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TheUlyssesian

Thomas Newman's 1917 (2019)

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24 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

I read the title as Thomas Newman (1917-2019) and had a mini heart attack

 

He's old but not THAT old.

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Newman also could have won in 2004 for Lemony Snicket over the very weak and boring Finding Neverland. Actually, that year pratically every single one of the nominated scores were better than the one that actually won: Lemony Snicket, JNH's The Village, JW's Prisoner of Azkaban and even Debney's Passion of the Christ.

 

As for Williams, he may have been nominated almost every single year since Schindler's List, but I guess the only times he was close to win were in 2005 with Memories of a Geisha and Munich and in 2011 with Tintin and War Horse. On both cases, having two nominated scores may not have been good for him, since it split the votes, much like Horner in 95 with Braveheart and Apollo 13.

 

On 2002 and 2004 he had great scores (CMIYC and PoA) but they were going against strong competitors, which ended up favoring a very dull winner. And on the other years the winner was simply "cooler" on the Academy's eyes: Titanic in 97, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon in 2000, Fellowship of the Ring in 2001, Life of Pi in 2012, Gravity in 2013, etc.

 

Finding Neverland is actually a very good score. When I was younger I used to love it.

 

He was only ever in conversation to win for Memoirs. 2011 he had no chance. The Artist had that sewn up since May of that year.

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Actually, what I think was most prejudicial for Williams on 2005 was the fact that Memoirs isn't exactly a well received movie, it has only 35% on Rotten Tomatoes, while Brokeback Mountain was one of the most acclaimed movies that year.

 

On most cases the Oscar for Original Score goes for movies that have stellar critical reception, sometimes running for the Best Picture (Black Panther, La La Land, Gravity, Life of Pi, The Social Network) and sometimes even winning the major award (The Shape of Water, Slumdog Millionaire, Return of the King). Had Memoirs been received with better criticisms and more nominations on the major categories, I guess it could have won that year.

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Since the award goes to a person, I can't imagine why wasn't it "John Williams, for combined Memoirs of Geisha and Munich"?

4 hours ago, p0llux said:

If TROS get nominated for original score, it'll probably be up against VERY well reviewed films like Thomas Newman's 1917 and Desplat's Little Women. JJ Abrams really needs to knock TROS out of the park for JW to have a chance against those other films. The elusive 6th Oscar proving to be a difficult to obtain again. Btw, I really thought Memoirs of a Geisha was gonna win in 2006. :(

Based on what could be inferred from the onslaught of promotion materials thus far, this film is going to be received well by a vast majority of viewers and critics alike. I wouldn't count it out.

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9 hours ago, First TROS March Accolyte said:

Since the award goes to a person, I can't imagine why wasn't it "John Williams, for combined Memoirs of Geisha and Munich"?

 

That's ridiculous. The award is for "Best Original Score", not "Best Original Composer".

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53 minutes ago, KK said:

 

That's ridiculous. The award is for "Best Original Score", not "Best Original Composer".

Let's suppose we are dealing with a situation, where one composer created two scores of exactly equal quality, so it is irrelevant for the voters, which one is  chosen. As a result the votes are randomly split in half. If this group, which could have voted for either of the scores, is a majority, the award belongs to the composer of the two.

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http://filmmusicreporter.com/2019/11/27/1917-soundtrack-details/

 

Quote

1. 1917
2. Up the Down Trench
3. Gehenna
4. A Scrap of Ribbon
5. The Night Window
6. The Boche
7. Tripwire
8. A Bit of Tin
9. Lockhouse
10. Blake and Schofield
11. Milk
12. Ecoust-Saint-Mein
13. Les Arbres
14. Englander
15. The Rapids
16. Croisilles Wood
17. Sixteen Hundred Men
18. Mentions in Dispatches
19. Come Back to Us

 

That's a relatively short number of tracks for a Newman album, suggesting that he's gone for more of a listening experience .

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18 hours ago, First TROS March Accolyte said:

Since the award goes to a person, I can't imagine why wasn't it "John Williams, for combined Memoirs of Geisha and Munich"?

 

 

The award goes to a movie for the work of a person or persons.

 

During the nomination process, members nominate MOVIES for Best Original Score, NOT persons.

 

On the final voting ballot, what is printed are NOT the names of persons but the names of MOVIES.

 

The nomination is inextricable from a movie - it cannot be a person award. It is a an award of excellence awarded to a MOVIE FOR THIS PERSON'S WORK.

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On 11/27/2019 at 4:41 AM, Edmilson said:

Actually, what I think was most prejudicial for Williams on 2005 was the fact that Memoirs isn't exactly a well received movie, it has only 35% on Rotten Tomatoes, while Brokeback Mountain was one of the most acclaimed movies that year.

 

On most cases the Oscar for Original Score goes for movies that have stellar critical reception, sometimes running for the Best Picture (Black Panther, La La Land, Gravity, Life of Pi, The Social Network) and sometimes even winning the major award (The Shape of Water, Slumdog Millionaire, Return of the King). Had Memoirs been received with better criticisms and more nominations on the major categories, I guess it could have won that year.

 

Some years ago, I did some ruminating on the Oscars. It follows below, but please keep in mind it only goes up to 2008...it's not completely watertight, and probably needs re-considering the last, well, decade, but still... :D

 

+ + + +

 

Unrelated: I've been thinking about the Oscars again. And came up with something by which to "categorise" the winners, if you want. So from 1985 onwards (with * denoting a "non-US" composer; overlap between categories is possible):

 

The Big Sprawling Epic
1985 Out of Africa (also won BP)
1987 The Last Emperor (won BP)
1990 Dances with Wolves (won BP)
1993 Schindler's List (won BP)
1996 The English Patient (won BP) *
1997 Titanic (won BP)
2001 The Fellowship of the Ring
2003 The Return of the King (won BP)

 

Nice and undemanding
1996 Emma * (only win)
1998 Life is Beautiful *
1998 Shakespeare in Love (won BP) *
2004 Finding Neverland * (only win)
2007 Atonement *

 

WTF? or "We had to give the film something"
1988 The Milagro Beanfield War (don't know anything about that one, so I'm placing it here...the film's only nomination and win)
1995 Il Postino * (only win)
1997 The Full Monty * (only win)
2000 Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon * (doesn't really fit in here, I know...)
2005 Brokeback Mountain *
2006 Babel * (only win)

 

Heavily music-related movie
1986 'Round Midnight (only win)
1999 The Red Violin (the film's only nomination and win)
2002 Frida (lotsa songs)

 

Disney
1989 The Little Mermaid
1991 Beauty and the Beast
1992 Aladdin
1994 The Lion King
1995 Pocahontas

 

So what does this tell us? (A) Good for you if you are a foreign-born composer. Or, at least, have a foreign-sounding name. (B) Scores for animated movies won't win, unless they're Disney or done by Alan Menken. (C) It helps immensely if your picture is also winning Best Picture; at least, when it comes to epic films. Fellowship of the Ring is the only score in the field that apparently won on its own merits. (D) It also helps if your (possibly heavily nominated) movie wins nothing else; AMPAS member will feel sorry for it and at least award it "Best Score". (E) Did I mention you should have a foreign-sounding name?

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I was seduced by the long cues but it's mostly the same old atmo Newman - with some unwelcome and very blunt trailer music allusions in the driving parts of i. e. 'Devons to Mackenzie'. 'Night Window' and 'Ending' seem to be the only pieces i want to keep. Better than nothing. An award, not so much.

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On 11/28/2019 at 10:24 PM, Kühni said:

with * denoting a "non-US" composer


1985 Out of Africa (also won BP)
1987 The Last Emperor (won BP)
1990 Dances with Wolves (won BP)
2001 The Fellowship of the Ring
2003 The Return of the King (won BP)

 

These are all non-American composers btw (though David Byrne has lived most of his life in the US)

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40 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

B) It sounds better in context

 

 

This score seems to be more on that style "it's no easy listening on album, but it serves the movie very well" that critics these days simpy adore. Just just look at Dunkirk for an example. So, even though it won't be pleasant to listen, I fully expect it to be on the awards talk.

 

War movies these days have to sound like Dunkirk and not Saving Private Ryan or Pearl Harbor.

 

57 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

You thought Thomas Newman was 102 years old? :P

 

Well, Alfred Newman was 17 on 1917, and I don't know if condoms were popular back then  :lol:

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I like it. The gold maybe sparse, but even that is actually some of Newman's most inspired work in years. This film clearly asked him to be rather invested in some capacity.

 

I even dig some of the more atmospheric work (though Dunkirk and Zimmer are clearly a template). Though I do wish it had some more of the exuberance of his Jarhead days:

 

 

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16 hours ago, crocodile said:

Night Window is very nice. Wish I could hear an entire score from Thomas Newman that sounds like this one cue.

 

Karol

Yup. 

 

But alas as a whole the FYC selection didn't impress me much. Night Window and Ending might find their way into my collection.

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On 11/26/2019 at 9:47 PM, Not Mr. Big said:

I read the title as Thomas Newman (1917-2019) and had a mini heart attack

 

On 12/5/2019 at 6:50 PM, King Mark said:

I thought this was a RIP thread

 

34 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said:

1917-2019? I didn't know he was so old.

 

Double Cremeritis! 

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So I saw the movie. If Newman wins an Oscar, it will because of Night Window.

 

That is one the standout sequences of the year. There is no dialog. Little to no SFX. The music is the only thing on the soundtrack and mixed very loudly and most of all - it has the cinematography achievement of the year. It is a shadow play of light and darkness by Roger Deakins - memorable images for 3 minutes straight and Newman gets to score it all.

 

If he wins - I will daresay that literally anyone could have scored that scene and won an Oscar.

 

For what's it worth the score is nice and works better in context but besides Night Window and a couple of stand out cues nothing to write home about. I might not even nominate it if it were up to me. Nice work for a nice film that does its thing. 

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Marcy and I had planned on seeing this this weekend, only to find out it doesn't play anywhere around us until January 10th.  D'oh!

 

Is the FYC version of Night Window any different from the OST version?

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Not that I can detect. The OST is not in order obviously. I would say most of the music on either presentation is intact just the FYC is chronological.

 

Big tracks from memory - 

 

These are the soaring thematic highlights - Major components of the main theme are developed in these cues

 

Gehenna (OST 2) = Fly by/German Trench (FYC 3)

1917 (OST 1) = Tobacco Tin (FYC 8)

Night Window (OST 5) = Night Window (FYC 10)

Sixteen Hundred Men (OST 16) = From Devons to Mackinse (FYC 16)

Come back to us (OST 18) = Ending (FYC 17)

 

These are the action and suspense highlights

 

Up the Down Trench (OST 2) = Trench to the Yorks (FYC 2)

Engalnder (OST 14) = Clock Chime to River Jump (FYC 13)

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I really loved this movie and score.  It was beautiful and effective.  Fantastic performances and directing.  I highly recommend it and suggest seeing it in a large theater.  I'm a sucker for introspective war films.  I don't know if Sam Mendes will win the oscar but absolutely will be nominated as Thomas Newman will too. 

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I bought the FYC off eBay a few days ago. If it’s lossless (fingers crossed) is there anyone willing and/or capable of combining it with the OST to make an expanded edit? I still have not seen the film. 

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I have no idea. Aren’t his scores always messy and non chronological? I’ve seen many expanded Newman edits in the past based on OST+FYC combo. 

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On 1/4/2020 at 7:25 AM, Jay said:

Isn't the OST already complete? 

All the FYC is on the OST.  There is some music that is in neither.  The song for example and the trailer version of the song which is an orchestral song.

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36 minutes ago, karelm said:

All the FYC is on the OST.  There is some music that is in neither.  The song for example and the trailer version of the song which is an orchestral song.

 

The song is a miss. It should have been on the OST. A lot of people are going to buy the soundtrack hoping for that song and they won't find it.

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1 hour ago, Jerry said:

Does anyone have a chronological order of the FYC and the OST put together?

 

I haven't made a more complete comparison of both FYC and OST, but just looking at the duration of some of the tracks, and considering the FYC is chronological, one can put almost all of the OST on chronological order:

 

FYC 01. Meadow / First Trench (4:21) = OST 10. Blake and Schofield (4:21)

FYC 02. Trench to Yorks (6:19) = 02. Up the Down Trench (6:19)

FYC 03. Fly By / German Trench (3:35) = OST 03. Gehenna (3:35)

FYC 04. Trip Wire (3:22) = OST 06. The Boche (3:22)

FYC 05. Buried / Run from Bunker (1:41) = OST 07. Tripwire (1:41)

FYC 06. Quarry to Orchard (6:30) = OST 04. A Scrap of Ribbon (6:30)

FYC 07. First Truck (2:03) = OST 08. A Bit of Tin (2:03)

FYC 08. Tobacco Tin (1:17) = OST 01. 1917 (1:17)

FYC 09. Bridge to Lockhouse (4:04) = OST 09. Lockhouse (4:04)

FYC 10. Night Window (3:41) = OST 05. The Night Window (3:41)

FYC 11. Cathedral Chase (2:37) = OST 12. Écoust-Saint-Mein (2:37)

FYC 12. The Girl (3:37) = OST 13. Les Arbres (3:37)

FYC 13. Clock Chime to River Jump (4:29) = OST 14. Engländer (4:29)

FYC 14. The Rapids (1:30) = OST 15. The Rapids (1:30)

FYC 15. River Petals (2:07) = OST 16. Croisilles Wood (2:07)

FYC 16. Devons to MacKenzie (6:32) = OST 17. Sixteen Hundred Men (6:32)

FYC 17. Ending (5:40) = OST 19. Come Back to Us (5:40)

 

So that's it, all of the FYC is on the OST, on the order I just posted. The only OST tracks not on FYC are Milk and Mentions in Dispatches. Anyone wanting to make a chronological edit of the score should figure out when these tracks appear (and if they appear at all, considering Milk is over 10 minutes long).

 

But without watching the movie, I'm inclined to believe that at least Mentions in Dispatches comes at the very end, considering the OST is chronological from Écoust-Saint-Mein onwards.

 

Then, it should be easy to see if there's any unreleased cue on the movie that is not on the OST.

 

Easier to figure it out than The Rise of Skywalker!

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2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

 

I haven't made a more complete comparison of both FYC and OST, but just looking at the duration of some of the tracks, and considering the FYC is chronological, one can put almost all of the OST on chronological order:

 

FYC 01. Meadow / First Trench (4:21) = OST 10. Blake and Schofield (4:21)

FYC 02. Trench to Yorks (6:19) = 02. Up the Down Trench (6:19)

FYC 03. Fly By / German Trench (3:35) = OST 03. Gehenna (3:35)

FYC 04. Trip Wire (3:22) = OST 06. The Boche (3:22)

FYC 05. Buried / Run from Bunker (1:41) = OST 07. Tripwire (1:41)

FYC 06. Quarry to Orchard (6:30) = OST 04. A Scrap of Ribbon (6:30)

FYC 07. First Truck (2:03) = OST 08. A Bit of Tin (2:03)

FYC 08. Tobacco Tin (1:17) = OST 01. 1917 (1:17)

FYC 09. Bridge to Lockhouse (4:04) = OST 09. Lockhouse (4:04)

FYC 10. Night Window (3:41) = OST 05. The Night Window (3:41)

FYC 11. Cathedral Chase (2:37) = OST 12. Écoust-Saint-Mein (2:37)

FYC 12. The Girl (3:37) = OST 13. Les Arbres (3:37)

FYC 13. Clock Chime to River Jump (4:29) = OST 14. Engländer (4:29)

FYC 14. The Rapids (1:30) = OST 15. The Rapids (1:30)

FYC 15. River Petals (2:07) = OST 16. Croisilles Wood (2:07)

FYC 16. Devons to MacKenzie (6:32) = OST 17. Sixteen Hundred Men (6:32)

FYC 17. Ending (5:40) = OST 19. Come Back to Us (5:40)

 

So that's it, all of the FYC is on the OST, on the order I just posted. The only OST tracks not on FYC are Milk and Mentions in Dispatches. Anyone wanting to make a chronological edit of the score should figure out when these tracks appear (and if they appear at all, considering Milk is over 10 minutes long).

 

But without watching the movie, I'm inclined to believe that at least Mentions in Dispatches comes at the very end, considering the OST is chronological from Écoust-Saint-Mein onwards.

 

Then, it should be easy to see if there's any unreleased cue on the movie that is not on the OST.

 

Easier to figure it out than The Rise of Skywalker!

 

Mention in Dispatches chronologically should be the second track. Or if not, it is an alternate of the some kind of the first track.

 

Milk would come between Quarry to Orchard and First Truck.

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