Falstaft 2,097 Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 20 hours ago, Tydirium said: Is 0:40 in "To Kijimi" an instance of the Knights of Ren theme? Yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,166 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 0:22-0:25 in "Coming Together" is another occurrence of the Knights of Ren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alan 689 Posted December 22, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 22, 2019 Amazing the little details you pick up on repeat plays. Listen to 1:18 - 1:22 of Prologue. That's Rey's theme, right? Chewy, Falstaft, Tiburon and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,799 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alan said: Amazing the little details you pick up on repeat plays. Listen to 1:18 - 1:22 of Prologue. That's Rey's theme, right? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylanskie 103 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Alan said: Amazing the little details you pick up on repeat plays. Listen to 1:18 - 1:22 of Prologue. That's Rey's theme, right? That's a great find. It's really buried in there. The scene it corresponds to in the movie has no explicit mention of Rey, which is interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Alan said: Amazing the little details you pick up on repeat plays. Listen to 1:18 - 1:22 of Prologue. That's Rey's theme, right? 5 hours ago, dylanskie said: That's a great find. It's really buried in there. The scene it corresponds to in the movie has no explicit mention of Rey, which is interesting Rey's Theme being there is notated on the theme list in the main post of this thread dylanskie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan 689 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Whoops! Didn't see the hidden theme list before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 I took it out of spoiler tags now and revised some of the theme names I am open to all corrections and additions to the theme list if people think anything about it is wrong - let's hear it! Alan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaug The Iron 497 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 On 12/11/2019 at 10:13 PM, Smaug the iron said: On 12/11/2019 at 12:59 AM, Jay said: 01 Prologue (1:45) 0:08 Kylo Ren's Theme 0:43 NEW THEME #1 (the swirly one) 0:48 Kylo Ren's Theme You have Rey's Theme at 1:18 Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylanskie 103 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 32 minutes ago, Jay said: I pointed out that's Rey's Theme right there as soon as the FYC dropped. It's notated on the theme list in the main post of this thread I haven't studied the theme list closely, so I must not have made note of that. I'm going to look at it more closely once I've seen the movie and can understand some of Williams' choices better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Since Rey has nothing to do with the prologue that exists in the film now, I can't imagine what her theme is doing there 17 minutes ago, Smaug the iron said: Apologies, all credit to @Smaug the iron for first pointing out the theme was there! I forget which themes I noticed right away and which others first pointed out and I added to the list. 13 minutes ago, dylanskie said: I haven't studied the theme list closely, so I must not have made note of that. I'm going to look at it more closely once I've seen the movie and can understand some of Williams' choices better. The thing is, the prologue as it exists in the final cut has nothing to do with Rey. The footage scored by her theme there is just Kylo Ren in ship approaching Exegol. Since the whole snippet of music in the FYC from 0:56-1:28 seems to have been snipped out of the OST at 2:33 of Journey to Exegol, I don't really get what the opening of film was like when Williams, unless it was bouncing back and forth between Rey training as Kylo hunts for the Wayfinder then uses it to get to Exegol or something Smaug The Iron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylanskie 103 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Jay said: The thing is, the prologue as it exists in the final cut has nothing to do with Rey. The footage scored by her theme there is just Kylo Ren in ship approaching Exegol. Since the whole snippet of music in the FYC from 0:56-1:28 seems to have been snipped out of the OST at 2:33 of Journey to Exegol, I don't really get what the opening of film was like when Williams, unless it was bouncing back and forth between Rey training as Kylo hunts for the Wayfinder then uses it to get to Exegol or something Yeah. The opening was probably a lot like what you suggested, and then I guess Williams left her theme in. It's a shame that the first two OST tracks are hacked to pieces, but at least we have what's in the film on the FYC. The only plausible reason for using her theme in there in the final cut of the film, in my opinion, would be that Kylo is thinking of her--but there's no mention of her before he flies to Exegol, and they didn't have a force connection either, so I don't think that's what's going on. It still sounds cool in there without her being associated with the scene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAvengerButton 175 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Still trying to make sense of my combined track order, specifically the track Parents. Based on the previous listings it's been put after Approaching the Throne chronologically, but is that its actual placing? I couldn't remember hearing it during the end sequence the times I've watched the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,166 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Jay said: Since Rey has nothing to do with the prologue that exists in the film now, I can't imagine what her theme is doing there Apologies, all credit to @Smaug the iron for first pointing out the theme was there! I forget which themes I noticed right away and which others first pointed out and I added to the list. The thing is, the prologue as it exists in the final cut has nothing to do with Rey. The footage scored by her theme there is just Kylo Ren in ship approaching Exegol. Since the whole snippet of music in the FYC from 0:56-1:28 seems to have been snipped out of the OST at 2:33 of Journey to Exegol, I don't really get what the opening of film was like when Williams, unless it was bouncing back and forth between Rey training as Kylo hunts for the Wayfinder then uses it to get to Exegol or something It's worth noting that, unless I'm mistaken, that exact same music is later used for when Rey also flies to Exegol—although I think I remember her theme that time being played higher, by horns rather than trombones. I could be misremembering. But I almost wonder if that bit was written for her scene first, and then reused for the beginning with Kylo(?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,382 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 On 12/21/2019 at 11:01 PM, Jay said: From all the varying reports coming in, I guess it just varies from theater to theater - maybe even where you are sitting within the theater. When I saw it, I could hear all the music very well the entire time The theatre I was in had a horrible mix. The basses made you feel like an earthquake was going on. The music was totally distorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,616 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 i felt the contrary, in my theater there was not enough bass and the music didn't have enough weigh to it, especially pieces like Farewell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,616 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Now that I think about it , Williams leaving off "Lando Arrives" main theme rendition on the OST is exactly like when didn't include Helicopter Rescue and Indy Climbs the Sub on the Superman and Raiders OSTs , both cues containing the most heroic and glorious statements of the themes Andy and Ricard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,957 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 It isn't many weeks since the final recording session, so in order to get the physical OSTs out to stores in time, they probably couldn't include everything they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 17 hours ago, TheAvengerButton said: Still trying to make sense of my combined track order, specifically the track Parents. Based on the previous listings it's been put after Approaching the Throne chronologically, but is that its actual placing? I couldn't remember hearing it during the end sequence the times I've watched the film. Parents is absolutely the very next cue in the film directly after Approaching The Throne, and it plays in its entirety in the film exactly as it appears on the FYC album 5 hours ago, King Mark said: Now that I think about it , Williams leaving off "Lando Arrives" main theme rendition on the OST is exactly like when didn't include Helicopter Rescue and Indy Climbs the Sub on the Superman and Raiders OSTs , both cues containing the most heroic and glorious statements of the themes Yea good point. I wonder what his thought process behind those decisions is... 5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: It isn't many weeks since the final recording session, so in order to get the physical OSTs out to stores in time, they probably couldn't include everything they wanted. The OST was not finalized and mastered until after the final recording session. They had access to everything recorded. We got what JW wanted us to hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,957 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 46 minutes ago, Jay said: The OST was not finalized and mastered until after the final recording session. Strictly speaking, that doesn't mean they had the time to include everything they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 So there has to be a reason JW didn't include certain cues on a CD that can only carry less than half the score? He's made decisions that baffled people on his album releases for decades now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,276 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 He's always leaned in favour of new, original music over reprises of existing themes though. Which is understandable but frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,166 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 That may be so, but there are plenty of Rey theme occurrences that he does offer on this OST, but that are not her training session cue, or the cue of her fighting Palpatine's guards (and Kylo fighting the Knights of Ren). It's frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,276 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Something always has to give when there's only 80 minutes of space on the album and over 180 minutes of score. There was enough room for one extra cue though, so it's a pity he didn't max out the available space. Rey's and Ren's themes are criminally underdeveloped on the soundtrack relative to their presentation in the film, especially the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 2 hours ago, crumbs said: He's always leaned in favour of new, original music over reprises of existing themes though. Which is understandable but frustrating. Why? Isn't isn't it better to get the new music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,276 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Why? Isn't isn't it better to get the new music? Well that depends on how good the new music is For example, I'd have rathered all the great new plays on Indy and Marion's themes on the KOCS OST than all that monotonous new underscore he included instead. Of course, he also omitted a lot of great new music on that soundtrack as well, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 There's just no pleasing the "fans". 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,616 Posted December 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2019 it doesn't matter if it new or old music .WE know when it's a highlight that should have been included on the OST or underscore that should have been left off. Obvioustly Williams has no clue that he should have put Lando Returns and Rey Training on the OST as he might see it as re-hash but then he includes the useless MainTitle in the Finale probably thinking it's the "equivalent" of the Lando cue .He probably didn't include the sub music in Raiders because he thought it sounded too much like the Raiders March KotCS OST would have been 100X better with none of the Secret Doors and Scorpions cues but the complete Jungle Chase and Marion Over the Cliff music Ricard, Will and Andy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,126 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I think if you compiled all of the absolutely essential cues only, you’d still end up with over 80 minutes of music. It’s a catch 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,616 Posted December 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2019 Yeah but it's happened too often he omitted ABSOLUTE highlights of the score Superman: Helicopter Rescue Raiders: Indy on the Sub Temple of Doom :Short Round Helps Last Crusade: The Portuguese Coast Krystal Skull : Marion over the Cliff, Jungle Chase Return of the Jedi: Dark Side Beckons Empire of the Sun :Bringing them Back Phantom Menace: It's Working, Anakin Wins, Talk of Podracing, Battleship Destroyed Revenge of the Sith : Goodbye Old Friend,Boys Continue,Padme's Visit,Padme's Funeral,Plan for the Twins,Finale ...etc Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone: Gryffindor Wins the House Cup Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azcaban: The Rescue of Sirius The Force Awakens: The Resistance Arrives The Last Jedi: Ray Trains with Lightsaber The Rise of Skywalker: Lando Arrives, Ray Training Will, Ricard, Andy and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,126 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 There’s cues on this album I’d rather have than those two. I think, for example, if we took out “Reunion” and replaced it with those, people would say “Reunion” is the absolute highlight of the score and that it should have been on the album. I think the importance of these cues is inflated by the fact we don’t have them. Of course, there are cues on the album I’d rather those two over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,616 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 yeah but they fit on the c.d. without removing anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,126 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 That’s assuming those cues are actually as short as they appear in film. Knowing how badly other cues are cut down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,045 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2019 2 hours ago, King Mark said: Yeah but it's happened too often he omitted ABSOLUTE highlights of the score Superman: Helicopter Rescue Raiders: Indy on the Sub Temple of Doom :Short Round Helps Last Crusade: The Portuguese Coast Krystal Skull : Marion over the Cliff, Jungle Chase Return of the Jedi: Dark Side Beckons Empire of the Sun :Bringing them Back Phantom Menace: It's Working, Anakin Wins, Talk of Podracing, Battleship Destroyed Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone: Gryffindor Wins the House Cup Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azcaban: The Rescue of Sirius The Force Awakens: The Resistance Arrives The Last Jedi: Ray Trains with Lightsaber The Rise of Skywalker: Lando Arrives, Ray Training Holy shit. When you list it out like that, it's stunning. John Williams really has a different concept of what a score highlight is, compared to the fans of his work. Tiburon, Tydirium, Ricard and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eitam 362 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 All those are very nice, but God, there really was no Dark Side Beckons on the OST? I'm glad I wasn't around at the time to be devastated by this particular omission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 The Return of the Jedi OST album released in 1983 was 40 minutes long and only had a few actual film cues, the bulk of the album was concert arrangements and alternates eitam 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 This may be apocryphal, but didnt Lucas once say that the reason ROTJ got such a short release compared to the other 2 is because there wasnt enough new music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,166 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 10 hours ago, crumbs said: Something always has to give when there's only 80 minutes of space on the album and over 180 minutes of score. There was enough room for one extra cue though, so it's a pity he didn't max out the available space. Rey's and Ren's themes are criminally underdeveloped on the soundtrack relative to their presentation in the film, especially the latter. Spoiler Is it at all possible that the major-key, post-redemption Kylo material was left off the album for spoiler reasons? Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,045 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Share Posted December 24, 2019 I doubt it. I think JW just has different ideas for what should go on an OST album than most of his fans would have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Jay said: I doubt it. I think JW just has different ideas for what should go on an OST album than most of his fans would have I absolutely agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,620 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 He's firmly in the mindset of taking listeners through a journey, including his classic moments, and not at all in the mindset of 'woah that cue I just did is really good, I must release it'. He badly needs someone to listen to his assembly, watch the film and make some recommendations. Although, thinking about that, it would also involve having to point out to him bits that were expendable, and no one is going to tell him that. Ricard and Tydirium 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 17 minutes ago, Tydirium said: Hide contents Is it at all possible that the major-key, post-redemption Kylo material was left off the album for spoiler reasons? It really would be an ephemeral product if it was produced to suit a paper thin narrow timeframe where people are eager to minimise their exposure to plot points before actually viewing the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,403 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Richard Penna said: He's firmly in the mindset of taking listeners through a journey, including his classic moments, and not at all in the mindset of 'woah that cue I just did is really good, I must release it'. And then 90% of his complete scores are still tons better journeys and listening experiences than his OSTs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Just now, Holko said: And then 90% of his complete scores are still tons better journeys and listening experiences than his OSTs! Not necessarily. Some are too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I agree some scores have great music omitted from the album, but it's best to just enjoy what you have. Many of us were born into a world where albums were being expanded, beginning with Star Wars in the early 90s and we've gotten most of JW's music since then. Having the choice between the expanded versions and albums is nice. This animosity towards OSTs is baffling to me. Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,045 Posted December 24, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2019 I am perfectly capable of both enjoying what I have AND desiring the rest of the score, thank you crumbs, Smaug The Iron, Andy and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I am fully-functional. Programmed in multiple techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,620 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 56 minutes ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: Having the choice between the expanded versions and albums is nice. This animosity towards OSTs is baffling to me. You make it sound like wanting to hear a complete score is unreasonable, and I see it the other way round. The 'be lucky for what you have' argument doesn't seem logical for me, because provided the composer is happy and there are no major financial/legal barriers, there's no reason whatsoever why all the music shouldn't be released. Loads of smaller films have complete releases right from the start and I never hear anyone complain about those. Is it just possible that some people respect JW so much that requesting music unapproved by him is frowned upon? I think JW should be trusted least out of almost any working composer in this regard. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Not Mr. Big and Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Richard Penna 3,620 Posted December 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2019 Whatever. Some of us like what we hear in films that doesn't make the album. We sincerely apologise for loving music. Tydirium, Tiburon, Smaug The Iron and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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