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The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread


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9 hours ago, Bespin said:

@Edmilson FIXED!
image.png
 

Here's how the Force made an Improved Skywalker 2.0.

 

This time there will be no Palpatine to fuck his head.


Skywalker Saga CLOSED!

 

Yeah, but...throughout the entire trilogy, we didn't see Rey and Kylo sharing, you know, an intimate moment? Enjoying some sexy time? Copulating? Marvin Gaye and getting it on? Adult naptime? Putting the lightsaber inside the Mynock cave? Or, as we say here where I live, "drowning the goose"? 

 

As fas I know, other Force users aside from Palpy don't have the power of generating actual life, and since Kylo died without showing Rey his other "lightsaber" (a friend of mine left the theater laughing that Ben died when he was almost getting lucky), she couldn't be pregnant. 

 

So yeah, whether you consider Rey an actual Skywalker or just a Palpatine (or neither), if she follows the old Jedi way of chastity, the lineage will die anyway. On the other hand, Ben spent three movies trying to convice her to abandon the old ways, so... ;)

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21 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

But...but...you can see Ben is lying at one point!

 

It actually wouldn't have been too difficult for Lucas to re-edit Ben's account in a way that frames it as a lie. Maybe trimming it slightly, interrupting it with a quick flashback, adding ominous music in the right spot and/or artificially elongating the silence before he elaborates on Vader's betrayal. But no, he was too busy making Greedo shoot first, you see.

 

Part of the issue is that Ben's account isn't just different in that Vader and Anakin are different people, but rather its different in the entire chain of events, as compared to the way its explained in Return of the Jedi and/or explored in the prequel trilogy.

 

If Ben is to be believed, he and Anakin grew up together as natives of Tatooine and volunteered (against the better judgement of Owen, appearantly) to join the Jedi who were fighting in the Clone Wars which were raging somewhere around Aldeeran (as opposed to all over the Galaxy), and were admitted into the order together.

 

Ben then took Vader as an apprentice, but he secretly betrayed them and - after the Empire was already well-established - murdered Luke's father in exile, while Ben and an infant Luke lived obscurely on Tatooine. The timeline was also clearly longer, or characters like Han or the Imperial officers wouldn't treat the Jedi as though they were the stuff of legend.

 

That's totally different than what we're told in Return of the Jedi and shown in the prequel trilogy.

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Saw the film today. As with the other two I am disappointed in the direction the story arc was given. This trilogy has spawned some great scenes an some interesting characters... But that's it. Well this film has some two or three great emotional scenes that I also liked.

 

I hate how it ruins everything the rebels achieved at the time of rotj. Its sad. 

 

And I will say it again...they could have made a mix of the expanded universe, without changing the character story arcs and it would be better. This trilogy story even goes beyond bantam books era territory "sillyness". (Let's see we have Palpatine reborn, trying to transfer his spirit to a younger body, the son of Palpatine, more superweapons, more sith acolytes, secret fleets and imperial factions...) And since 90% of the population had not read those books they would be unspoiled anyway. And you can make great movies based on books. But well, this trilogy should have been made in the 90s with the ot cast younger. 

 

I'm glad Williams lived enough to score all of them though. 

 

 

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On 12/19/2019 at 12:51 PM, publicist said:

I'm not talking about *my* preference but a game plan for a multi-million $ franchise.

 

Of course I would have gladly handed it over to some guys high on Oxycodon just to annoy freaks like Mattriss.

 

Why do you think I'm a "freak", @publicist? If you're willing to hand over a multi-million-dollar franchise to druggies "just to annoy" people, what does that say about you?

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32 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

 

Yeah, but...throughout the entire trilogy, we didn't see Rey and Kylo sharing, you know, an intimate moment? Enjoying some sexy time?

 

I agree TLJ was a little weak about this... but rewatch the movie... you can't deny there's a "tension" between the two... and Rey is very uncomfortable when Kylo is showing half naked (I was too!) :P...

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Like I say earlier... if nobody, except me, understood the latest trilogy, it's maybe because it was badly executed, from a certain point of view.

 

But... how do you make a cult movie otherwise?

 

I remember in 1980, when I first saw "Episode V" at the beginning of ESB... I realized.... ok, it's a complex story... EEEEW... "I need to talk about it with my friends!"

 

THIS... IS... STAR WARS.

 

:yes:

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3 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Like I say earlier... if nobody, except me, understood the latest trilogy, it's maybe because it was badly executed, from a certain point of view.

 

But... how do you make a cult movie otherwise?

 

I remember in 1980, when I first saw "Episode V" I realized.... ok, it's a complex story... EEEEW... I need to talk about it with my friends!

 

THIS... IS... STAR WARS.

 

:yes:


Have you seen TROS yet?

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6 minutes ago, John said:


Have you seen TROS yet?

 

Of course not yet, why? Everything is on Wookiepedia already.

 

What a stupid question!

 

I'm 45, I was raised with SW, it's in my ADN.

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@Chen G. No,The Rise of Skywalker did not live up to my expectation... not in the slightest. I thought the film was incredibly convoluted and ultimately, underwhelming... certainly not a fitting installment to mark the end of the Saga. I doubt I will ever watch it again. That being said, I will enjoy John Williams' excellent score.

 

How do you think the film compared to my treatment posted on page 7? And do you still doubt that John Williams was told of Rey's origin to compose her theme accordingly?

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13 minutes ago, Mattris said:

How do you think the film compared to my treatment posted on page 7? And do you still doubt that John Williams was told of Rey's origin to compose her theme accordingly?

 

I'll be brutally honest and say both are convoluted and not what I wanted from this film or this trilogy, but I'll give your idea that its just that: an idea. The Rise of Skywalker is a mish-mash of many, many ideas, and they don't sit together very well within a two-hour movie.

 

Just to compare, here's what I would have done with these films: Rey isn't anyone's descendant, she's just a new force user (surely, those are born all the time or the Jedi order will not have sustained itself) who forms a balance with a dark Force user in Kylo Ren, who kills his father Han Solo and overthrows the supreme leader Snoke. Rey and Kylo don't have a romantic interest in each other.

 

Rey goes to Luke for training, but he eventually convinces her that the only way to end the destructive cycle of the Sith/Jedi struggle is for the Jedi to end.  Rey takes the Jedi Texts and uses them to uncover a secret to do with the very concept of The Force, tied to an artefact hidden inside some ancient temple in some remote part of the Galaxy.

 

If obtained by Kylo, it could give him powers that would spell triumph for the First Order, but in Rey's hands it could be used to prevent people all around the galaxy from tapping into the Force alltogether, disabling ones' ability to use it either for good or for evil. She and Kylo race to this artefact, with Rey still conflicted about the idea of killing off The Force.  Eventually, she decides to go through with it, creating a catacylsm that puts an end to Force users and robs Kylo Ren of his power, leaving him a miserable, powerless wreck who is imprisoned.

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29 minutes ago, Bespin said:

 

Of course not yet, why? Everything is on Wookiepedia already.

 

What a stupid question!

 

I'm 45, I was raised with SW, it's in my ADN.


Reading a wiki page is not the same as watching the film. You’ve been going on these grand rants and tangents about the film and trilogy as a whole when you haven’t even seen TROS yet. 
 

You did the same thing in the Mandalorian channel on the Discord. 

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You talk about the Baby Yoda show?  He will die in the Jedi Academy Jedi Massacre, by the hands of Ren Knights. What do you expect?

 

This series is ridiculous.

 

EDIT: Hello @Holko, by the way.  I hope you have fun on your Discord Channel!

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7 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

 

It's not about liking evil characters. That's fine because they aren't real. My point is that within the story itself, when a character loves an evil character. That is screwed up. Rey kissing or even remotely liking Ben is utterly sickening.

Ben was conflicted all along. Yes, he murdered people, yes he tortured Rey, but he wasn't totally within the grip of evil. What makes Ben's redemption work for me is this uncertainty he's had since the beginning and when he finally comes to terms with who he is and what he's done, talking with his father and throwing away his saber (a callback to Luke's refusal to fight in RotJ), it finally felt as if his purpose was clear. It's not sickening to me, moreso that it's the love and understanding of two people brought together against their will and coming together to confront true evil. 

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1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

That, in Star Wars, Vader wasn't meant to be Luke's dad and that this is readily apparent

 

There's no way to tell that.  If Lucas had planned on Vader being Luke's father from the very beginning there's nothing that would need to be changed in ANH.  I surely didn't know that the father revelation wasn't planned in advance until I heard that much later.

 

 

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

If Ben is to be believed, he and Anakin grew up together as natives of Tatooine and volunteered (against the better judgement of Owen, appearantly) to join the Jedi who were fighting in the Clone Wars which were raging somewhere around Aldeeran (as opposed to all over the Galaxy), and were admitted into the order together.

 

None of that is implied IMO.

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2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

I have heard people say "well, the pause that Ben gives before he goes into the telling of Darth Vader's treachery is telling that there's more to this". No, its not. That's just people's nostalgia talking. In terms of continuity that twist is idiotic, and is as much a piece of shameless revision of a previous film as anything done in The Rise of Skywalker.

 

Pretty much everything Obi-Wan says in the first half of Star Wars is utterly confused and wrong. He clearly lost part of his mind during his exile.

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About the Rey/Palpatine connection...

 

Rey was 20 years old by the beginning of the Sequel Trilogy. This means she was born 10 years after the Battle of Endor, when the Emperor and Vader were presumed dead. 

 

Now, let's suppose her father was 25 when she was born. So, he was 15 when his daddy Sheev was "killed" on the Battle of Endor and 11 when the first Death Star blew up on the Battle of Yavin.

 

Therefore, Rey's father was born during the heyday of the Empire, when its power was unparalleled and the Rebellion was still a distant dream.

 

But why was he born?

 

During TESB, we know that Vader is planning to overthrow the Emperor, with the help of his son Luke. I read that some recent comics shows that the seeds of the mistrust between Vader and the Emperor were seed long before that, so Palpatine may have conceived another apprentice to eventually replace Vader.

 

By Darth Bane's Rule of Two, there can always be only two Sith, a Master and an Apprentice. Then, the apprentice kills the master and replaces him, taking an apprentice of his own.

 

But during TROS we know that Palpatine's ultimate plan is to live and reign forever as Emperor. He thwarted the Rule of Two by actually killing his apprentices one by one. He betrayed Maul and manipulated Anakin to kill Darth Tyrannus/Count Dooku. He didn't want to be replaced, he used his apprentices to further his goals and then disposed them when they were no longer useful. 

 

So, by his own experiences, he knew Vader would eventually betray him (or that he, Palpatine, would have to get rid of Vader), and probably decided to generate another apprentice, like he did with Anakin.

 

Still, this doesn't answer WHO Rey's father was. Was he a powerful Force wielder like Anakin? But, if so, why Vader/Yoda/Obi-Wan/other living Jedi didn't sensed him?

 

I'm more inclined to believe that the Force skipped a generation and went for Rey instead of her father. So, Palpy saw that his new experience was a failure, disowned his son, who then went into hiding. During the Galactic Civil War, Palpy used another strategy: to turn Luke to the dark side, making him kill Vader and become his new Sith apprentice.

 

We have to remember that, by The Last Jedi, Rey's parents were known by Kylo as two drunken useless idiots, willing to sell their own daughter for booze. I guess Rey's father didn't had any power at all and, lived a simple life on Jakku, disguising as a drunk to fool the Emperor. 

 

But what do you guys think?

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29 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Ben says they were drunken nobodies, but I always thought he was just lying to Rey, as he too, didn't know the truth.

 

 

He was just telling her what he knew by then, before he met the Emperor. I guess he probably sent some stormtroopers to Jakku to interview people there about her parents, and found out they were just drunken imbeciles. Of course, they were just playing a role, to fool the Emperor's followers. Or maybe they were indeed drunken imbeciles, who knows.

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I'm not reading some fucking bullshit posted by some anonymous Star Wars fans after they read the Visual Dictionary and felt enlightened. 

27 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Geez, read the articles on Wookiepedia and stop bugging us, mercy!

 

(Yes, there's an article about Palpatine's son.)

 

;)

 

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The one bit of fan service I enjoyed in ROS is when Rey hears the voices of past Jedi encouraging her to get up (including the voice actors from "Clone Wars" and "Star Wars Rebels"). It was well done in a movie that's saturated with it.

 

And another big crime is that the sequel trilogy not only wastes Daisy Ridley's talents, but fucking Oscar Isaac as well. If anything, I was disappointed Poe didn't hook up with the Felicity chick at the end.

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34 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

Seems like Sidious is the only one that's seen any action.

 

Theoretically, only Anakin and Padmé and Leia and Han had any fun with each other, and reproduced the normal way.

 

But now I have images of Palpy and Shmi meeting on a bar on Tattooeine, having some friendly and sexy chat, drinking some wine, then going upstairs, putting in some smooth space jazz (like a Cantina Band version of Careless Whisper), and then, you know, him showing her his habilities with the "lightsaber".

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1 hour ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

Does anyone hook up with anyone in these movies? Seems like Sidious is the only one that's seen any action.

I would imagine it's more likely Sidious seduced someone with the force and raped whomever he chose at the time, and not consenting partners.

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Besides the negative critical assessment and the reports of TLJ erasure, I also had the Rey=Palpatine thing spoilt for me before I saw the movie (note to self: turn off phone push notifications for Discord when you know people will be having spoiler discussion).  So I was already pretty prepared for what we were gonna get.

 

The movie was fine.  It was a pretty relentless plot machine.  It didn’t have a lot of heart - the places where it did were in the margins and those were the best parts.  Kylo Ren’s big goony post-kiss smile.  The interactions between Poe and Zorri.  Jannah and Lando at the end.  I liked all the C-3PO stuff - they used him really well in this.  Babu Frick and D-O were fun.  Overall, I think there was a REALLY good Star Wars movie in there, and that movie was like half an hour longer.

 

The Leia stuff is super stilted, but that was to be expected.


I wish R2’d had something meaningful to do in this one, or in the whole trilogy (beyond showing Luke the ANH hologram in TLJ).  I wish we’d gotten an Anakin force ghost scene beyond the voiceover.  I was pumped to hear Ahsoka in there though - guess that means she bites it before the sequel trilogy.  The Han Solo thing was fine, I suppose.

 

Oh, and the Wedge cameo could have been really affecting, but it ended up just being a pnbbbbbbbt.  In fact, that massive fleet didn’t mean much of anything - they didn’t do a very good job of making us care WHO showed up.

 

Reading through this thread, it was pretty incredible how right that reddit leak was.  And somebody had a leaked shot of Kylo and Rey facing Palpatine together in the final act, all the way back in October!

 

I usually don’t care about the novelizations and guidebooks, but I am interested to see more explanation about how Palpatine survived/was revived and how/when/why he made Snoke out of old Serkis parts.
 

I’ll catch this one again on video.  At this moment, SW movie rankings....

 

ESB

TLJ

TFA

RO

ROJ

ANH

Solo

TROS

TCW

TPM

ROTS

AOTC

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35 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

I think the last thing people expected to be thinking about as a result of this flick is Palpatine having sex, but then here we are. 

 

I always thought he was a bit... uh... you know

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So did I. I consider this a retcon. Palpatine obviously preferred the company of young men. If any females were ever around him that he wasn't trying to kill, they'd be weird bald alien chicks or slave women fanning him with leaves and feeding him apples.

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Oh, so we’re into ranking now? Sure:

 

The Empire Strikes Back ***** out of *****

Star Wars ****1/2

The Force Awakens ****

The Last Jedi ***1/2

Revenge of the Sith ***1/2

Return of the Jedi ***1/2

The Phantom Menace ***

The Rise of Skywalker **1/5

Attack of the Clones **

 

5 hours ago, mstrox said:

At this moment, SW movie rankings....

 

 

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The post new Star Wars tradition of the ranking.  Ok here’s mine.

 

Star Wars

The Empire Strikes Back

Return of the Jedi

The Last Jedi
Rogue One

The Force Awakens

The Phantom Menace

Revenge of the Sith

Attack of the Clones

Solo

The Rise of Skywalker

 

If not for the Mandalorian, 2018 and 19 have been a rough couple of years for the franchise.  Genuinely my two least favorite movies released in a row.

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My favorite film of all time:

Return of the Jedi

 

Not bad at all:

Star Wars

The Empire Strikes Back

The Phantom Menace

Revenge of the Sith 

 

 

They should’ve made this before TFA:

Rogue One

The New Obi-Wan Show

 

Worse than GOT Season 8:

The Force: Oh No, Looks Like There's ANOTHER Death Star

Padme Fucks A Creepy Teenager Who Massacres Innocent Sand People

The First Spaceballs Made By Disney

The Rise of Palpatine Fucks Memes

Solo Who?

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Lmao this movie really does have to be seen to be believed. Random thoughts...

 

I felt like I was watching this at 1.5x speed. And also reminded me of when I skim through scenes of a movie I’ve seen a million times. 

 

There was a certain point midway through the film, maybe around the Death Star fight, where I suddenly thought “Wait a minute....LANDO CALRISSIAN was in this movie!” He feels like such a bizarre non-sequitur. Then he shows up again at the base and starts reminiscing about the old times. I can’t remember if he was responding to a question anybody asked? He seemed senile.

 

I basically figured I was gonna see a movie that at least went through the motions about the trio bonding and learning and growing together and shit. I never understood people who say Force Awakens and Last Jedi have no story. Occasionally I would wonder if I was giving them a pass and I could just get into them easier because they’re Star Wars and everything, but this definitely convinced me otherwise. Love or hate em, those play like pretty normal movies. This reminded me of a Spielberg quote where he said he watches a lot of contemporary films that lack a beginning-middle-end and rather just have a middle for 2 hours then stop. That is sort of what this is. I also feel like this is kinda what Martin Scorsese was talking about, but it’s a particularly incompetent case. This is one of those movies that just reminded me that some movies legitimately fail to meet some pretty basic standards. 

 

And I didn’t even hate it! It’s not miserable or anything. It’s just perplexing. I felt like I was “observing” it.

 

The score was...alright? It made me feel kinda bad for Johnny. There’s not much to score here. It’s gotta be his least consequential blockbuster film score in context. The fact that so much of it is musically fulfilling....he kept his dignity. Well, aside from the cameo maybe :lol: I’m glad he did that.

 

The little monkey guy was great. Adam Driver’s Ben Solo energy was pretty interesting. The Carrie Fisher stuff was about as good as it could have been, probably was worth doing it that way. I still like Daisy Ridley’s acting. The worm/snake thing RULED, that is the best monster in this trilogy. Maybe since the Rancor?? I fucking loved that thing.

 

I have nothing to say about the plot twists or various changes, additions, subtractions other than I don’t really feel like this is any more conflicting with Last Jedi than it is with Force Awakens. How it fits in with the trilogy and saga is really the least of this movie’s problems. I went in fully expecting that people were overblowing the criticism like those other two but it is pretty much ass. But in kind of a pleasant way. What a wild movie. 

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