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The Rise of Skywalker SPOILERS ALLOWED discussion thread


Jay
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I liked the theory that the blue explosion we see in ROTJ was some sort of bizarre Sith alchemy portal, since the blue "cloud" effect is what we see when he uses it in TCW. Some sort of portal into the World Between Worlds or whatever that lets him go into the future relatively unharmed. It would still be kind of controversial, but I feel it would have explained things better and perhaps would have interwoven the CW/OT/ST a bit better. I feel someone in the storygroup should have mentioned that to JJ; or if perhaps they did maybe JJ made the stupid choice not to use that idea and instead just not explain how Palpatine returned.

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CONFIRMED: Palpatine survived by moving his spirit into a cloned body, as revealed in an excerpt from the TROS novelization:

 

"All the vials were empty of liquid save one, which was nearly depleted. Kylo peered closer. He'd seen this apparatus before, too, when he'd studied the Clone Wars as a boy. The liquid flowing into the living nightmare before him was fighting a losing battle to sustain the Emperor's putrid flesh.

 

"What could you give me?" Kylo asked. Emperor Palpatine lived, after a fashion, and Kylo could feel in his very bones that this clone body sheltered the Emperor's actual spirit. It was an imperfect vessel, though, unable to contain his immense power. It couldn't last much longer.

 

"Everything," Palpatine said. "A New Empire."

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

so we could spend more time discovering the tragic backstory of characters like Jannah™

 

Good on you for remembering her name. There's so much in the movie its hard to keep track of it all.

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1 hour ago, crumbs said:

An irrelevant detail. It's not like audiences watching the film needed to understand why a character who died 3 films earlier was suddenly alive.

 

I'm so glad JJ wisely omitted these unnecessary details so we could spend more time discovering the tragic backstory of characters like Jannah™, considering her importance in the narrative and the inspiring payoff her character arc receives.

Agreed

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Did she have anything to do with her character being written weakly? Did we say a word about her acting?

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Its not even that she's poorly written, its that her character is all but swallowed by the assault-on-the-senses that is this film's "plot" (if you can call it that).

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Further novel spoilers:

 

Palpatine forced his spirit out of his original body as he was falling down the reactor shaft (before the blue explosion) and into the unfinished clone body. He knew Vader would betray him, he just did not expect it then.

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1 hour ago, Giftheck said:

He knew Vader would betray him, he just did not expect it then.

 

That's consistent with the way the Sith have been portrayed in still-canon material since Lucas introduced the rule of two, and definitely consistent with how Palpatine and Vader's relationship has been portrayed in the canon Marvel comics.  There's no possible way of giving a satisfying answer to the idiot scenario of "Somehow Palpatine has returned," but as far as answers go, this one at least approaches acceptability.

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At least it's not stupid infinite young strong bodies like Dark Empire, where he ends up pretty much even better off than he was, it's a rotting shitty body he can't even move in, just vegetate and wait.

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36 minutes ago, Giftheck said:

Another result of his cloning project resulted in a 'perfect' clone that was named as his 'son' - this 'son' had no Force Power and was not suitable as a vessel as a result. In other words, Rey would technically be Palpatine's daughter, not his granddaughter.

Sounds like a copout. I feel like Palps would just throw him into the meatgrinder, not let him go out into the Galaxy to do whatever.

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Just now, Holko said:

Sounds like a copout. I feel like Palps would just throw him into the meatgrinder, not let him go out into the Galaxy to do whatever.

 

He might have found some small use for him. Goodness knows what, beyond Stormtrooper target practice, but I agree: he wouldn't have been left alive for no reason.

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It would all be a whole lot simpler if he was just banking on the whole dyad thing from the start instead of only realising it last minute after the kill me-don't kill me-kill her-I need her to kill me whatever. Have him feel this clone has the capacity to create part of a dyad in the future or something.

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Um in the film...the actor that played Rey's father  did not resemble Ian mcdiarmird at all. And we got a middle aged Palpatine in phantom menace...

 

Clone? Fake.

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1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Um in the film...the actor that played Rey's father  did not resemble Ian mcdiarmird at all. And we got a middle aged Palpatine in phantom menace...

 

Clone? Fake.

 

Deformed clone perhaps? Like the Bad Batch in the Clone Wars? 🤷‍♂️

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52 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Deformed clone perhaps? Like the Bad Batch in the Clone Wars? 🤷‍♂️

Makes more sense than the "Rey is a clone made from Luke's hand" theory going around for a while.  Did the word "clone" completely change its meaning while I napped?   

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2 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Um in the film...the actor that played Rey's father  did not resemble Ian mcdiarmird at all. And we got a middle aged Palpatine in phantom menace...

 

Clone? Fake.

I know, right. The whole 'Palpatine had a son' thing is ridiculous. It should've been Rey was born of the force - like Anakin and we would've had Palpatine trying to sap her life force. Not all this bullshit.

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7 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Um in the film...the actor that played Rey's father  did not resemble Ian mcdiarmird at all. And we got a middle aged Palpatine in phantom menace...

 

Clone? Fake.

The book says 'non-identical'. It's a cop out.

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32 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

They probably didn't even know he was going to be a clone when they filmed it.

Im 100% sure they didnt

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I applaud the chain-smoking, alcoholic, sleep deprived writer of the novel for piecing together all this shit, but instead of unraveling the mess of the film, it seems so tedious now as to create more questions.

 

 

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Palpatines failed clone...sounds better than biological son...and they should have made it in the film. What were they thinking when they wrote the film....??

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1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Palpatines failed clone...sounds better than biological son...and they should have made it in the film. What were they thinking when they wrote the film....??

"Thinking"? :sarcasm:

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Creature and make-up effects supervisor on the Oracle:

 

Quote

“That was a character that was designed very early on in the day. Jake Lunt [Davies], who’s one of my concept designers, we were all playing around with this idea and talking about it and he did this drawing and J.J. saw it and went, ‘That is amazing’. It was one of those moments where it was like, ‘This has to be in the movie.’ So we actually did build it and we took it to a place called Black Park in the UK, which is close to Pinewood Studios, where we shot it in a lake on location, and that sequence exists. Unfortunately it didn’t make it to the movie story, plot-wise, etc. It was a fully practical character shot in a location, and it is amazing.”

 

“I hope that we can maybe bring that back in some way shape or form on the TV series [The Mandalorian] or that we can revisit that character in some way, because it was a haunting image and a very unusual image. But one which I think was incredibly Star Wars. So yeah, somewhere there’s footage of that.”

 

“I think it maybe was too lengthy an explanation for something that [Abrams] was able to explain in the movie much quicker, eventually. J.J.’s movies move very quickly don’t they, and it was all part of Kylo Ren’s journey and I think he just felt that there was too much time being spent on something which he explained much quicker. So that’s all it was, really. Runtime is always my biggest fear on any movie. So much of what we do, so much of what we shoot—and I’m sure this is the same for every department—you invest so much time and love in it and you hope it’ll make the final cut, but it doesn’t always do that because the movie would be four hours long. Which would be great! (laughs).”

(https://collider.com/rise-of-skywalker-eye-of-webbish-bog-scene-was-filmed-why-it-was-cut/)

 

Time... because there was so much other esential stuff that didn't waste time at all.

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I would also prefer a 4 hour runtime over a film feeling rushed with important explanations downright skipped over.

 

That being said, it sounds to me like they generated enough creative content for several movies.

Can't all fit it in one. Some focus sure helps.

 

Would indeed be nice too see all that good unused content make its way into future content.

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5 hours ago, Pieter Boelen said:

I would also prefer a 4 hour runtime over a film feeling rushed with important explanations downright skipped over.

 

 

I agree, but the four-hour runtime was clearly said in jest.

 

Besides, assembly cuts of films often run extremly long, and have (by design) little bearing on the length of the final film. Its not unheard for for an assembly to a two-hour-ish movie being nearly four hours long.

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7 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

I wish he would have worded that differently, because now for the next several months we'll be hearing from BS articles and YouTube videos about how "there's a 4-hour cut of TROS!!!"

There probably is.

Or was.

 

Not that we're going to get to see it.

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  • 1 year later...
On 12/12/2019 at 2:07 AM, Mattris said:

She will never be a Jedi, nor did she ever want to be one.

 

On 12/12/2019 at 2:47 AM, Mattris said:

Anyone who thinks the trilogy to end the Star Wars Saga will feature a 'nobody from nowhere' who saves the day and takes the Skywalker name - or anything of the sort - will be proven wildly misguided. Trust me, JJ and Lucasfilm know better. Like the Emperor, JJ has something special planned. 

 

lol

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On 19/09/2021 at 2:22 AM, Giftheck said:

Bumped for amazing, in-depth theatrical analysis indeed, the likes of which have never been witnessed before!

 

No need to bump this thread. I suggest reading that other one.

 

On 19/09/2021 at 9:01 AM, SilverTrumpet said:

Jay linked this among others in the Dune thread and somehow I ended up on that amazing prediction and just had to share! 

 

I stand by my statements.

 

Rey was not 'a nobody'. She was revealed to have been a blood relative of Emperor Palpatine. Yes, she took the Skywalker name, but that doesn't change reality, which is more harsh than most can, as of yet, wrap their minds around.

 

At no point during TFA or TLJ  did Rey express that she wanted to become a Jedi. Luke gave her lessons to explain why the Jedi Order should end - not how to be a Jedi.

 

In order to designate Rey as a Jedi at the end of TROS, one would have to define what is required to be a Jedi. Is studying/following the sacred Jedi texts and building a lightsaber enough? Perhaps killing a Sith Master who wanted to be killed  earns her an honorary title.

 

Anyone who thinks that the Sequel Trilogy concluded the Star Wars Saga... well, see above.

 

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