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The Rise of Skywalker final trailer MUSIC discussion

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10 hours ago, The Five Tones said:

I loved the trailer and was genuinely moved by it, despite the music which was possibly the biggest disappointment of these farmed out tag team scores yet. That final treatment of the main title is just wrong on levels - if you want a theme accompanied by this well-worn variation of the four-chord pop progression ("6-4-1-5") e.g. from "Zombie," "Poker Face," "Bailando" or "Building a Mystery" (lol) then write that theme. Don't ruin JW's.


I’m with @TSMefford. I thought it was fun. Almost a throwback! Those chords were all over film music ten years ago, too (Children of Dune, Narnia, the Sunshine Adagio).

 

Honestly, if I were a trailer composer, a neat re-harmonization like this would be just the kind of thing I’d be proud of. What else are they supposed to do?

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1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

Any reason why it’d be Rey’s Theme, or triumphant? I feel like it’s about as likely to be something Kamino-esque.

 

I'm just speculating and talking out of my ass (as usual). I trust Williams and his judgement on how to score these things much more than my own intuition. I just feel like, since we were robbed of the beefiest statement of Rey's theme in TLJ with the omission of that deleted scene, we'll hopefully get some rectification of that with this film and, as best I can tell, only Rey appears to be in that skiff/ship/doohickey so maybe this would be a good moment? 

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51 minutes ago, aviazn said:

I’m with @TSMefford. I thought it was fun. Almost a throwback! Those chords were all over film music ten years ago, too (Children of Dune, Narnia, the Sunshine Adagio).

 

Honestly, if I were a trailer composer, a neat re-harmonization like this would be just the kind of thing I’d be proud of. What else are they supposed to do?

Yes - those chords have been around since Let It Be and before that, in one ordering or another and they're fine for pop (or musicals like Frozen) and obviously pop is what has influenced instrumental film music in recent decades. But it's not neat, it's basic. I mean, Giacchino already went there with RO. I can't really speak to commercial concerns, not my job. I've responded to JW's music over the decades because it has largely bucked trends, not followed them, and rarely has anyone been able to follow him well. He's a far more inventive harmonist with a greater knowledge of musical vocabulary than any other composer, and honestly anyone taking on any aspect of SW scoring should at least *try* to live up to that. Not necessarily by continuing to emulate late Romantic European classical - even JW has moved on there. You could even use those four root notes but change up the harmonic rhythm, work with the inner voices, I dunno. Or use other notes or no low harmony only high brass and drums - stimulate our imaginations. I feel like I'm overstating an obvious and oft-repeated point about the loss of knowledge in film music... even JW's made the point. Yeah, it's just trailer music and it will be forgotten... but. (Never ask me a question, lol)

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1 hour ago, The Five Tones said:

But it's not neat, it's basic. I mean, Giacchino already went there with RO. I can't really speak to commercial concerns, not my job.

I hear ya. But for a trailer composer, “commercial concerns” are kind of the point, and it is their job.

 

I’m with you on the decline of the quality of film music in many respects, but I’m not convinced there was ever a golden era of original, non-JW Star Wars trailer scores. The music in the 1976 trailer isn’t much to listen to.

 

 

I’m just glad we have JW’s score to look forward to, and no trailer is going to take that away from me. :)

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10 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

I'm really looking forward to hearing whatever gloriously triumphant thematic statement of Rey's theme Williams ends up giving us for this shot. 

 

 

Yeah, Williams write something really epic and memorable for this shot... And then leaves it out of the OST, like he did with Rey's Journey on TLJ :( 

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9 hours ago, aviazn said:

I’m with you on the decline of the quality of film music in many respects, but I’m not convinced there was ever a golden era of original, non-JW Star Wars trailer scores. The music in the 1976 trailer isn’t much to listen to.

I thought you might reference that! Vivaldi's with you on the quality... somebody did a number on his "Winter" with a cheap arrangement and/or heavily slowed down tape. I don't remember that trailer, and I only heard about ANH in spring 1977 not long before seeing it and no music had my attention before the film rolled. I didn't even know the music was by "the Jaws guy." We obviously had no way to call back media like this until the late 90s - I wouldn't be surprised if a survey of SW trailers turned up lots of non-saga-like music, and I'm probably remembering some 80s VHS ads (lol) with JW's by then famous OT scores or the tracked OT scores for the prequel trailers. It's more my sense that there should be a saga standard rather than that there actually is, and I'm OK if that isn't much of a debatable point. I'm also aware that styles change with each generation, though I would argue (again) that those four chords are evidence of a plateau rather than change. I am also very glad we have JW's score to look forward to weeks from now!

 

10 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

I trust Williams and his judgement on how to score these things much more than my own intuition. I just feel like, since we were robbed of the beefiest statement of Rey's theme in TLJ with the omission of that deleted scene, we'll hopefully get some rectification of that with this film and, as best I can tell, only Rey appears to be in that skiff/ship/doohickey so maybe this would be a good moment? 

No one can second guess him! But... I'm going to guess something non-thematic to avoid the flood (no pun intended) of character associations in that moment. We had the very first instance of Rey's theme accompanying the reveal of a classic Imperial property, the Star Destroyer, in TFA, but it could well happen again as a parallel.

Ha ha, I just imagined the trumpet fanfare for the Mos Eisley reveal right there.... no.

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13 hours ago, Buttered_eggs said:

I found a really nice version of the music from the latest Star Wars trailer. Thought I would share it with you guys

 

 

Good find.  It really makes the whole trailer look better.  Now, all we need is a version with voice sound.

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18 hours ago, aviazn said:


I’m with @TSMefford. I thought it was fun. Almost a throwback! Those chords were all over film music ten years ago, too (Children of Dune, Narnia, the Sunshine Adagio).

 

Honestly, if I were a trailer composer, a neat re-harmonization like this would be just the kind of thing I’d be proud of. What else are they supposed to do?

 

Glad I'm not the only one. Honestly, I watched the trailer for the first time, that rendition started and I was like..."Well that's kind of fun, isn't it?"

 

7 hours ago, The Five Tones said:

It's more my sense that there should be a saga standard rather than that there actually is, and I'm OK if that isn't much of a debatable point.

 

Regardless of if there should be...it's a bit late to start a standard now of all times isn't it? I'm just confused as to why this trailer music is a particularly sore spot for you if so many of the other trailers had subpar music anyways.

 

So, I'm not an expert on the Star Wars scores, but if the studio came to you (Not you specifically by the way @The Five Tones I am shifting topics) and said: "We want a really special version of the Main Title to close out the final trailer." What would you give them? Is there a unique rendition of the Main Title already done for any of the past eight scores that could be tracked in?

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On 10/23/2019 at 8:23 PM, Cerebral Cortex said:

I'm really looking forward to hearing whatever gloriously triumphant thematic statement of Rey's theme Williams ends up giving us for this shot. 

 

giphy.gif

 

This remind me, my guilty pleasure hope before anyone knew anything about Episode 7 was that the Kamino theme would make a return

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2 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

there’s a variation of that theme in the TLJ score that pops up fairly frequently from what I can recall

Are you referring to the part of Luke's exile theme?

 

Here at around 2:08

 

It's a similar motif to both this part in Attack of the Clones (1:24-)

and in Minority Report (2:52-)

which is also closer to another track from Attack of the Clones (3:09)

 

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On 10/22/2019 at 5:54 PM, Datameister said:

I actually really enjoy some of the trailer music for the sequel trilogy - mainly the theatrical trailer for TFA, plus some of the variations on Williams' TFA themes in the trailers for TLJ. There's a part of my brain that responds to the rest of it, too, but it usually gets drowned out by the louder part of my brain that's tired of the formula. Modern trailer music is like fast food. We isolate the elements that we desire with our most primitive instincts - salt, fat, pop chord progressions, broad unisono horns - and then we exaggerate those elements' presence past the point of recognition. This triggers our brains' reward systems...at least until you've had so much of it that you're ready to puke and go find yourself a nice salad.

 

I thought the TLJ trailer music in particular did a really good job of working Williams music into the type of track one expects from a trailer these days without going too far into over processed nonsense. The usage of themes in those trailers is honestly pretty impressive, and really goes to show how strong and untouchable Williams's work is that the trailers use his melodies, which is practically unheard of these days for any film to not just straight up use library trailer music (the Avengers trailers using Silvestri's theme is a notable exception and even then it's just minimally used as an add on to a preexisting library track).

 

I think that first TLJ teaser in particular was very well written, and honestly I really enjoy the horn counterpoint to the Force theme here

 

 

And the parallel Rey and Force themes near the beginning is done pretty well

 

 

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On 10/23/2019 at 1:54 AM, Datameister said:

I actually really enjoy some of the trailer music for the sequel trilogy - mainly the theatrical trailer for TFA, plus some of the variations on Williams' TFA themes in the trailers for TLJ. There's a part of my brain that responds to the rest of it, too, but it usually gets drowned out by the louder part of my brain that's tired of the formula. Modern trailer music is like fast food. We isolate the elements that we desire with our most primitive instincts - salt, fat, pop chord progressions, broad unisono horns - and then we exaggerate those elements' presence past the point of recognition. This triggers our brains' reward systems...at least until you've had so much of it that you're ready to puke and go find yourself a nice salad.

 

This... although I wouldn't quite equate it to fast food in quite the same way (i.e. listening to trailer music has no ill effects on your health).

 

I often go on a full spectrum during one day, of wanting something 'grown up', and then when my brain wants a wake-up, finding the nearest piece of upbeat music. Like last night I was listening to a random Vaughan Williams EP on Spotify (goes very well with planning walks around the English countryside on google maps), but spent most of that day at work listening to some trailer music. Sometimes it's just what makes my brain tick - interesting chord progressions and a beat.

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22 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

 

This... although I wouldn't quite equate it to fast food in quite the same way (i.e. listening to trailer music has no ill effects on your health).

 

I often go on a full spectrum during one day, of wanting something 'grown up', and then when my brain wants a wake-up, finding the nearest piece of upbeat music. Like last night I was listening to a random Vaughan Williams EP on Spotify (goes very well with planning walks around the English countryside on google maps), but spent most of that day at work listening to some trailer music. Sometimes it's just what makes my brain tick - interesting chord progressions and a beat.

 

You're absolutely right that that's where the analogy breaks down.

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On 10/28/2019 at 4:09 PM, Arpy said:

Are you referring to the part of Luke's exile theme?

 

Here at around 2:08

 

It's a similar motif to both this part in Attack of the Clones (1:24-)

and in Minority Report (2:52-)

which is also closer to another track from Attack of the Clones (3:09)

 

there's a much more explicit statement of that AOTC motif in the TLJ score but I can't recall where exactly it is. I'm fairly sure it plays at some point during the island scenes and seems to be a companion to Luke's exile theme.

cool to see it linked back to other scores though!

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