

 

Only in one scene. His character's still dead BTW.

 

Harrison Ford is not even credited in the end title scroll, that's how they kept his cameo secret.

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9 minutes ago, Matt C said:

2) the sequel trilogy's villain was already killed off.

 

Snoke was such a garbage, low hanging fruit, emperor-like villain.  I loved what Johnson did in TLJ by setting up Kylo Ren to be the villain....but yeah.....

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Star Wars has simply become too big to please everyone.  I'm just here for the scores.  :lurk:

 

( i actually enjoy all the films, they're fun, and there's always something nice to take away from each one of them)

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24 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

The kiss is dumb, thankfully Ben dies right after.

 

Poor Rey, first guy she kisses drops dead!

She kissed Finn in the first movie...but I guess Disney decided that ship would have been too hot. 

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9 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said:

She becomes every dead Jedi? Reminds me of when Rose Tyler became super duper powerful.

 

It's her fault the Doctor had to regenerate and ditched the leather jacket 

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52 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

Snoke was such a garbage, low hanging fruit, emperor-like villain.  I loved what Johnson did in TLJ by setting up Kylo Ren to be the villain....but yeah.....

 

Palpatine was mostly toothless in this movie. 

 

Andy Serkis imbued genuine menace with Snoke... yeah, he was Emperor-lite but better than McDiarmid was here.

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4 minutes ago, Matt C said:

 

Palpatine was mostly toothless in this movie. 

 

Andy Serkis imbued genuine menace with Snoke... yeah, he was Emperor-lite but better than McDiarmid was here.

I agree. His scenes in TLJ were much more gripping that any Palpatine scene in TROS. Plus the set design and cinematography was also much better.

 

One of most enticing prospects I had for this movie was seeing Kylo Ren's reign as Supreme Chancellor. It lasted like 2 minutes in this 

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