The Rise of Skywalker The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

4 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

He also killed kids (Luke's other students),

 

Didn't they all become Knights of Ren?

[Chen G. 3,943]

Some clearly did.

 

In The Force Awakens, you can see a flashback of Kylo killing a padawan, and him and his knights standing amidst a field of dead bodies in what's meant to be Ach-To. Han also says this: "one boy, an apprentice, turned against him, destroyed it all."  In The Last Jedi, Luke clearly reaffirms that "he left with a handful of my students and slaughtered the rest."

 

8 minutes ago, Demodex said:

He stood by and watched a planet be destroyed. 

 

So did Kylo.

 

In terms of onscreen acts of brutality, initiated by the villain, against established characters - Kylo Ren is the bigger bad guy without even breaking a sweat.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He was also far more powerful.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Vader murdered children with his laser sword.

[Chen G. 3,943]

3 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

He was also far more powerful.

 

which would have been great if Episode IX would have stuck to the traejectory set by The Last Jedi wherein Kylo was set to be the villain of the last chapter. But alas...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Alas....

[Chen G. 3,943]

39 minutes ago, Bespin said:

It was planned from the start.

 

Quote

Kathleen Kennedy says Palpatine's return was in the blueprint for a long time. "We had not landed on exactly how we might do that, but it was always [to be in Episode IX]."

 

 

She says it was in the blueprint "for a long time."  Never does she say it was in the blueprint since before Episode VII hit theaters: that's an interjection of the reporter.

 

Episode IX was in pre-production "for a long time", y'know.

[Bespin 8,480]

Palpatine is all the Sith!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

10 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Palpatine is all the Sith!

 

And Rey.....is... Iron Man!

[Chen G. 3,943]

Iron woman!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Too feminist!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Feminithm

[Arpy 4,145]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

Iron woman!

 

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

Too feminist!

Okay...

 

Iron!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Doesn't sound very PC. How about Iron Person?

[Sweeping Strings 2,344]

Iron Gender-Fluid. 

Just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? 
 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

  

7 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Ep 8 gave no guidance to the follower as to how to follow it. I'd argue Ep 7 atleast set up various lines to be explored in 8. Not only did Rian trample all over them - he provided none of his own. Nobody had any idea at the end of 8 where the story could go. We knew at the end of Ep5 atleast something about what to expect. We knew at the end of Ep2 atleast something about what to expect. We knew absolutely nothing about what was going to happen in Ep 9 after Ep 8. The story had no momentum point, set up no mysteries, created no momentum or inevitability.

Hmm... I was going to disagree with you there.

But then:

 

7 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think the only option would have been - they should has asked Rian back. Saying Rian - you have put us in a corner. We don't know how to proceed. You show us the way and write the script for us. Have some skin in the game. Your name is going to be credited up on the screen on 9. So come join the fray and if there is blame - share the blame and if there is reward share the reward.

I like that idea.

 

3 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

The struggle between Rey and Kylo Ren, who's now the big bad of the trilogy instead of someone's willing thrall?

 

The decimated Resistance having to reassert itself against the First Order. Poe as the new leader after Leia's tragic death. Finn with his new found goal of actually being a Resistance member rather than pretending to be one.

 

Rey coming to terms with her relationship with the Force.

 

That combined with a new plot are all interesting things that Ep 9 could have gone with rather than sticking an old, supposedly dead character on a crane and suddenly break out FIFTEEN THOUSAND Star Destroyers and a bunch of Sith lore stuff that does little than power this films scavenger hunt.

 

Oh well.

OOOH! Well said!

[Arpy 4,145]

The Final Order:

 

One Big Mac, twenty Chicken McNuggets, one large fries, two cokes.

[mrbellamy 6,272]

7 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think the only option would have been - they should has asked Rian back. Saying Rian - you have put us in a corner. We don't know how to proceed. You show us the way and write the script for us. Have some skin in the game. Your name is going to be credited up on the screen on 9. So come join the fray and if there is blame - share the blame and if there is reward share the reward.

 

Part of the original announcement was that he'd write a story treatment for Ep 9

 

At a certain point before TLJ came out he said it was "old news" so it seems like there was maybe some truth to this originally. I would be surprised if Kennedy didn't ask him about writing/directing 9 once Trevorrow was out.

 

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

She says it was in the blueprint "for a long time."  Never does she say it was in the blueprint since before Episode VII hit theaters: that's an interjection of the reporter.

 

It wasn't an interjection, it was part of the original question! I don't know that I necessarily believe her but pre-VII is 100% what she's implying. (I never really understood why you always used to say that she looked like she was walking away as she said this either...)

 

 

[Chen G. 3,943]

It may have been his question, but its not what she answered.

 

To this day, no one involved with the production has said in no uncertain terms "Yes, we planned since Episode VII for Palpatine to return." Because that's clearly NOT the case.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

As someone noted, it couldn't possibly be the plan because it makes Ep 7 and 8 largely redundant because if the big bad was the sith lord, then the resistance was just wasting their time fighting a coffee boy like Kylo when they had much bigger fish to fry.

 

It is very obvious they just made it up as they went along. Even late in the game - after the film had been shot. There was no plan here - just a deadline.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yep.

 

None of which was a problem, till TROS was conceived.

[publicist 4,643]

Given how literal Abrams is as a director, he probably gave the writers 10 scenes he wanted to have in the picture and that's what came up.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Awesome pornstar mustache, Pub!

 

Nice cock too!

[publicist 4,643]

You should see him when he's fully grown.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Seems as though this one won't make as much as TLJ.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

8 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Didn't they all become Knights of Ren?

 

That was what we originally assumed, but it turns out they are actually part of an ancient order, so they're waaay older than Kylo.

 

If I'm not mistaken, I believe a recent comic book revealed that the KOR actually killed all of the students, and Kylo didn't kill any of them.

[Demodex 557]

I saw it again today. My random thoughts this time:

 

1.  While not perfect I still don't think this is a bad movie.  There are things that don't make sense but I seem to be forgiving of them for some reason. Maybe 10 to 20 years from now I won't be. 

 

2.  I don't see how it was possible for Lando to get a fleet that large together in such a short period of time. 

 

3. Force healing. I don't mind it except for it being the reason Ben dies?  Because he sacrifices himself for Rey?  Not a great explanation there. And for people that dislike the concept, how do you feel about Maul surviving being cut in half. That is downright stupid IMO, and a big reason I won't watch The Clone Wars. 

 

4. What did Leia even do to help turn Ben back?  I hope this is explained in a deleted scene or the novel. 

 

5. Before Episode 4, Jedi didn't disappear when they died. Since then they all do. When did Ben learn to do this?  Or even Anakin and Leia?

Makes no sense. 

[Bespin 8,480]

The Force spirits have been explained in Clone wars.  It's a training Jedi can suscribe to. 
 

• Qui Gon was killed before he could finish his training, but it's him who told Yoda about this training. Yoda was able to hear Qui Gon using meditation (the Yoda specie seems to have huuuge powa using meditation)
• Yoda followed this training (we see it in the Clone wars animated series), Obi Wan and Luke did too. Only very pure Jedis can achieve it.
• Anakin disapeared, but only few moments after his death because of his redemption, he was "saved" by Yoda and Ben.
• Ben Solo Skywalker died after his redemption while giving his life to Rey, and like Leia he was saved by the existing Force spirits, also they were the last Skywalkers on earth, the Skywalker "entity", created originally by the Force, returned to the Force.

 

Everything is explained on Wookiepedia.

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_spirit

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I had absolutely no issue with the DS9-esque fleet scene. It's just not in any way far-fetched that they spread the word and were able to mobilize a shit ton of civilian craft to fight the Emperor's fleet. It was also the best way to end it after the last movie left the rebellion almost totally annihilated. That was good writing.

[Demodex 557]

12 minutes ago, Bespin said:

Everything is explained on Wookipedia.

 

That's the problem. It should at least be mentioned in the films. 

[Bespin 8,480]

We all were confused when in 1980, ESB began with the mention "Episode V".

 

Star Wars always had this "for insiders only" side. No need to play holier than thou in 2019!

 

If you look for the answers, you'll find them.  SW always was like that from the start.

 

Thanks the maker!

[gkgyver 1,645]

58 minutes ago, Bespin said:

The Force spirits have been explained in Clone wars.  It's a training Jedi can suscribe to. 
 

• Qui Gon was killed before he could finish his training, but it's him who told Yoda about this training. Yoda was able to hear Qui Gon using meditation (the Yoda specie seems to have huuuge powa using meditation)
• Yoda followed this training (we see it in the Clone wars animated series), Obi Wan and Luke did too. Only very pure Jedis can achieve it.
• Anakin disapeared, but only few moments after his death because of his redemption, he was "saved" by Yoda and Ben.
• Ben Solo Skywalker died after his redemption while giving his life to Rey, and like Leia he was saved by the existing Force spirits, also they were the last Skywalkers on earth, the Skywalker "entity", created originally by the Force, returned to the Force.

 

Everything is explained on Wookiepedia.

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_spirit

 

Wookiepedia. Get out. The same stupid argument for movies based on books. "it's explained in the book". 

I don't give a hoot about it, give me a coherent film or don't bother me with it. 

[1977 1,743]

10 hours ago, Chen G. said:

In The Force Awakens, you can see a flashback of Kylo killing a padawan, and him and his knights standing amidst a field of dead bodies in what's meant to be Ach-To.

 

I don't think that place is meant to be Ahch-To. If Kylo had been there before surely he would know how to find it? Han tells Rey and Finn in TFA that "those who knew Luke best thought he went looking for the first Jedi temple" after he "walked away from everything". Luke also tells Rey in TLJ that he came to Ahch-To to die, he didn't say "I remained here to die".

[Chen G. 3,943]

Oh right. It wasn't Ach-To; but it was the same planet we flash-back to in The Last Jedi where Luke contemplates killing Ben.

[gkgyver 1,645]

That's another thing that's just another piece of the destruction of Luke Skywalker: 

Luke contemplates killing Ben Solo because he felt the dark deeds he would eventually do. 

But, alas, that's not how Ben Solo's story ends.

Shouldn't Luke, as a fucking Jedi Master, feel that "there's still good inside" of the future Kylo Ren, and subsequently not kill him, but rather encourage Rey to free it in him?

Instead of, you know, throwing a fit and curse all Jedi like a buffoon? 

 

Or are you telling me bloody Padme Amidala, who wasn't a Jedi in any shape or form, could sense there was still good inside of DARTH VADER on her deathbed, but LUKE SKYWALKER can't sense it in one of his students?! 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Maybe Padme had a bit of Force in her too, in more ways than one.

[Demodex 557]

I was under the impression that Padme didn't really know there was still good in Anakin, but rather refused to believe that there wasn't. I didn't get a sense that she was actually feeling it in the Force. 

[A. A. Ron 1,738]

1 hour ago, gkgyver said:

That's another thing that's just another piece of the destruction of Luke Skywalker: 

Luke contemplates killing Ben Solo because he felt the dark deeds he would eventually do. 

But, alas, that's not how Ben Solo's story ends.

Shouldn't Luke, as a fucking Jedi Master, feel that "there's still good inside" of the future Kylo Ren, and subsequently not kill him, but rather encourage Rey to free it in him?

Instead of, you know, throwing a fit and curse all Jedi like a buffoon? 

 

Or are you telling me bloody Padme Amidala, who wasn't a Jedi in any shape or form, could sense there was still good inside of DARTH VADER on her deathbed, but LUKE SKYWALKER can't sense it in one of his students?! 

 

The more I think about it, the more I realize this is truly one of my biggest problems with TLJ for me. I disagree with making Luke into a failure, but I still could have found that direction interesting if I bought into the story. Luke almost killing his nephew because of a bad feeling? I just don't buy that. It's not in character and worse, it's not in any way relatable.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Who hasn't thought of killing their nephew once?

[1977 1,743]

Does anyone know which planet the MF lightspeed jumped into that looked a bit like Coruscant (at the beginning)?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

13 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

Does anyone know which planet the MF lightspeed jumped into that looked a bit like Coruscant (at the beginning)?

 

Wasn't that Cloud City?

[1977 1,743]

Was it?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Looked like it.

[Holko 9,499]

No. It's towers on a mirror lake based on an old McQuarrie painting.

 

[crumbs 14,301]

 

Yeah, there's reflections of the Falcon and the ships if you look closely. A shame they never really dwelled long enough on all these cool designs, instead just going back to more uninteresting forest/desert/grassland planets. All the planets in that short montage look infinitely more interesting!

 

Also, the reflective planet could be the most visually confusing thing I've seen in a Star Wars movie. The absurd editing does not help.

[Arpy 4,145]

Falcon Hyperdrive reminds me of Abrams' Enterprise:

[crumbs 14,301]

Definitely very derivative.

[Arpy 4,145]

I think it was JJ's little nod to Trek!

[Mattris 416]

This reddit post bolsters the 'multiple cuts of TROS' theory that was making the rounds in the weeks leading up to the film's release. Personally, I give it some credence... and even surmised that a different version of the film would be released to the public than was shown at the premiere.

 

Release the JJ Cut!