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Þekþiþm

Why do people prefer the Disney Trilogy to the Prequels?

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Probably because the prequels, specially The Phantom Menace, were the biggest cinematic disapointments I can remeber. It was a matter of very high expectative vs. what was delivered.

 

For a story that should have been carefully planed as a trilogy it is amazing how poorly it was structured by Lucas among the three movies. Also the inconsistencies with the original trilogy are inexcusable (remember Leia talking about how she remembered her mother at RotJ? How Obi Wan mentions he never had a droid when he meets R2-D2?)

 

But Phantom Menace main mistake was to have Anakin as a child with very little happening to the character during the movie (which made his arc from Jedi to Sith Lord very rushed in the 3rd film [as nothing much happens to the character besides the love story in the 2nd], instead of a more planned/developed arc during the three movies). IMO it would be more effective if the character already started as a young man, like Luke, that would be developed along the three movies.

 

Phantom Menace also had a boring story and a very underwelming battle between the Gungan's vs. idiotic robots, Anakin destroying the Commercial Federation ship "by chance" and a vilain with some potential (Darth Maul) that is disposed at the end of the movie intead of retained for the trilogy. In the end it feels too toned down/made for kids movie (even more than Return Of The Jedi with the Ewoks) that had no point other to display newer special effects (a CGI character, the underwater sequences, the various planets), with good actors that were wasted having nothing to do.

 

The two subsequent movies were progresively better (expectatives were already much lower after TPM, so anything would be an improvement). I liked Revenge Of The Sith (but it was still very rushed as everything relevant had to happen in that movie).

 

The new Disney trilogy can be considered superfluous, but the movies are much more engaging (even if TFA regurgitated the original Star Wars plot) and more watchable than the prequels.

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12 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I find AOTC in no way an improvement over TPM personally.

 

Those "love scenes" are rank!

I have a hard time deciding which is worse. I think TPM has better visuals (more practical effects) and action, while AOTC makes (relatively) more sense, and the dual protagonists are an improvement on the messy ensemble of TPM. Can't decide whether Jar Jar or the AOTC romance is more cringeworthy.

 

These two and TLJ are pretty much tied for me as the worst SW film, though purely as a film, TLJ is somewhat better due to its superior technical merits, such as acting and directing. 

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Because the prequels are trash. Though what Holko said is true. Even John's music for 2 and 3 is weak and underwhelming.

The actingis atrocious. The directing is bad. The visual effects are terrible. Last and certainly not least the writing is of the "I can't  believe someone wrote that down" type. The reason the threquels are better is someone cared about the audience. 

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1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

ROTS has about 20 minutes where the film suddenly seems to work....a bit.

 

Doesn't last though.

 

What's the 20 minutes?  Order 66 and immediate aftermath including that march on the temple?  That's the part I found most affecting on my recent rewatch - oddly, since we didn't know* any of the characters merced in O66.

 

*(unless we followed the comics and books, or - in hindsight, The Clone Wars)

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1 hour ago, Bofur01 said:

Does it truly trigger you when you see people who aren’t white men on the big screen? If any politics are a bit ham-fisted in the ST, it’s the rich Canto Bight stuff in TLJ rather than any “diversity and gender bullshit”

 

Diversity and gender have their place, less so when there are suddenly asians in Grimm fairy tales or issues of equality are exercised on ill-fitting subjects (the Solo subplot about the female robot). 

 

What's infuriating about this is not that these Hollywood movies trying for inclusion, but they are often doing it in a dumb, condescending and patriarchical way - which is part of the reason why it's easy for guys like Trump pointing his finger at them.

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9 minutes ago, mstrox said:

 

What's the 20 minutes?  Order 66 and immediate aftermath including that march on the temple?  That's the part I found most affecting on my recent rewatch - oddly, since we didn't know* any of the characters merced in O66.

 

*(unless we followed the comics and books, or - in hindsight, The Clone Wars)

That's what I instantly thought of, too - from right after Anakin turns until either Padmé leaves for Mustafar or the abysmally brightly sunlit and non-acted Obi-Padmé visit.

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Diversity has its place - trust me, I am a POC, so I know and I can say that.

 

But I personally perceive it as pandering when it is so on the nose.

 

Like Sequel trilogy has a white female lead, with a black man and latino man as the other leads. The villain is a white male. Sequel adds a Chinese origin female. And then the threequel adds a black woman. Rogue One has a white female lead, latino leading man, then an Indian origin man, Chinese origin man and so on. To the point that it begins to look ridiculous.

 

Diversity is a noble goal. But when you make that the focus of your movie, it begins to look self-congratulatory and pandering, it begins to look like a means to score points rather than an end that is noble that should be achieved. It is the equivalent of a Democrat running for president suddenly with no reason bursting into Spanish in the middle of a debate.

 

Diversity for me is meaningful when it is organic, not something put on a pedestal. You shouldn't draw attention to it, it should just be matter of fact. Diversity will cease to be needed when it becomes an unremarkable everyday reality. That is what films should aim for.

 

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People that complain about the equality issue in TLJ just sound sexist. Who cares if women are in the movie?  And in a huge galaxy, why would all the humans be Caucasian?  Wouldn't a galaxy have more diversity than a single planet?

 

And as for Rey being too powerful without training, I think TROS may address this. 

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Star Wars and Empire were each amazing, and everything* else since has been a letdown in some way. So when a new thing comes out, you want to be excited for it; you want it to be “the best thing since Empire”. That’s what people are saying about The Mandalorian now, of course. The final PT vs. ST case will have to be made after the ST is complete, but it looks like it will be the battle of which one sucks less, and SW fandom will continue to revolve around OT.

 

* - unless you like books.

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6 hours ago, mstrox said:

I prefer all of the Disney movies thus far to the prequels - just like 'em better, for my own reasons!  Isn't it nice that we can all have differing opinions and be respectful of them, and one another! 

No! You stink and your mum’s an armadillo!

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I think there's a brilliance to the "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy" and "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" lines because it shows the arrogance of both the Sith and the Jedi. They both dealt in absolutes. Those similarities were a theme and also directly referenced in the scene where Palpatine speaks with Anakin. It wasn't until Return of the Jedi that their savior turned out to be the good still in Anakin, which Luke was able to redeem out of love.

 

There was dialogue cut from III where Yoda admits that he'd failed and that the Jedi had lost their way. It's about the only thing I remember from The Last Jedi, where Yoda seems to directly reference this in the scene with Luke. He says more or less that the old teachings were irrelevant and it was time to start over and write a new book. Kinda fucken' late, though.

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In my experience, it's all about expectations. If you had years to speculate on who would play Anakin and what the story looked like to make him have two kids, you were probably let down.

 

I'm young enough that I couldn't speculate to advanced degrees about what would happen in the prequels. Hayden was Anakin, and he was awkward around and somewhat forceful to Padmé. But as a kid, you don't question those things--you just accept them as they are.

 

But I had years to form expectations about the sequels. I formed scenes in my head about how certain things or scenes would play out. I don't think the sequels are bad at all--I think there's just a lot of wasted potential in there.

 

You just kind of have to leave your expectations at the door the best you can.

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23 hours ago, Kasey Kockroach said:

Darth Vader sure took a long time to decide to save his kid, didn't he?

 

"FATHER, HELP MMEEEEE!"

"....Do I have to?"

One of the terrible choices in ROTJ.  There is no path to redemption for vader that ever feels right. He became a monster despite Luke's ridiculous "there is still good in him". Next to Vader Hitler seems amateurish. 

 

I killed a planet to save the Universe bullshit never balances.

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Because simple put especially for me, they're better. Sure the prequels were groundbreaking in terms of technology, but even as someone who grew up with all films (The Phantom Menace was everything for me in 1999), I find myself more drawn to rewatch the recent TFA and TLJ much more. Better fleshed-out characters, and lightsaber battle too. Plus the movies don't have the burden of having to set up a massive world and characters that we were already attached to beforehand, the way the prequels did. 

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Maybe they are ground breaking in the way they were shot but as far as visual effects they have never looked good. 

RotS is both literally and figuratively a dumpster fire.

The prequels are an outline for bad filmmaking. For that reason they should be preserved and studied.

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I’ve enjoyed all three trilogies up to this point (as well as Rogue One), but to varying degrees and I’ll concede that while I enjoy the prequel trilogy for all it’s flaws, I still find the sequel trilogy (redundant though it may be) the superior of the two.

 

You just can’t replace good craft, and especially good acting. It’s as simple as that.

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Who is this people? 

 

Almost everyone I know prefers the Prequels to the Disney Sequels. 

 

The Prequels were something special and risky, unlike any other movie until they arrived and any movie since. The sequels are well-made corporate formula movies. No, TLJ isn’t bold and risky, it’s a Marvel formula applied to Star Wars. The Rise of Skywalker is another well-made corporate film.

 

They’re throwing money at it but taking no risks. 

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Why do people prefer the Disney Trilogy to the Prequels?

 

I don't. I think they're both great for different reasons.

 

And no, I haven't read a single post in this thread, because I know what it will say without even looking (my guess is 90% prequel bashing).

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1 hour ago, Thor said:

 

I don't. I think they're both great for different reasons.

 

And no, I haven't read a single post in this thread, because I know what it will say without even looking (my guess is 90% prequel bashing).

 

Uh you'd be surprised. 

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I don’t love the PT, but, I have been thinking lately of what “minimal” changes would have “saved” the PT for me.

 

EPISODE ONE - “More or less TPM.” TPM’s timeframe of 32 BBY is fine, but Kenobi and Skywalker should already be at least at the ages we see them as in AotC. Follows the basic storyline of TPM - Skywalker is a non-Jedi hotshot pilot who meets Kenobi and helps him save a planet. But the conflict in question is the END OF THE CLONE WARS, and instead of Naboo it should feature Alderaan, the planet that Kenobi is general of. Darth Maul no, Count Dooku yes. We get to know other Jedi Knights: quasi-independent wandering warriors with a code; we meet them in the field, not in a council chamber.

 

EPISODE TWO - “More or less RotS.” 19 BBY. Fall of the Republic and of Skywalker. The major difference is that we don’t yet kill off all the Jedi by this point.

 

EPISODE THREE - “More or less R1.” A “Seven Samurai” sort of movie, where the seven heroes are the Jedi we have gotten to know over the past two movies (including Kenobi), and they are being hunted down by Darth Vader. The Rebel Alliance is established; more Bail and Leia.

 

There are still a ton of small changes I would make even with all the above being said, but the one major change would be to recast Anakin Skywalker completely. They got him all wrong! He shouldn’t have been a pretty boy, but a serious man with pathos - a great man who falls into great evil.

 

sebastian-shaw.jpg

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On 12/14/2019 at 11:32 PM, Þekþiþm said:

I mean it's so ridiculous. The Disney movies have boring characters, are a bit full of themselves, and seem to be fixated on pleasing demographics and maximising sales through mass appeal. And it's hard to accept anything from the Disneyverse as canon anyway since George Lucas isn't involved. I mean, the guy IS Star Wars, not all these other hangers-on.

 

But the prequels, man. Those were where it was all happening. They had a clear direction, a visionary leader, a greater sense of unified artistry. And ROTS, that movie is amazing. It's a film that moves, and has suspense and things are happening all the time. You always remember the dialogue in these movies too. They're about things too, like a man's love for his woman. They're great!

 

But these sterile Disney flicks? Do people just go for these because of brand loyalty that's been drilled into them since the early 90s? I'm thankfully immune to their dainty princessy crap for kids, but it seems everyone else is enamoured by it. Makes me feel sick.

 

Well. That's just like- Your opinion.

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Identity politics and Star Wars do not mesh well. 

On 12/17/2019 at 1:59 AM, publicist said:

 

What's infuriating about this is not that these Hollywood movies trying for inclusion, but they are often doing it in a dumb, condescending and patriarchical way - which is part of the reason why it's easy for guys like Trump pointing his finger at them.

Yes, that's the beef I have with this movement, doesn't it all feel so hollow? Superficial? Corporations playing into the diversity quota run the risk of doing the exact opposite of what any ideal of multiculturalism should be, to the point of discrimination based on race or ethnicity! So hollow and evil.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Identity politics and Star Wars do not mesh well. 

 

On the contrary, Luke's whole arc in the original trilogy is about how he defines his identity.

 

The reason you don't think they mesh well is because you don't care for identity politics.

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Identity politics are why Labour got slaughtered in the UK general election. Social media... the likes of Reddit and Twitter, they thought they had the outcome sewn up, but as usual the cringy echo chamber achieved nothing and new world socialism was rejected as the quaint ideal it is. 

 

I suppose in the case of Star Wars one could argue that the new films are more vibrant. Or are they more dull? Well, if they are; at least they'll never be as dull as the prequels.

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