Jump to content
Jay

The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said:

If Palpatine's plan was to transfer his soul to Rey and he also created Snoke, why was Snoke so hell-bent on killing Rey? Wouldn't there be some kind of directive to capture only?

 

I asked the same question right after seeing the film. It doesn't hold up under any serious scrutiny. JJ created a mess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what was the point of Snoke then? Why wasn't it just Palpatine's corpse from the start? He could have just done that soul transfer thing in TLJ instead of it being Snoke who dies. Palpatine tells Rey that if she assassinates his reanimated corpse, his soul would somehow transfer to her. Kylo Ren was trying to kill him at the start of the movie, so why didn't he just do the same with him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why does Snoke's voice sound so bizarre in TROS as well? Clearly they got JEJ back to voice Vader but they couldn't get Serkis to voice Snoke properly in the prologue? That was so jarring, it sounded absolutely nothing like Serkis OR Snoke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Why does Snoke's voice sound so bizarre in TROS as well? Clearly they got JEJ back to voice Vader but they couldn't get Serkis to voice Snoke properly in the prologue? That was so jarring, it sounded absolutely nothing like Serkis OR Snoke.

I thought it was Yoda. 😅

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Holko said:

Nah it's pretty close.

 

 

Mmm, still sounds totally different to me. It doesn't sound like Serkis even in angry mode.

 

EDIT: Hmm, just checked iMDB and he's credited as a voice actor on TROS, so what do I know? Clearly showing my ignorance :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TheUlyssesian said:

I think for what it's worth, ST:ID is a good film. A bit frenetic, but well done. The first one is very good though. And TFA is good. It's not like JJ is a complete doofus.

 

Ignoring his TV shows, other than the initial Trek and TFA, both of which are good, and Into Darkness and TROS, both of which I think are complete disasters, he's made:

 

- The most "meh" Mission: Impossible (Woo's film at least has a wild campiness to keep you hooked)

 

- A forgettable 80s Stephen King-Amblin hybrid nostalgiafest that will mostly be known now for predating Stranger Things

 

I'm not exactly champing at the bit to see what he does next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Disco Stu said:

 

- A forgettable 80s Stephen King-Amblin hybrid nostalgiafest that will mostly be known now for predating Stranger Things

 

The highly esteemed French film critics magazine Cahiers Du Cinema thought it was one of the 10 best films of the year. So clearly, that had its champions too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much is Abrams really to blame for all this, though? Even without all the supposed Lucasfilm fisticuffs, it's plain to see the film had too many chefs in the kitchen beyond Abrams and Terrio. Scatterbrained is what it is. It's like someone patched together fragments of multiple scripts, filmed that and then that was broken into a billion pieces and stitched back together in post production.

 

I think this film was doomed before Abrams came along to finish the trilogy, and that's just poor management. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for the Snoke/Palpatine/Kylo plot hole, I'll try to play the devil's advocate here and try to find some connective tissue on the horrible continuity between TLJ and TROS, so here's my theory.

 

Keep in mind that Palpy was aware that the whole time that Kylo was Vader's grandson and therefore his great-grandson, and Rey was his grand-daughter.

 

All right, years after his defeat on Endor and miracurously surviving (?!?), Palpy sensed the Light Side was growing again, as Luke started teaching the Jedi way first to his sister and then to his new students. This couldn't last, so when Leia got pregnant, he sensed an opportunity.

 

By influencing the life of young Ben Solo since his childhood, Sheev tried to seduce him to the Dark Side and away from the Light, but since Luke shouldn't find out about him surviving, he disguised as Snoke, a mysterious and previously unknown Dark Side practitioner. 

 

Eventually, his plan succeeded and he turned Ben Solo into Kylo Ren, who murdered Luke's Jedi students, sent the former Jedi master into depression and despair, and joined the First Order.

 

His plan was for Kylo to be, as Snoke (i.e. Palpatine) points up on TLJ: "a new Vader". But then, what happened? Kylo got defeated in an embarrassingly easy way by Rey, a girl "who has never wielded a lightsaber before", during the battle on the Starkiller base.

 

But that girl, Palpatine knew, wasn't just any girl from Jakku. She was his grand-daughter. The daughter of his son, which he created to eventually replace Vader, but then he thought it went wrong. It hasn't gone wrong, Palpatine found out, the Force just skipped a generation and went to his grand-daughter instead.

 

Even Luke was afraid of the power Rey possessed when they've met on Ahch-To (one of the few hanging thread from TLJ that went forgotten and picked up and explained by TROS).

 

So, when he and Kylo finally met on the beginning of TROS, he instructed him to find and kill Rey to eliminate the Jedi for good. But that wasn't his plan...

 

Since the battle on Starkiller Palpy knew that Rey was more powerful than Kylo, so his plan was for Kylo's continuous attempts into killing her would eventually lead to her hatred and anger of him (the paths to the dark side) making she eventually consumates her revenge for the deaths of Han and Luke and killing Kylo. Maybe Palpy was even counting that Kylo's attempts would lead to the death of another one of Rey's friends (like Poe, Finn, etc), making her hatred grows beyond her control and eventually murdering him.

 

That would, of course, lead to her eventual and inevitable fall to the dark side, then his spirit could inhabit her body.

 

Kind of what he tried to do with Luke on ROTJ.

 

The point is, Palpy spent this new trilogy, and TROS in particular, putting Kylo against Rey and vice versa. Whoever killed the other, he would win anyway.

 

Of course, he wasn't counting that Rey and Kylo would eventually fall in love with each other. In retrospect, that makes him an idiot, since it was Luke's love (of a son) for Vader that led to his defeat on Endor on the first place, but then again Rey and Kylo weren't related like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I'm really, really not on board for considering Anakin to be Palpatine's son in any way.

 

Nor, when asked recently, was Matt Martin from Lucasfilm Story Group.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lucas isn't big on subtext.  In reality, the prequels are pretty clear that Anakin was a vergence in the force, born as the chosen one.  He dabbled with the idea of making the Palpatine thing text in his ROTS script, same as, like, baby Han Solo fighting in the Clone Wars with Chewbacca, before dropping it.  Somehow/"somehow," geek culture grasped at this idea as a true piece of the story left just off the page. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the notion that Palpatine created Anakin and was therefore his father only existed in the first draft of Revenge of the Sith, before Lucas decided against it.

 

Lucas contemplated all sorts of weird ideas throughout the making of the series. In Return of the Jedi, Owen was going to be revealed as Obi-Wan's brother. For The Phantom Menace, I seem to recall at one point he wanted Boba Fett to be Anakin's young brother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's always the Disney+ series!

 

 

4 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said:

Those SW novelisations all contradict each other worse than the movies do.

 

If I recall correctly, the ESB novelization called Yoda blue, and I heard that the TFA book includes a scene of Rey and Poe meeting for the first time, which was later contraindicated by the end of TLJ.  Any other examples?  (I've only read the novelizations for SW, ESB, ROJ, and TPM).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, mstrox said:

If I recall correctly, the ESB novelization called Yoda blue, and I heard that the TFA book includes a scene of Rey and Poe meeting for the first time, which was later contraindicated by the end of TLJ.  Any other examples?  (I've only read the novelizations for SW, ESB, ROJ, and TPM).

 

Didn't the TPM novelisation explicitly portray Palpatine and Sidious as two separate guys?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1999 me might remember!  I'm sure they used the two names, depending on the scenes - as I'm sure AOTC's novelization also would.  Nobody at Lucasfilm would deny it, but they didn't outright confirm Palpatine=Sidious until the release of ROTS I think.  Did the TPM novelization have them both in the same room at the same time?

 

5 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Now I'm gonna be disappointed if I don't see Ewan McGregor make out with Joel Edgerton.  Sorry Beru, he needs to be true to himself.

 

Owen's irritation over Obi-wan in Star Wars makes a lot of sense.  Smacks of a romantic falling out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, mstrox said:

Owen's irritation over Obi-wan in Star Wars makes a lot of sense.  Smacks of a romantic falling out.

 

"That wizard's just a crazy old man"  *weeps internally*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mstrox said:

Did the TPM novelization have them both in the same room at the same time?

 

The novel is more vague than the movie. One thing the novel did to throw people off the track is that it ends with a bit about Palpatine on Naboo contemplating recent events, and then the very next section talks of Sidious on his balcony overlooking the city. The novel doesn't say the city is Coruscant, so it could just as well have been Theed on Naboo. 

 

And I'm really embarrassed I remember that. 

 

The novel Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter came out before AOTC, but the ending only makes sense if Palpatine is behind blockade of Naboo.  Basically he's given proof of plans for the blockade and then the next chapter features Maul killing the guy that have him that proof. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As all the plot leaks seemingly came out of Bad Robot (TLJ didn’t have any of these issues!) it seems clear that the reddit damage control also comes from BR just to make JJ look good. But I do think that a slightly longer version could make it a little more enjoyable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...