Popular Post crumbs 14,306 Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 So I just stumbled upon this, which appears to be the first musician involved in the TROS score to add the film to their credits: https://lamasterchorale.org/singers-jim-raycroft Quote He is also busy in the studios and has appeared in the soundtracks for numerous movies including Home Alone, Jurassic Park, A.I., Mars Attacks, Waterworld, XXX, Lady In The Water, Godzilla and Star Wars 9 – The Rise of Skywalker As you may know, the LA Master Chorale provided the vocals for The Last Jedi. Jim is a 35 year member of that chorus. Not direct confirmation of this group's involvement in the score but it does confirm the presence of choir. So there! The Illustrious Jerry, Ricard, Remco and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Isn't the original film the only score to *not* feature a choir in some way? It's hardly surprising. TFA only had the Snoke material, though, right? Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 The arrival at Cloud City but I think it's synth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 Somebody gave a surprisingly detailed/thorough answer about this on Stack Exchange: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/116483/which-songs-on-the-star-wars-soundtracks-have-vocals Quote Music from the Star Wars films with vocal elements: I - The Phantom Menace Duel of the Fates - Epic choral music during the duel between, Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, and Darth Maul on Naboo. From Wikipedia: Featuring choral interjections derived from the archaic Celtic poem "Cad Goddeu" ("Battle of the Trees") translated into Sanskrit, the theme is used to represent the clash between the Light Side and the Dark Side. In English, the text reads: "Under the tongue root a fight most dread, and another raging behind, in the head." Duel of the Fates-related chanting - This idea is heard at several other moments throughout the film. Jar Jar's Introduction and The Swim to Otoh Gunga - A sweeping, eerie female choir for the underwater city. The Droid Invasion and The Appearance of Darth Maul - The Emperor's Theme is heard often throughout the films. The High Council Meeting and Qui-Gon's Funeral - A male chorus sings a sort of theme of mourning. Augie's Great Municipal Band and End Credits - A children's choir performs a sped-up, optimistic version of the Emperor's Theme. Source music1: The Street Singer - An awkward, painful wailing that is, thankfully, barely audible in the film when Qui-Gon and Watto meet after the race. II - Attack of the Clones Yoda And The Younglings - A soft, heavenly choir performs as Kenobi and Yoda examine the holographic star map. Return to Tatooine - Duel of the Fates is reprised when Anakin sets out to find his mother. The Tusken Camp and The Homestead - A low male chorus sings as Anakin returns with his mother's body. Confrontation with Count Dooku and Finale - Female vocals capture the eeriness and mystery as Tyranus escapes and meets up with Sidious. III - Revenge of the Sith Battle of the Heroes and Anakin vs. Obi-Wan - An epic, yet tragic choral theme for the battle between Vader and Kenobi. Anakin's Betrayal - A mournful choir laments the deaths of the Jedi during Order 66. Grievous Speaks to Lord Sidious - A choral fanfare for Grievous' arrival on Utapau. Palpatine's Teachings - Eerie, low male chorus sings during the opera scene. Padmé's Ruminations - Synth female vocals wail eerily as Anakin decides which path to follow. Anakin's Dark Deeds - Dramatic choir fanfare as Vader takes out the separatist leaders and Palpatine creates the Galactic Empire. The Birth of the Twins and Padmé's Destiny - The theme of mourning from Episode I returns for Padme's funeral and as Vader's robotic suit is assembled. Duel of the Fates returns in the unreleased music from the duels between Yoda and Palpatine / Obi-Wan and Anakin. Solo Enfys Nest theme - an especially unusual choral theme for the marauders and Enfys Nest, heard throughout the score. L3 & Millenium Falcon - the Star Wars main theme gets a choir for an added sense of awe. Duel of the Fates is reprised in this unreleased cue as Maul and Qi'ra conspire. Source music: Chicken in the Pot - heard in Dryden Vos' club. Rogue One Guardians of the Whills Suite - A heavenly chorus gives Chirrut Imwe's music its gravitas (Heard again on album in The Master Switch). Your Father Would Be Proud - Poignant strings and choir, joined later by Jyn's Theme, drive the emotion of the heroes' sacrifice. Hope - An epic choral variation of the Imperial March during Darth Vader's rampage. IV - A New Hope None of the music from Episode IV has any vocal elements. V - The Empire Strikes Back Imperial Starfleet Deployed/City in the Clouds - A high, deceptively beautiful female choir performs a sort of siren's song as the Falcon flies towards Cloud City, a supposedly safe place to hide. VI - Return of the Jedi The Emperor Arrives / The Death of Yoda / Obi-Wan's Revelation, Shuttle Tydirium Approaches Endor, Emperor's Throne Room, The Battle of Endor II - An eerie, mysterious low male chorus performs the Emperor's theme and is played in several scenes (and in several films). The Battle of Endor II - A tragic, emotional chorus crescendos as Luke goes on the offensive. Victory Celebration - A children's choir and then full choir celebrate the Rebel victory. Ewok Celebration - A tribal choir rejoices in the demise of the Empire. Source music: Lapti Nek - performed in Jabba's Palace. Source music: Jedi Rocks - the Honeycomb guy introduces a song that I pretend doesn't exist in any universe. VII - The Force Awakens Snoke - Sinister, menacing male chorus sings a deep and threatening theme for the Supreme Leader. Source music: Jabba Flow and Dobra Doompa are performed in Maz Kanata's Castle. VIII - The Last Jedi Revisiting Snoke and A New Alliance- The deep male chorus returns to reprise Snoke's music. The Supremacy - Soft, subtle vocals accompany Leia's theme. The Battle of Crait - An enormously emotional chorus accompanies Finn’s charge towards the First Order. The Last Jedi - A powerful chorus adds gravity throughout the film's climax (including heightening the intensity of Kylo Ren's theme). Remco, BrendanT1993, Ricard and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,434 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 27 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Somebody gave a surprisingly detailed/thorough answer about this on Stack Exchange: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/116483/which-songs-on-the-star-wars-soundtracks-have-vocals Interesting, but these include only the officially released music through the OSTs, 2004 Sony albums and 2000 Ultimate Edition of TPM? So, maybe there's more on the unreleased music (specially on ROTS) that's not included there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Well, he has always used the choir for The Emperor, so it was pretty much a given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 I’d be very surprised if the Emperor’s theme doesn’t appear in TROS without some choral element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Oh Joy more duel of the fates with all its false endings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stravinsky 206 Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 I sang Tenor in the sessions for the Prequel scores with London Voices when I worked doing extra chorus at Covent Garden under the then chorus master Terry Edwards. I think we were paid around £225 for a 3 hour session. So quite lucrative. Strangely the sessions for Attack of the Clones were recorded on a Sunday. The movies were appaling and the scores (esp for EpisodeS II & III) were sub par in my estimation compared to Williams return to form with the sequel scores. But what an opportunity. I'll never forget it. DominicCobb, Fabulin, Evanus and 5 others 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Did you keep any sheet music or paperwork from working on the prequel scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stravinsky 206 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 I know I have the invoice somewhere for one of the score sessions. I also nabbed the choral part for AOTC I think. I seem to remember sending it to Chris Chrusher in Oswego NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 7 hours ago, crumbs said: The arrival at Cloud City but I think it's synth. There’s both female voices and an ARP synthesizer in that spot, but the voices are real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 I don't even believe choral sounding synth like that even existed until the mid 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 10 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: I don't even believe choral sounding synth like that even existed until the mid 90's. I don’t believe Williams has ever written for one, but the Mellotron was introduced in 1963 and can do choral sounds: Manakin Skywalker and Fabulin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Evanus 217 Posted December 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2019 2 hours ago, stravinsky said: I sang Tenor in the sessions for the Prequel scores with London Voices when I worked doing extra chorus at Covent Garden under the then chorus master Terry Edwards. I think we were paid around £225 for a 3 hour session. So quite lucrative. Strangely the sessions for Attack of the Clones were recorded on a Sunday. The movies were appaling and the scores (esp for EpisodeS II & III) were sub par in my estimation compared to Williams return to form with the sequel scores. But what an opportunity. I'll never forget it. Tiburon, MikeH and Bounty95 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,493 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, stravinsky said: I sang Tenor in the sessions for the Prequel scores with London Voices when I worked doing extra chorus at Covent Garden under the then chorus master Terry Edwards. I think we were paid around £225 for a 3 hour session. So quite lucrative. Strangely the sessions for Attack of the Clones were recorded on a Sunday. The movies were appaling and the scores (esp for EpisodeS II & III) were sub par in my estimation compared to Williams return to form with the sequel scores. But what an opportunity. I'll never forget it. Cool that you worked on the scores and everything, but you're WAY off in your estimations here. The prequel scores are miles and miles better than the sequel scores. They're not even close. justaguy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 I've heard of people not liking the Attack of the Clones score before, but I think this if the first time I've heard someone say Revenge of the Sith was subpar. I still think the second half of that film's score was Williams hitting some next level writing I've never heard from him before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty95 558 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, stravinsky said: I sang Tenor in the sessions for the Prequel scores with London Voices when I worked doing extra chorus at Covent Garden under the then chorus master Terry Edwards. I think we were paid around £225 for a 3 hour session. So quite lucrative. Strangely the sessions for Attack of the Clones were recorded on a Sunday. The movies were appaling and the scores (esp for EpisodeS II & III) were sub par in my estimation compared to Williams return to form with the sequel scores. But what an opportunity. I'll never forget it. You can say what you want about the prequel films (I personally like them), but the scores are nothing less than spectacular. Apart from Shore's LOTR, I don't think there is a score from the 21st century that can compete with them. Jost1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 3 hours ago, stravinsky said: I sang Tenor in the sessions for the Prequel scores with London Voices when I worked doing extra chorus at Covent Garden under the then chorus master Terry Edwards. I think we were paid around £225 for a 3 hour session. So quite lucrative. Strangely the sessions for Attack of the Clones were recorded on a Sunday. The movies were appaling and the scores (esp for EpisodeS II & III) were sub par in my estimation compared to Williams return to form with the sequel scores. But what an opportunity. I'll never forget it. Evanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 2 hours ago, BrotherSound said: I don’t believe Williams has ever written for one, but the Mellotron was introduced in 1963 and can do choral sounds: That's actually pretty fascinating. BrotherSound and SteveMc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Thor said: Cool that you worked on the scores and everything, but you're WAY off in your estimations here. The prequel scores are miles and miles better than the sequel scores. They're not even close. Don’t state that as a fact, even though his opinion is an unpopular one. crumbs and Ricard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stravinsky 206 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I can hear what I can hear that's all. I don't like the major themes Williams wrote for these movies because I think he was uninspired by the orgy of CGI. Phantom Menace is about the best of the three. But its all a matter of taste I suppose. Don't fall out with me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Thor said: Cool that you worked on the scores and everything, but you're WAY off in your estimations here. The prequel scores are miles and miles better than the sequel scores. They're not even close. You mean the OSTs, obviously crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, stravinsky said: I can hear what I can hear that's all. I don't like the major themes Williams wrote for these movies because I think he was uninspired by the orgy of CGI. Phantom Menace is about the best of the three. But its all a matter of taste I suppose. Don't fall out with me! You don't have to justify your opinion, don't worry about the posts questioning you. Personally I think the sequel scores are stylistically closer to the OT than the prequel scores were, but I enjoy them all to varying degrees (depending on my mood). It's very cool to hear some insight from an actual performer on the prequel scores! Did Williams talk to the chorus directly? Any particular instructions that stuck in your mind? I always enjoyed this video from the TPM sessions of JW working with the choir: Perhaps one of the reasons for recording an AOTC session on a Sunday was Williams' rush to finish the score due to the 3 other projects he had on his plate that year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 4 hours ago, BrotherSound said: I don’t believe Williams has ever written for one, but the Mellotron was introduced in 1963 and can do choral sounds: Isn't that a Rock Band keyboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stravinsky 206 Posted December 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Ricard said: You mean the OSTs, obviously Yes the Original Soundtracks. We recorded at Abbey Road (where I also recorded there) music by Lili Boulanger (great composer who died at age 24 and was sister of the great pedagog Nadia) Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms and his Opera The Rakes Progress. We recorded Bruckner Motets there also I think all under John Eliot Gardiner who compared to Williams was a piece of shit. I also recorded Dave Brubeck's Jazz Cantata "The Gates of Justice" there as well as Goldsmith's "Christus Apollo" As well as those modern works we also recorded material like Schumann's "Scene's from Goethe's Faust and" Das Paradies und die Peri" all with the Montervedi Choir. I worked with them for 5 years and toured the globe until I was unceremoniously dropped after standing up to Jiggy as he is known in the business. We performed Beethoven 9 in LA and I even had the chance to visit the old offices of FSM where I bought some CDs from them whilst renewing my subscription to the print magazine. This was in 1999. I sing 2nd Tenor for Scottish Opera Chorus now in Glasgow. We just finished Tosca (which is like one big film score with singing) and we start rehearsing Nixon in China by John Adams this Thursday. Generally in chorus I just stand at the back holding a farmyard implement. It's easier! 1 hour ago, Ricard said: You mean the OSTs, obviously Yes the Original Soundtracks. We recorded at Abbey Road (where I also recorded there) music by Lili Boulanger (great composer who died at age 24 and was sister of the great pedagog Nadia) Stravinsky's Symphony of Psalms and his Opera The Rakes Progress. We recorded Bruckner Motets there also I think all under John Eliot Gardiner who compared to Williams was a piece of shit. I also recorded Dave Brubeck's Jazz Cantata "The Gates of Justice" there as well as Goldsmith's "Christus Apollo" As well as those modern works we also recorded material like Schumann's "Scene's from Goethe's Faust and" Das Paradies und die Peri" all with the Montervedi Choir. I worked with them for 5 years and toured the globe until I was unceremoniously dropped after standing up to Jiggy as he is known in the business. We performed Beethoven 9 in LA and I even had the chance to visit the old offices of FSM where I bought some CDs from them whilst renewing my subscription to the print magazine. This was in 1999. I sing 2nd Tenor for Scottish Opera Chorus now in Glasgow. We just finished Tosca (which is like one big film score with singing) and we start rehearsing Nixon in China by John Adams this Thursday. Generally in chorus I just stand at the back holding a farmyard implement. It's easier! The photo of myself and the Maestro is a treasured possession. I had the temerity to go up to George Lucas and as for Williams photo. I wasn't interested in being photographed with him! Lucas said "I don't think that's possible. Mr Williams is so busy". During a break I took a chance and walked up to the podium where the Maestro was looking at his score. I asked for a photo and he was extremely gracious. I was so nervous I forgot to shake his hand to my eternal regret. I told him how I came from a background of poverty and violence in Glasgow in the 70s and how his music eventually led me to win a scholarship at the RCM. I then stayed that his music would last for centuries. He replied "Ah but will we?". Christ I was so slim in that photo haha! 1 hour ago, crumbs said: You don't have to justify your opinion, don't worry about the posts questioning you. Personally I think the sequel scores are stylistically closer to the OT than the prequel scores were, but I enjoy them all to varying degrees (depending on my mood). It's very cool to hear some insight from an actual performer on the prequel scores! Did Williams talk to the chorus directly? Any particular instructions that stuck in your mind? I always enjoyed this video from the TPM sessions of JW working with the choir: Perhaps one of the reasons for recording an AOTC session on a Sunday was Williams' rush to finish the score due to the 3 other projects he had on his plate that year. Yes I agree with you. I love the Sequel scores because as you say they are closer in some way to the OT music. I consider Williams music for these 9 films to be the modern day equivalent to Wagner's Ring Cycle. Opera was the medium of the day in Wagner's time. Now its Cinema. Don't get me wrong there are wonderful moments in the prequel scores of course. But with trying to marry the quagmire of the Taxation of Trade Routes with what is basically a kids movie I think Williams wrote music which mirrored the artifice of what was on screen. That is how great a composer he is. He can't helped morphing into whichever project he tackles. Seamlessly. Yes Williams spoke to us but this was nearly 20 years ago now when I sang on those movies. The thing about film music gigs in general is that they are a gift for choral singers because (apart from the Sanskrit material) it's all mostly just "oohs and aahs" and generally harmony is firmly tonal. Compare this with works that I've been part of like Poulenc's A Capella Cantata "Figure Humaine", Reich's "Desert Music" or something like the Ligeti Requiem which are impossibly difficult. A lot of Renaissance repertoire came my way also in those days incl the "Missa et Ecce Terrae Motus by Antoine Brumel or the 19 part Motet" O Bone Jesu"by the Scottish Renaissance master Robert Carver. Film music is a walk in the park compared with this stuff which is modal (written before the invention of the bar line) and rhythmically mist complex. I wasn't aware that Williams wrote four scores that in one year. Surely his most prolific year by far? Taikomochi, Edmilson, Ricard and 9 others 8 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, stravinsky said: I wasn't aware that Williams wrote four scores that in one year. Surely his most prolific year by far? Incredibly he did it both years you performed for him. After finishing Episode 2 he went on to score Minority Report, Catch Me If You Can and Harry Potter 2. After finishing Episode 3, he scored War of the Worlds, Memoirs of a Geisha and Munich. Never again did he score more than 2 films in one year, so it must have been exhausting for him. I can't remember if he ever scored more than 4 films in one year, unless it was very early in his career when the films he was scoring required far less music than the likes of Star Wars or Harry Potter demand. And what a brilliant photo. Every poster here would kill to have a photo with the Maestro so cherish it! 32 minutes ago, stravinsky said: I then stayed that his music would last for centuries. He replied "Ah but will we?" What a fantastic quote! Not surprised that one stuck in your memory. What was he like to work under as a conductor, generally speaking? We rarely get to see Williams' persona on the scoring stage but occasionally we'll get a glimpse into a very different side to the softly-spoken persona we see in interviews. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayesian 1,363 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, stravinsky said: The thing about film music gigs in general is that they are a gift for choral singers because (apart from the Sanskrit material) it's all mostly just "oohs and aahs" and generally harmony is firmly tonal. Compare this with works that I've been part of like Poulenc's A Capella Cantata "Figure Humaine", Reich's "Desert Music" or something like the Ligeti Requiem which are impossibly difficult. Don’t you dare leave this forum now, @stravinsky, not after all this wonderful insight you’ve shared with us so far. Tell us everything you know—-about working with JW or other conductors or other composers’ music! For instance, I chuckled when reading your opinion about John Eliot Gardiner, whose albums never did much for me (despite everyone falling over themselves to praise his historically informed performance style). Is it that he’s a poor director of music ensembles or just that he’s a jerk? (Feel free to be discreet if you want; the guy’s still alive, I’m guessing). Otherwise, it’s a real pleasure to learn more about the life of a choral singer. Never being part of the music industry, but in love with good music, these anecdotes are just a great deal of fun to read. And, yes, you’re right about your level of pride in that photo. I’d give my right arm for one like it. armorb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stravinsky 206 Posted December 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2019 Williams was very easy to work with because there was absolutely no ego. The important thing is he is a composer/conductor as well as an instrumentalist so he's a polyglot. He UNDERSTANDS the musician and all of the demands required of him or her. Celebrity Conductors like JEG are megalomaniacs and they hide their insecuruty with unpleasantness and POWER. Have a look on YouTube of a rehearsal with Celibidache rehearsing Bruckner with a top German Orchestra. He is so patronising and they fuckin hate him. Williams doesn't need to bully anyone. That behaviour is beneath him. After all he is a composer not only of film scores but also concert music and an example of how HUMAN he is is that he has concentrated almost exclusively on the Concerto as a format? Why? I guess because he loves people and gifts not only the orchestra but also the Soloist with his gentleness and wisdom. The only other conductor I can think of that I worked with (in a choral capacity of course) to match Williams humility was Rattle when I sang with European Voices (it was either them or I was depping for the Arnold Schonberg Chor or something) when we did a tour of Mozart's Idomeneo with the Berlin Philharmonic. There is wonderful music for chorus in that Opera. My claim to fame with Rattle was my conversation with him after a rehearsal when he confirmed my idea that Idomeneo was Mozart's one and only use of the Piccolo, which as an instrument was in its infancy in Mozart's Day. Rattle was VERY down to earth. I worked with the screaming skull only once. Solti conducted us as students when I was in 2nd year at RCM in Parsifal I think it was. Then about two days after the concert he snuffed it! I remember Stephen Cleobury as being desperately dull but a very worthy musician. I worked with Richard Hickox only once with his group Collegium Musicum 90 and he really Impressed me as a great musician. Jan Pascal Tortelier was also a delight to work with I remember. I worked with Rattle again at the Proms in another production of Parsifal, then one last time in what is known as a "bumping" job when professional singers are paid to bolster the sound of an amateur symphonic chorus like the LSO chorus. We recorded the ballet "Harnasie" with the CBSO in Birmingham... In Polish! I sang in all the Haitink Galas at Covent Garden but I don't remember much about him. Generally with Opera conductors the chorus are a hindrance. It takes them all their time to look up at us from the podium because this breed are interested in only one thing...the Orchestra. I remember in Salzburg once I sat in on a rehearsal of Katia and Marielle Labeque playing through the Double Concerto of Francis Poulenc with the Vienna Phil and I thought to myself "Christ how lucky am I to get paid for this?" I think we were singing Stravinsky's Oedipus Rex or something. This is like 20 odd years ago so I can't remember cos I've done a fair bit. I can say with confidence that John Eliot Gardiner was the finest choral trainer I ever worked with. But as a human being? Well I won't go into it. I remember once we had a gig where he used us in the Montervedi Choir to sing in Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe and because it wasn't his "Fach" the whole thing nearly collapsed. "Period Instrument" conductors like Gardiner (or Minkowski and Norrington both of whom I've also worked with) concentrate a lot on Baroque repertoire which very often doesn't have a great deal of rubato or time signature changes (in fact none) so things naturally become more motoric and fixed. Certainly rhythmically more foursquare. However with something like Daphnis it's all over the place. I'm telling you now if some of these big name classical conductors walked into a Hollywood sound stage and had to conduct something to order when time is MONEY they'd have a job on their hands. Korngold was looked down upon for his move to movie music. But like Williams he was triumphant because he drew on his enormous musical wealth and HUMAN FEELING. Truly great ARTISTS don't need to shout. Often their whispers are more deafening. tmarps, Fabulin, crumbs and 10 others 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew 590 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Can you tell us about some of unused choral music in Episode II, like the finale part that was replaced with the Imperial March? Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayesian 1,363 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 hour ago, stravinsky said: Williams was very easy to work with because there was absolutely no ego. The important thing is he is a composer/conductor as well as an instrumentalist so he's a polyglot. He UNDERSTANDS the musician and all of the demands required of him or her. Celebrity Conductors like JEG are megalomaniacs and they hide their insecuruty with unpleasantness and POWER. Have a look on YouTube of a rehearsal with Celibidache rehearsing Bruckner with a top German Orchestra. He is so patronising and they fuckin hate him. Williams doesn't need to bully anyone. That behaviour is beneath him. After all he is a composer not only of film scores but also concert music and an example of how HUMAN he is is that he has concentrated almost exclusively on the Concerto as a format? Why? I guess because he loves people and gifts not only the orchestra but also the Soloist with his gentleness and wisdom. I remember in Salzburg once I sat in on a rehearsal of Katia and Marielle Labeque playing through the Double Concerto of Francis Poulenc with the Vienna Phil and I thought to myself "Christ how lucky am I to get paid for this?" I think we were singing Stravinsky's Oedipus Rex or something. This is like 20 odd years ago so I can't remember cos I've done a fair bit. So many fascinating nuggets in there.. thank you! What great insight into JW as a humanist. (btw, I also would feel incredibly privileged to hear Poulenc played by the Weiner Phil and a couple of star soloists!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,493 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 9 hours ago, Remco said: Don’t state that as a fact, even though his opinion is an unpopular one. It should go without saying it's an opinion. I'm opposed to always putting 'IMO's in there; it's' a tautology. But as much as I disagree with you on the evaluation of the prequel vs. sequel scores, I love those insights about the choral sessions and various conductors, stravinsky. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, Thor said: It should go without saying it's an opinion. I'm opposed to always putting 'IMO's in there; it's' a tautology. But your comment wasn't about presenting your own opinion; it came across as a condescending 'correction' of Stravinsky's opinion just because it differed from your own. Just because you proclaim the prequel scores are "miles and miles better" than the sequel scores does not make it fact. Stylistically the two trilogies have very different musical approaches, despite belonging to the same series of films. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,493 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, crumbs said: But your comment wasn't about presenting your own opinion; it came across as a condescending 'correction' of Stravinsky's opinion just because it differed from your own. No, it's the same way I would have said it if we were discussing it in a pub, in real life. It's natural to say 'X is better', and everyone understands it's your opinion, not a fact. No need to preface or end your statement with 'in my oh-so-humble opinion' or whatever. I find that very irritating to both read and use, since it's all subjective evaluation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,055 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 15 hours ago, stravinsky said: I sang Tenor in the sessions for the Prequel scores with London Voices when I worked doing extra chorus at Covent Garden under the then chorus master Terry Edwards. I think we were paid around £225 for a 3 hour session. So quite lucrative. Strangely the sessions for Attack of the Clones were recorded on a Sunday. The movies were appaling and the scores (esp for EpisodeS II & III) were sub par in my estimation compared to Williams return to form with the sequel scores. But what an opportunity. I'll never forget it. Per person? Not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,278 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 46 minutes ago, Thor said: No, it's the same way I would have said it if we were discussing it in a pub, in real life. It's natural to say 'X is better', and everyone understands it's your opinion, not a fact. No need to preface or end your statement with 'in my oh-so-humble opinion' or whatever. I find that very irritating to both read and use, since it's all subjective evaluation. Eh, tone and expression go a long way irl. I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt online, some folks who like to express themselves bluntly wouldn’t seem like they’re being all that harsh in person. There could also be subtle differences between native and non-native English speakers. A little here and there never hurts (in my humble opinion!) I do know one guy in real life who genuinely has no problem going “That movie is TRASH bro” and he’s nice enough but also kind of a dickhead LOL. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,493 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Yeah, when I discuss movies with my fellow film critic colleagues, for example, we don't go "oh, dear kindly sir, if I may interject with a slight opinion of mine that may depart somewhat from yours....". We go more like "HA! You're WAY off! X is sooo much better than Y", and then -- hopefully -- proceed to give our reasons. It's all in good humour, and nobody ever assumes anyone is sending off their arguments as facts. That's just ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,055 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 HA! You're way off! Thor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,278 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 You’re a pretty cool guy, Thor. You don’t get enough credit. Although you are SO wrong, the sequel and prequel scores are totally close! Ricard and Thor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,493 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 See? Refreshing, isn’t it? mrbellamy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stravinsky 206 Posted December 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2019 As Spencer was no longer around. His style was "dryer" than Conrad Pope etc where the orchestrational feel is much more "glossy" and thick now. I guess like any composer Williams style just changed. Much like Goldsmith's more sleek and streamlined style of the 90s. Dear all. We all love Williams which is the bottom line. The prequel scores were blazing genius compared to most of what was being written by other composers in the 90s. I guess I was just comparing them to the OT scores which were orchestrated in a different way. As far as fees were concerned film work is easily the most lucrative for a choral singer. It is very closely jealously guarded work. Remember this was £225 for 3 hours 20 years ago which included the buyout. God knows what they are being paid now. I can tell you there was no choral music at the moment you described which was unfortunately replaced with the Imperial March. I just sat there dazzled with those gigantic unearthly chords blasting from the LSO which I described at the time as a "massive orchestral blowout" or something. This was the apex of the entire score as far as I'm concerned and it was cut! The full sequence isn't even available anywhere. Maybe one day we will see this box set of all nine scores we so desparately want. I would also love a complete release of the excellent Rogue One score by Giacchino and the material Powell wrote for the terrible Solo movie. Will this ever happen do you think? shad79, crumbs, Taikomochi and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 We live in hope, Stravinsky! If we're lucky, they're just waiting until the 9th score is released so they can unveil expanded versions of all 9 scores. We have no inside information here though (well maybe a few do, but I sure don't). Your description of the deleted AOTC finale is drool-worthy. Sadly all we have is a fragment from the music video and some synth mocks based on the sheet music. I take it you performed in the final cue doing the vocals of the Emperor's Theme as Count Dooku meets with Palpatine (a great rendition of the theme which was sadly cut from the soundtrack)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,346 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 The original ending of Attack of the Clones score, which was partially replaced by the Imperial March insert, can be heard here, in mockup form There was no choral component of the replaced material Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Just imagine how that smooth transition to Across the Stars will sound on the final album Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 12 hours ago, Drew said: Can you tell us about some of unused choral music in Episode II, like the finale part that was replaced with the Imperial March? The choral part you're thinking about was recorded for the Emperor's theme as Dooku is flying through Coruscant. There was no choir written or recorded for the unused section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stravinsky 206 Posted December 10, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2019 HELLO Crumbs. As a Tenor I was only required to sing my line and ostensibly wouldn't have been involved with singing the Palpatine music when Dooku meets up with him. Also it's the only example of a Solo Soprano Vocalise in the entire Canon of music. I was so jealous Lucy Ballard got it. I wanted to swoop up there! Anyway Maestro Williams invited all the Gents to join in the Bass choruses anyway so yes I'm grumbling away the best I could on the soundtracks. Totally out if my range but hey ho. Just gave a bit of added weight with all 30 Gents singing. This was a 60 piece choir I think. Every one a trained Opera Singer. I've heard the mock up before so thankyou Jay. Maybe the real thing will see the light of day soon. crumbs, Taikomochi, Fabulin and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post karelm 2,912 Posted December 11, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 11, 2019 On 12/9/2019 at 7:04 AM, First TROS March Accolyte said: Oh yeah, indeed there is! That 10-second mystical choir moment. I am curious how are such extremely short involvements of musicians done. How do they get someone to commute to the recording place, wait, sing for 10 seconds in each of a couple of takes, and then go home. What sort of money is paid to people in such a case. In LA (so TROS), vocalists are not musicians but actors with the SAG. They have a whole different (and better) union scale. I think the reason for this is in early hollywood, they had a lot of musicals where the actor would start singing so singing was an acting duty for decades before it was used as score. They are blocked in 3 hour sessions with very expensive overtime and overdub regulations. Meaning it might be cheaper to hire 24 vocalists than 12 vocalists and overdub them. The idea being each singer is performing the work of two singers and is sort of anti-union since you are unemploying a vocalist so must pay for that rather than exploit that. In a triple A budget feature film like Star Wars, the cost per singer might be $175 per singer per hour with a three hour minimum so all vocal music would be recorded at the same time. It's pretty much the same for musicians but the vocalists will have a better maximum cap (like each hour they won't record more than three minutes of recorded singing otherwise additional fees apply), mandatory breaks, etc. Choral music is very slow to record and it is hard to get more than three minutes recorded in an hour. The easiest type of singing is vocalized vowels like ooh's and aahhs. Foreign languages much harder, soloists harder, etc. In london, they might have had a deal to use the London Symphony Chorus as a part of the London Symphony ensemble so 10 seconds in Empire might have been part of the orchestra fee with additional members rather than a multi-hour minimum. Question: what was JW's first use of choir? Was it Empire? If so, he might have realized how good it works for sci-fi/fantasy and opted for more frequent use in subsequent films with Empire being a very small/minor role for them. Fabulin, Jay, armorb and 4 others 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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