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The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread


Jay
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I chuckled and eyerolled when the crawl announced Palpatine was back, and we saw Kylo hook up with him 2 minutes later.

 

No build up, no explanation, no attempt at subtlety. 

 

I enjoyed the rest of the film a lot, on that level. 

 

Big dumb JJ movie.

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So does R2 do anything in this piece of crap? He’s always been my favorite. I’ve read the leaks and 3PO has a bigger role, but it seems that yet again R2 is barely in it.

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22 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Wait so who was Palpatine's child? Rey's mother or her father? Also who would bang Palpatine?!

 
I’m sure Disney will publish a novel or comic to explain these minor details.

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25 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Wait so who was Palpatine's child? Rey's mother or her father? Also who would bang Palpatine?!

 

Rey's father.

 

Kylo explicitly tells her my mother was Vader's daughter, your father was Palpatine's son.

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What I'm curious in is as to why it's inherently more objectionable than Anakin apparently being a creation of the Force himself (I get the retcon angle of it). I'll admit I know very little about what's no longer canon (or even much of the lore to begin with), so someone might be able to properly explain it.

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I was so reluctant to go see this movie that my friend offered to pay for the ticket, so I would go with him. 

And I thought, well, it's Christmas, why not. The old boy scout motto, one good deed a day. 

 

So, here it goes. 

Over the years, I've become more of a casual fan than you can imagine, and the thought of something in these films not being in line with some book or expanded universe, or some details from previous films, I really don't care. And I've read all spoilers, so, I thought it can't possibly be upsetting or off putting watching this film. 

 

Well, I was wrong. 

I read all the time about the return of Palpatine, and how it doesn't make any sense, and how that's the movie's biggest flaw. Dude, that's the least of this film's problems. 

I have no problem whatsoever with Palpatine returning as the main villain; it's hardly unheard-of in movies that the bad guy makes a sudden and miraculous return. 

The way it is handled, though, kills the movie dead from the very first scene. 

 

All this movie has to offer in terms of surprise reveals is two things:

 

1. Emperor is behind everything 

2. Rey is Emperor's granddaughter 

 

And even though it's been known for a while now that Palpatine is back, you want to build suspense for his screen return. You want to make the audience get giddy for it, let the on screen characters that they identify with have a journey of discovery. 

But nah, fuck all that. 

From the very opening crawl on, everyone knows Palpatine is back, and even worse, he's on screen within the first 4 minutes. 

Same thing with the reveal of Rey being his granddaughter. It's handled piss poorly, to the point of comedy. People laughed. You don't have THREE moments in the film where Rey is told she's a Palpatine. You build to ONE. 

Yoda didn't casually drop the bomb on Luke that Vader was his father, before ESB's climax, did he? 

 

The very first scene in ROS with Kylo Ren traveling to Exegol to get the order to kill Rey should have been at the end of The Last Jedi. That would even have saved part of how useless that movie actually was. 

 

Then the other plot elements of this film, my god. So, Luke was trying to find Exegol himself? While his sister is fighting a fight against a puppet First Order? Am I being led to believe that Luke knew Palpatine was behind everything, and just let his sister fight a futile fight against the overwhelming First Order, that would have been better spent searching for Palpatine in the first place? 

 

The casting of the film, or better the typecasting, is terrible, too. Daisy Ridley is horribly miscast as the Jedi with integrity and purity, who's struggling with the dark side, but never really. She's a female version of Anakin, a person that you can see turning evil. 

Adam Driver is far better suited to portray that, and the movie would have been infinitely better, had he been the one Skywalker that rises, since he's actually a Skywalker, you know. 

That a blood Palpatine is just grabbing the Skywalker name by choice is moronic to no end. 

 

And can we please not gloss over the astounding fact that this movie is casting Emperor Palpatine’s SON, to appear in a throwaway flashback for 5 seconds, and he appears to be raggedy poor. How is that possible? That looks like a more interesting story than this train wreck. 

 

Adam Driver should have been the emerging hero, fighting a Sith Rey in the end. Kylo Ren has a hero's journey. Rey doesn't have anything resembling even remotely a hero's journey. 

 

Rey fails her Jedi training with Leia. But is rewarded with Luke's lightsabre. 

Gets Chewy captured, gets Chewy quasi killed. 

Abandons her friends to go on her own every chance she gets. 

Fails to retrieve Vader's Wayfinder from Kylo Ren. 

Fails to beat Kylo Ren. Needs Leia's sacrifice to beat him. 

Rey in the final fight with Ren, succumbs to her hate, retreats to the island in resignation and failure. Gets rewarded with Leia's lightsabre and Luke's X-Wing anyway. 

Fails to confront Palpatine, needs all the past Jedi's support, dies in the process anyway. 

 

And what is this stupid "Jedi training" Rey does with Leia anyway? How is it helping anyone when she runs obstacle courses over logs in the woods? 

She can't deflect shots from her training ball, isn't terribly accurate firing blaster shots in the speeder chase, yet, she's supposedly the Rebellion's "best fighter"? 

 

And despite her failures in pretty much every aspect of the film, she can fucking levitate with ease, force jump, shoot force lightning, and stop big spaceships midair using the force. Unless she needs to cross water or get to somewhere higher up. Then she can't use any of these things, and needs to steer a broken boat, or climb her way up through the Death Star ruins. 

Can you imagine Superman, who can fly, climbing up a ravine? 

 

Oh, Rey can heal just by touching, too. But only nasty desert snakes and Sith lords. Poe, however, needs to pull through to the very end of the film with his blaster shot wound. 

 

That Poe. He probably deserves it, being a loser and all. Your male hero lead in this film, everyone. Can't even get the girl in the end. 

I find that too many people are too superficial in thinking "movie is made by idiots". It's not. The characterizations in this film make sense, when you shift the perspective and look at whose film this is, and who it's aimed at. 

Mrs. Kennedy tweeted # The Force Is Female. And that normal Star Wars fans aren't the target group anymore. 

 

This movie in its character writing is made, thoroughly, from a female point of view, from a standpoint of gender swapping, and is supposed to cater to the new generation of entitled girls, or at very least to a feminist's point of view of what they should be like. 

 

Just about any guy in this film gets emasculated. 

Finn is the shy guy who's secretly in love, and doesn't have the balls to say it, and is content with just being "there for her". 

Poe depicts the stereotype of how feminists see men: reckless, hothead, irrational, slightly sleazy, too high an opinion of himself, and, of course, gives in to failure in the end. Or how Rey puts it "You're a difficult man". 

Kylo Ren personifies the fantasy of the woman turning the intriguing bad boy into a good guy, simply by her love and strong will, and who in the end would do anything for her. 

The whole theater groaned at their kiss. 

Add to that the fat rebel guy with the beard that gets emasculated by Leia mid film. 

 

For fuck's sake, the Kijimi girl ASKS Poe to come with her to start a life. And then when Poe is a damn general, and they win the war, and she comes to her rescue, and he wants to get back together - nah. You just want sex dude. LOL Fuck off. 

The only two people that are allowed to mate, or have just a moment of flirting, are Lando and Jannah, the black people among themselves. 

 

The only strong and rational minded people in this film are all women. Leia, Rey, Jannah, Maz. The guys are all unstable or pussies.

Leia Jedi Master is so incredibly cringe. There was a line in there about her giving Luke her lightsabre, to pass on to whoever, to finish her task. What task? 

 

Rey is feeding directly into the mindset of modern Disney princesses. Is way in over her head, doesn't amount to jack shit, can't cope with emotions, gets everything handed to her, still fails when shit gets hard, gets bailed out by other people. 

And in the end takes everything she didn't earn because she feels she "deserves it". 

 

Speaking of winning the war, how on earth did the rebels win it? Are you really implying that a fleet of hundreds of star destroyers are sitting ducks just because the flag ship has its antenna deactivated? That's shit. 

A bunch of broken down spaceships collected by Lando aren't destroying a few hundred star destroyers. Bullshit. 

 

There are countless other things that don't make a lick of sense. 

 

And old John Williams, well... Let me just say how incredibly lazy it is to end the movie with a rehash of TFA. That's right, lazy. 

In general, I feel aside from Rise Of Skywalker theme, there isn't a real identity there. Too many moments that would be bypassing moments in the prequel scores. I don't feel the vibrancy in this score. The orchestrations all sound so same to me. It's something I noticed in the last two scores, too, to a lesser extent. There are setpieces dearly missing. It feels like everything is either heavy brass or heavy strings, and little in between. 

I appreciate the score being mixed almost comically loud. 

 

I've read there is too much exposition in the film. No. There isn't nearly enough to make sense. 

From planet to planet, chasing one MacGuffin, then accidentally finding another MacGuffin, destroying one MacGuffin, but not really... 

 

I don't see the "fan service" in this film. There is none. 

 

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9 hours ago, Thor said:

I'm about to tune out of all these STAR WARS threads now, but one more question before I go: Who are the remaining characters from the OT at the end of TROS (alive, not as 'force ghosts' or whatever)?

 

I can think of C-3PO, R2-D2, Wedge, Chewie, Lando, Wicket...who else? I'm thinking primarily of those you can see in the film, not those who may be alive elsewhere in the galaxy that weren't in the film.

 

Anyone? I've only seen the movie once, while some of you have seen it multiple times already, so presumably you've been able to catch some that I didn't.

 

I find this interesting, because if they're making another film or TV show in the future, post-TROS, it would be interesting to see which OT character would continue the legacy. I'm guessing Anthony Daniels will be in all of these untill the day he dies.

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Holy shit, I can't believe John Williams cameoed in this! After you see him, it took me a couple seconds and then I was like... Wait a second... Took them 9 films but they finally got him in a Star Wars film!

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7 hours ago, Stefancos said:

The kiss is dumb, thankfully Ben dies right after.

 

Poor Rey, first guy she kisses drops dead!

 

Am I really the only one to think they just showed up that history is repeating when Ben resurrects Rey, like Plagueis (do you finally understand his name was Skywalker at least?) once resurrected Shmi? It’s a repeating circle!

 

I think the average 2nd generation fan of SW (you all) are simply too dumb to understand the Slywalker Saga in it’s whole!  

 

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39 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

Am I really the only one to think they just showed up that history is repeating when Ben resurrects Rey, like Plagueis (do you finally understand his name was Skywalker at least?) once resurrected Shmi? It’s a repeating circle!

 

I think the average 2nd generation fan of SW (you all) are simply too dumb to understand the Slywalker Saga in it’s whole!

 

 

 

Its nice that you found a unique take of the sequel trilogy you're happy with.

 

Do you need to insult other people with it though?

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Small point. Luke's lightsaber that Rey used in TFA and TLJ was destroyed in the latter film. So I guess Rey made or was given a new one for TROS?

Luke in TLJ also has a lightsaber in his final confrontation with Kylo. And its not the green ROTJ one.

 

They had a Jedi academy going for a while, so I guess they had plenty?

 

 

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So Palpatine wanted Rey to kill him so that he can take over her body or whatever.... But when she does kill him later that doesn't happen? Besides, if that's his plan why does he ask Kylo to kill her? And how can she stops his Force lightning that almost obliterates all the fleet? I mean, lightsabers are cool and all but surely not that powerful?

 

Karol

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14 minutes ago, crocodile said:

So Palpatine wanted Rey to kill him so that he can take over her body or whatever....

 

No, he wanted her to kill him so she would become a Sith. Because his body was broken and paralyzed i guess (a horrible commentary on disabled people)

 

But once he got restored, he wanted just to kill Rey and take power himself.

 

14 minutes ago, crocodile said:

And how can she stops his Force lightning that almost obliterates all the fleet? I mean, lightsabers are cool and all but surely not that powerful?

 

The Force?

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58 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Small point. Luke's lightsaber that Rey used in TFA and TLJ was destroyed in the latter film. So I guess Rey made or was given a new one for TROS?

Luke in TLJ also has a lightsaber in his final confrontation with Kylo. And its not the green ROTJ one.

 

They had a Jedi academy going for a while, so I guess they had plenty?

 

 

Luke's force projection should've been an indicator to you that it was a force projection - as we'd seen it destroyed earlier. 

 

The broken saber was later repaired sometime between this film and the last:

 

 

star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-rey-lightsaber-repaired.jpg

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22 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Fans didn't like the character of Rose Tico and her actress Kelly Marie Tran? Okay, let's invent some whatever reason to keep her out of the main plot ("General Leia needs me here to do some research, yada yada..."), despite the strong bond she formed with Finn on the last movie.

 

That bothered me quite a bit, because it was so obviously a concession to all the women hating xenophobic "fans" who couldn't cope with her playing a major role in TLJ.

 

22 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The revelation that Rey's parents were nobodies that sold her for booze didn't sit well with fans? No problem, she is now actually Palpatine's granddaughter!

 

That one I believe should be blamed (if you want to assign blame) on TLJ. JJA clearly envisioned *some* sort of arc based on Rey being abandoned and having some sort of blood heritage - much of TFA's mysteries are based on that. Johnson killed direct way to build on that, so they had to come up with a more convoluted construction instead, and cram it all into a single film. Given the circumstances, it could have been worse.

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2 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

That one I believe should be blamed (if you want to assign blame) on TLJ. JJA clearly envisioned *some* sort of arc based on Rey being abandoned and having some sort of blood heritage - much of TFA's mysteries are based on that. Johnson killed direct way to build on that, so they had to come up with a more convoluted construction instead, and cram it all into a single film. Given the circumstances, it could have been worse.

 

Yeah, I guess the fault is mostly LFL's for their lack of planning. I mean, Johnson was chosen as director for TLJ even before TFA opened. So, why didn't they sat with the directors and screenwriters and said:

 

"People, the basic outline for this trilogy is that Rey will be Palpatine's granddaughter while Kylo Ren will be Vader's grandson. Rey will be tempted to the dark side throughout the movies, but eventually will be able to resist it, become a fully formed and powerful Jedi, while Kylo will redeem himself. You can do what you want on your movies, as long as they stay truth to this basically outline. Okay? Everyone agrees? So, let's get to work!"

 

That's how the MCU prospered. LFL, on the other hand, let Abrams and Johnson do whatever they want on their movies, until they regretted it thanks to social media, and tried to course correct on the final movie.

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12 minutes ago, Jay said:

Hey let's discuss the pros and cons of the film without insulting people who feel differently than you do about it.  Thanks!

Is that comment directed at me? I was responding to a question about Luke's lightsaber!

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About the use of Leia on the movie...

 

Well, do you remember when the South Park creators fought with Isaac Hayes, who voiced the Chef character, because the show did a parody of his religion, the Scientology? Then, Hayes left the show, and the creators decided to use some of his previously recorded dialogue for the Chef to create a story which would explain his absence. It's S10E01 The Return of the Chef.

 

So, the kids' interactions with the Chef on that episode was quite similar to the other characters interacting with Leia on this movie. You can feel they were molding their dialogue to fit with Leia's previously recorded lines.

 

The results are not great, and her scenes with the other characters are very weird. However, given the awful and tragic circunstances, I'm willing to "forgive" the movie for this. At the very least, they managed to give Leia a decent ending (and playing a role on her son's redemption, much like her brother played a role on their father's redemption), than just writing her off like "General Leia was on that ship that was exploded by the First Order".

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I thought the Fisher scenes looked pretty good.  I was expecting something weird like the young Leia from RO.  It was obvious the dialogue was written around Carrie's sound bites but it wasn't jarring to me.  I think they did they best they could use existing footage and it was very respectful to the late actress.  However, I would have liked to see a funeral for Leia (in the same vain as Padme's) instead of the characters hovering over her body covered with a white sheet.

 

What really looked odd to me were the young faces of Luke and Leia - not at all natural or real looking.  Their fencing outfits were odd, too.

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20 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Yeah, there really isn't anything they could have done. Considering the fact that Carrie Fisher actually died years ago.

 

 

 

But there is. 

They could have started the opening crawl with Leia's death in some attack or other, and started the actual movie with her funeral, and go from there. 

They didn't have to incorporate her in the movie in such a clumsy and detracting way. 

Carrie Fisher died. Nobody would have blamed them for restructuring the plot a bit to accommodate that. 

 

There is a significant amount of love missing in this whole trilogy. 

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