The Rise of Skywalker Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker - Final Predictions (NO SPOILERS)

[1977 1,743]

13 hours ago, crumbs said:

It's my biggest issue with the pacing of TFA, that everything moves so quickly from one scene to the next that JW never gets a chance to develop long ideas

 

So a bit like A New Hope then.

[Fabulin 3,510]

56 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

So a bit like A New Hope then.

All the scenes with droids at the beginning? The long shots in the Jawa sales scene? Binary Sunset? Search for R2? Ben Kenobi's hut? Mos Isley long shot / going to the city? Falcon landing on the Death Star? Luke & Leia trapped at the chasm? Tie Fighter attack? The uninterrupted final space battle? The long awards ceremony?

[Holko 9,499]

Yeah, SW has a lot of space to breathe unlike the ADHD TFA.

[1977 1,743]

1 hour ago, First TROS March Accolyte said:

All the scenes with droids at the beginning? The long shots in the Jawa sales scene? Binary Sunset? Search for R2? Ben Kenobi's hut? Mos Isley long shot / going to the city? Falcon landing on the Death Star? Luke & Leia trapped at the chasm? Tie Fighter attack? The uninterrupted final space battle? The long awards ceremony?

 

Well at the time it's quick cut editing was seen as revolutionary. See the Empire of Dreams documentary.

[Holko 9,499]

quick editing =/= quick pacing

[Fabulin 3,510]

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[crumbs 14,302]

Not sure we can read much into that, considering he's talking about TPM anyway. 

[mstrox 6,647]

Confirmed:  The Phantom Menace has a score.

[Fabulin 3,510]

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[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

I really don't see the appeal in bringing back Duel of the Fates for TROS. It's return is completely unwarranted. I don't see the connection that makes the possibility work, and if it's simply for the sake of the bookends of the saga matching up in the musical finale, that's pretty stupid. 

 

Case in point, I'd much, much, much rather hear a brand new setpiece from Williams than hear Duel of the Fates. 

[crumbs 14,302]

I don't disagree with you but it would make no less sense than bringing it back for Yoda vs Palpatine in ROTS, and that was just lazily tracked from TPM. 

 

I guess at least ROTS mixed it alongside all the crazy new choral stuff for Anakin v Obi-Wan, so  it ultimately depends what new stuff JW wrote for TROS (like a frantic new march for Palpatine or something).

 

I think the majority of the big fight will be underscored with variations on Rey's and Ren's themes anyway, maybe just using the DOTF ostinato as a bed to carry the music. 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

Rey and Ren’s themes over the DotF ostinato would probably be pretty rad tbh.

[crumbs 14,302]

The time signature definitely works for Kylo's fanfare. Play it in your head, the two work really well together! 

[King Mark 3,625]

it's amazing we have heard little to no confirmable   score snippets or major themes 3 weeks from release

[Chen G. 3,944]

7 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said:

I really don't see the appeal in bringing back Duel of the Fates for TROS. It's return is completely unwarranted. I don't see the connection that makes the possibility work, and if it's simply for the sake of the bookends of the saga matching up in the musical finale, that's pretty stupid. 

 

In terms of musical continuity from 1-9, Duel of the Fates is quite glaring in its “absence” from the first trilogy (for obvious reasons) and the sequel trilogy.

 

It’s too memorable and more than enough prominent in the prequels so as to beg the question (if one is to take this work as a true cycle from 1 to 9, which I will say the scores manage better than the films) where it’s gone to. On paper, it would be perfectly applicable to all the climactic duels in the series.

[Remco 685]

I'd love to see DotF return for a scene near the climax of the film, but not for the actual final final duel. My prediction is that Williams wrote a new choral piece for that. 

 

Also, I'd love if he quoted Powell's chewie theme briefly at some point!! 

[King Mark 3,625]

you mean the uncredited Chewie theme he suggested to Powell

[Arpy 4,145]

1 hour ago, King Mark said:

you mean the uncredited Chewie theme he suggested to Powell

Chewie's Theme sounds like Powell through and through.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Yeah there's no mistaking that melody for any other composer.  It'd sound right at home in HTTYD.

[DominicCobb 194]

On 12/5/2019 at 3:07 PM, crumbs said:

The time signature definitely works for Kylo's fanfare. Play it in your head, the two work really well together! 

 

Almost have to wonder if they use DOTF if they end up throwing a bit of BOTH in too. I'm not musically inclined enough to say, but it sounds to me like the BOTH melody shares some DNA with Kylo's theme.

[toothless 963]

Makes me want to share again these two videos. This is yet the best Star Wars Music concert I’ve attended, and I attended many! 
 

 

 

[Fabulin 3,510]

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[MikeH 768]

Excellent performances. No need for the lighting assault! 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

On 12/5/2019 at 5:07 PM, crumbs said:

The time signature definitely works for Kylo's fanfare. Play it in your head, the two work really well together! 

 

You can do it with anything more or less

 

 

[1977 1,743]

23 hours ago, Remco said:

Also, I'd love if he quoted Powell's chewie theme briefly at some point!! 

 

I'd be very shocked if Williams did that.

[crumbs 14,302]

23 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

 

You can do it with anything more or less

 

 

 

I told you it was a malleable ostinato! You just proved my point!

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

I can do you one better.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RjpUNSSxLibscErL9yrRD-wxY-1ftofI

[MikeH 768]

9 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

You can do it with anything more or less

Schindler’s Duel is a right banger!

 

 

[Bayesian 1,359]

10 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

 

You can do it with anything more or less

 

 

That DOTF/Schindler's List mashup is the most joyously absurd thing in the world, coming on the heels of the three SW and HP themes. Such love for it, I have.

 

[DarthDementous 1,059]

21 hours ago, toothless said:

Makes me want to share again these two videos. This is yet the best Star Wars Music concert I’ve attended, and I attended many! 
 

 

 

wow! do you have any more recordings for this event, these are such perfect renditions.

the duel of fates one was so good in fact, that it has single-handedly restored my love for that piece of music. this version just sounds so powerful.

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

On 12/7/2019 at 5:16 AM, mrbellamy said:

 

You can do it with anything more or less

 

 

 

This is the exact kind of quality posting I expect from these forums in the days leading up to the final John Williams Star Wars score. Nicely done, my man. 

[toothless 963]

16 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

wow! do you have any more recordings for this event, these are such perfect renditions.

the duel of fates one was so good in fact, that it has single-handedly restored my love for that piece of music. this version just sounds so powerful.

These are not my recordings as I was too much into the music to record anything haha.

 

Sadly I’m not sure there are more videos. At one time there was BotH but I can’t seem to find it on YouTube :/ 

 

Here you can hear the rehearsals a bit :

 

 

 

[King Mark 3,625]

Has it happened before that we heard so little of the score 11 days before the movie is released?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Yes KM, it happened with both of the last films. I don't know why you can't remember that.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

When was the last time Williams was interviewed or his score was mentioned by Abrams? They couldn't have quietly rejected his score and replaced him with the trailer guys or Junkie XL, could they? 

[mrbellamy 6,272]

We had a little more with TFA. By the time the OST leaked we had the Follow Me clip, the 60 Minutes featurette, plus the Jedi Steps TV spot which was still a little speculative but basically had been confirmed to be him. At the time it felt like scraps.

 

Last Jedi we had nothing. No film clip and while The Spark had been used in the trailer there was no way to know it was from the score, I don’t recall anybody in the know claiming that, unlike Jedi Steps. Same with a couple Star Tours videos which turned out to have bits of new stuff and the TIE Fighter Attack reprisal in retrospect.

 

Right now we at least have a film clip again with actual score. God knows what’s him or not in the various commercials. And I guess Fortnite is gonna show a film clip or something? May have music. Otherwise maybe we’ll at least learn the track list in the next week.

 

38 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

When was the last time Williams was interviewed or his score was mentioned by Abrams? They couldn't have quietly rejected his score and replaced him with the trailer guys or Junkie XL, could they? 

 

I haven’t seen him mentioned anywhere yet unfortunately. I’m sure there will be a couple interviews eventually.

[crumbs 14,302]

They must hate his score and want nothing to do with him! I bet he's not even invited to the premiere. 

[Bayesian 1,359]

Disney’s been keeping everything real close to the vest... maybe that’s part of the plan and they’ve got something special planned for all the JW fans who recognize that his completion of Ep. 9 is an unparalleled feat in film scoring history. 
 

All you Disney employee lurkers, give us a clue, dammit! We know you’re monitoring these forums; no point holding back on us now!

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

 

3 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

We had a little more with TFA. By the time the OST leaked we had the Follow Me clip, the 60 Minutes featurette, plus the Jedi Steps TV spot which was still a little speculative but basically had been confirmed to be him. At the time it felt like scraps.

 

Looking back, we were swimming (comparatively) with mentions of Williams and the music leading up to TFA. In addition to what you mentioned...

 

Spoiler

 Abrams was gushing all about Williams and his involvement with TFA quite a bit in the months leading up to release like in this May 2015 Vanity Fair interview: 

Quote

Maybe the weirdest moment, which came months after production, was the first time I sat down with John Williams to show him about a half an hour of the movie. I can’t describe the feeling. All I will say is, just to state the facts of it: I am about to show John Williams 30 minutes of a Star Wars movie that he has not seen that I directed.

I mean, none of what I just said to you was ever going to happen in any form. John Williams—he was the DVD or Blu-ray of my childhood because we didn’t, of course, have VHS tapes of movies to watch when we wanted to. So I would buy John Williams soundtracks, often for movies I had not seen yet, and I would lie on the floor in my room with my headphones on listening to the soundtracks which would essentially tell me the story of the movie that I didn’t know. And I’d look at the photographs on the back of the album and I tried to read what I could about the movie—but really, I would just listen to these soundtracks. So it was an amazing thing to get to know him. But the weirdest thing was the idea that I was showing him scenes from a Star Wars movie he hadn’t seen yet. And the fact that they were scenes that I directed—that’s probably as surreal as it gets in my professional life experience.

 

Abrams gave a nice mention in August of 2015:

Quote

"He played me on the piano music he was going to conduct. It was like hearing music from the gods."

 

Boyega mentioned Williams and hearing Finn's "theme" (lol) on November 4th, 2015. 

 

Abrams mentioned him yet again in November 9th, 2015 interview: 

Quote

Oh my God! First of all, forget his talent and his achievement. As a person, he’s the guy you want to know more than anyone. He is the sweetest soul I’ve ever met. He’s like this jazzman who became one of the greatest composers of all time. He literally calls you “baby”! Like, “Hey, baby.” He calls me “J.J. Baby.” I waited all my life to meet someone who would call me that!

He works in pencil. You go to his home and listen to him play notes on the piano, and while you’re listening, you extrapolate what it will be like when you hear the melody with an orchestra. It is unforgettable, a truly miraculous thing to behold. He has every one of his scores leather-bound. I was like, “Do you mind if I …?” He goes, “No, go ahead!” So I pulled out the Jaws score, and sure enough, there it is, in pencil on paper: baaaa-bum, baaaa-bum. You’re like, “Well, that’s what he wrote!” It’s as if you’re hanging out with Mozart, who happened to score your favorite movies.

I know everybody knows this, but when you actually think about what he’s composed, it is as important as any work ever done on any of those movies. When you think about Superman and Raiders and Jaws and Close Encounters—which came out the same year as Star Wars—and then the Harry Potter movies? He is just superhuman. It’s unbelievable that he is as brilliant and yet as modest as he is. It’s just an amazing thing to get to know that guy.

 

December 7th brought confirmation of a theme for Kylo Ren. 

 

Abrams mentioned him in a December 6th, 2015 interview:

Quote

Every day as it gets closer to this movie coming out, I'm more and more excited for people to see the work this cast has done - the new and the established - and the amazing vision effects, the music that John Williams wrote. The work is the thing that has been, if anything, a salve for the anxiety.

 

 

To name the ones I can remember. 

It does seem a little weird to have gotten so few mentions of his involvement on this new film, though this recent name-drop by Daisy was fun. Not to say this points to signs of doom and gloom, but it has been a little disappointing for what will be the final Star Wars score by Williams not to be getting more fanfare. 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

7 minutes ago, Bayesian said:

All you Disney employee lurkers, give us a clue, dammit! We know you’re monitoring these forums; no point holding back on us now!

 

Alright, as the Supreme Chief President of All Media and Everything at the Walt Disney Company, I'll give you a nugget of information.....

 

Spoiler

The Droid motif from TESB will be making it's triumphant return in the form of a 19 minute suite complete with ethnic instruments such as African drums, ethnic choir, and a didgeridoo solo!

 

[crumbs 14,302]

It's weird considering how many times we've heard the story of Anthony Daniels last day on set, but no anecdotes from anything to do with Williams, his last day, or the score. I guess when everything goes smoothly at the hands of a total professional, there's not many sexy stories to relay to the press. 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

Hopefully we'll at least get some good photos from the sessions soon once Disney allows them. This score in general seems to be held closer to the chest than the previous two so hopefully that translates to some actual reason in the end product. Regardless, very anxious to find out here in less than 2 weeks. 

[crumbs 14,302]

I'm sure it was photographed and filmed to within an inch of its life, but yeah, they have been relentlessly secretive about photos of the scoring sessions ever since TFA. Probably just a blanket rule since Don went on his spoiling spree, Disney read the riot act. 

 

Musicians haven't even added the film to their credits so that shows how tight the noose is. 

[Bayesian 1,359]

Were his last name not Williams, one can only imagine what kind of career-damaging penance he would have paid for his freedom-of-speech exercise...

[Arpy 4,145]

20 minutes ago, crumbs said:

It's weird considering how many times we've heard the story of Anthony Daniels last day on set, but no anecdotes from anything to do with Williams, his last day, or the score. I guess when everything goes smoothly at the hands of a total professional, there's not many sexy stories to relay to the press. 

Yes, I want more acknowledgement from cast and crew, with clips and interviews! This is madness!

[crumbs 14,302]

They have been adding a lot of celebratory content to the SW YouTube channel over the last month with multiple featurettes a week on various aspects of the saga (the characters, the designs, etc.) so I would've thought a feature on the musical legacy culminating in IX is a likely candidate in the next few weeks. Maybe they're holding it off until after the film's release because it reveals some crucial musical detail like the final cue? Or it's something Williams specifically discusses but they want to keep it a surprise.

 

I mean, didn't some idiot put the final cue of TLJ and its transition into the end credits in a featurette that screened BEFORE the movie in some US cinemas? Sure, probably went over the head of most people, but it would've spoiled it for anyone familiar with the music of Star Wars. 

[Bayesian 1,359]

1 minute ago, crumbs said:

I mean, didn't some idiot put the final cue of TLJ and its transition into the end credits in a featurette that screened BEFORE the movie in some US cinemas? 

If that’s true, then we know exactly why we’ve seen or heard nada of the scoring of this film. You don’t make the same mistake twice if you can avoid it.

[King Mark 3,625]

12 minutes ago, crumbs said:

They have been adding a lot of celebratory content to the SW YouTube channel over the last month with multiple featurettes a week on various aspects of the saga (the characters, the designs, etc.) so I would've thought a feature on the musical legacy culminating in IX is a likely candidate in the next few weeks. Maybe they're holding it off until after the film's release because it reveals some crucial musical detail like the final cue? Or it's something Williams specifically discusses but they want to keep it a surprise.

 

 I mean this is a disgrace, almost sounds like some random uplifting crap for a  Disney Princess movie

 

I also watched The Mandalorian and it totally devoid of ANY Williams references.  Even the generic "Disney Star Wars" logo before  does not hint at Williams music. Maybe there taking a clean break from Williams after TROS

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

42 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Musicians haven't even added the film to their credits so that shows just how tight the noose is. 

 

That's because it was performed by an A.I.

 

[Bayesian 1,359]

14 minutes ago, King Mark said:

 I mean this is a disgrace, almost sounds like some random uplifting crap for a  Disney Princess movie

 

I also watched The Mandalorian and it totally devoid of ANY Williams references.  Even the generic "Disney Star Wars" logo before  does not hint at Williams music. Maybe there taking a clean break from Williams after TROS

It wouldn't surprise me if Disney goes in a very different musical direction for SW after TROS. They went with JW in 2015 because his name is legend, at least as concerns SW, and you can't leverage people's nostalgia for SW without including the man whose music accompanies 90% of the two trilogies prior to TFA. But as others have stated here, JW's sophisticated sound is anachronistic now; it finds little fit with today's directors or editing processes. Moving forward, Disney can work with the likes of LG or whoever to build whatever the film score sound of the 2020s will be, using the tools and methods that today's filmmaking encourage.

 

It's saddening, though. The era of film music I grew up with (and only began to understand and appreciate a decade ago) seems quite like it's at its end. Eventually, people may forget what real film music was, but fortunately JW long ago entered the composer pantheon and his legacy is secure. And in under two weeks, we'll get to enjoy, perhaps for the last time ever, the shared experience of a new JW blockbuster score revealed to the world. We are lucky to be here to appreciate such a thing, to be here at the end.