Holko 9,397 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 The current prologue with Kylo meeting Palps and the SDs rising out of the planet and everything was originally much later, the film opened with a longer Luke/Leia training flashback. I guess they figured they'd just get it out of the way, no need to build up or explain Palps, people already know he's in it from the trailers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Share Posted December 22, 2019 Right... but the music in OST track 01 doesn't sound like it would fit a Luke/Leia training sequence, so I think if JW scored that prologue we still haven't heard it, and what we have in OST track 01 is from some version of a Kylo Ren prologue... or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,467 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 I think what during the conversation Palpatine mentions Rey - that could be the occasion of playing Rey's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,042 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 22, 2019 9 hours ago, Tom said: Is it just my imagination, or did Williams put the Raiders music in during the emperor face-melting scene similar to the Raider's scene? The music for that scene is on the FYC and the OST (it's in Seeing Sights FYC / The Force Is With You OST) 4 hours ago, Tydirium said: The music when Kylo fights the Knights of Ren and Rey fights Palpatine's guards is quite possibly my #1 most wanted unreleased cue... It's an absolute travesty that wasn't included on either the OST or FYC. Here it is. Amazing unreleased variations of Rey's Theme and Ren's Theme Tydirium, Edmilson, David Story and 9 others 9 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,166 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 Thanks! Easily one of my favorite parts of the sequel scores. What a shame that it was left off the OST; as far as Ren/Rey team-up music goes, I'd take this over TLJ's "A New Alliance" any day. I especially love that light-side Kylo theme at 0:45. It seems like almost all of his post-redemption material was left off the OST, another real shame. "Parents" at the very least would have been a great inclusion. SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,839 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 On 12/21/2019 at 5:42 PM, Jay said: Here's Rey exploring the Death Star II. Can we tell from this if the "Darth Vader's Death" part at the end is tracked in from ROTJ or new? This definitely sounds tracked to me. I was disappointed by how much tracking there was in the film. I am curious about the thinking behind certain music choices like the music from AOTC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,042 Posted December 22, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 22, 2019 On 12/21/2019 at 3:50 PM, King Mark said: Aaaaand my most wanted unreleased cue ever: The spectacular, glorious version of the Star Wars main theme during the space battle. That was NOT the Main Title version at all. I can't believe nobody is mentioning it. 23 hours ago, Will said: Hmm... I had thought that version was very similar to the "Main Title" but perhaps I was wrong. 23 hours ago, King Mark said: NO, it had new epic orchestrations with horns I think and had new passages 23 hours ago, Will said: It does sound like a new recording to me, although some parts seem very similar to the old arrangements. 23 hours ago, King Mark said: It's like a super epic version of the End Credits Luke's Theme mixed with Chasm Crossfire ,This is probably the BEST variation of Luke's Theme ever 18 hours ago, DarthDementous said: That was a big stand out moment for me in the cinema and I'm disappointed it wasn't on the FYC or the OST. 7 hours ago, Hedji said: That music and scene brought tears to my eyes. 6 hours ago, Alan said: One of many absolutely stunning musical moments that didn't make the album or FYC! Here it is I think out of any cue in the film that isn't on the OST, this is the one that most SHOULD HAVE BEEN. It's not only the narrative and emotional climax of the movie, but the entire sequel trilogy, and the entire saga. And it features a glorious new rendition and reworking of what has been used as the main title theme for all 9 episodes. What was he thinking skipping over this one? Taikomochi, TSMefford, crumbs and 11 others 11 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post artguy360 1,839 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 I love how the music continues to play over the action. The tone of the music stays celebratory instead of reverting to kinetic action music. I wish JW did more of that throughout the ST. Alan, Edmilson, DarthDementous and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Andy 4,000 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 For me, part of it was that the "Star Wars" Theme or "Luke's Theme" if you prefer, was held back so much from the Prequels. It was almost off limits. TFA teased its return in small heroic or emotional moments, but we haven't had it played with such unashamed bravado on screen in the past 42 years. Sometimes it's nice to get exactly what you wanted musically and cinematically. For me, at least. eitam, Cerebral Cortex, Alan and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Jay said: I think out of any cue in the film that isn't on the OST, this is the one that most SHOULD HAVE BEEN. It's not only the narrative and emotional climax of the movie, but the entire sequel trilogy, and the entire saga. And it features a glorious new rendition and reworking of what has been used as the main title theme for all 9 episodes. What was he thinking skipping over this one? JW album logic. Why put a lengthy cue on there featuring something you hear at length both in the main and end titles, when you can use the space for more original music? But this is the kind of scoring that should have taken place in many instances of the films, instead of the relentless mickey mousing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Thank you!!! Wow that cue really is great - I particularly love the final few seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brundlefly 2,382 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 Just came back from the theatre. The score in context with the film is so dull! Nick Parker, Edmilson and gkgyver 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 887 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 17 hours ago, Jay said: Are you guys talking about the quote at the end of this unreleased cue? Yes, that's what I was referring to. It does sound like it's tracked from "Betrayal at Bespin": Is that the only reference of the theme in Rise of Skywalker? I don't recall hearing it anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bayesian 1,348 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 The attention to detail being paid to the score by so many people in this thread is amazing. I saw the film last night and I couldn’t keep track of all the moments where I heard music I loved but not found on the OST or FYC. For now, I’ll say that I adore how Rey’s theme on piano (from The Force is with you; OST) was saved for the moment after Palpatine drains her and the camera is on her lifeless face. It was a magical use of color for an important and poignant moment. DolceMecha, Cerebral Cortex, Tiburon and 4 others 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,274 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 Agreed, it was the only moment of subtlety in the whole film so I'm glad JW scored it so tenderly. Beautiful musical moment. Docteur Qui, Cerebral Cortex and Bayesian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,615 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 14 hours ago, Jay said: I think out of any cue in the film that isn't on the OST, this is the one that most SHOULD HAVE BEEN. It's not only the narrative and emotional climax of the movie, but the entire sequel trilogy, and the entire saga. And it features a glorious new rendition and reworking of what has been used as the main title theme for all 9 episodes. What was he thinking skipping over this one? it's the new Dark Side Beckons .I still remember how crushed I was it wasn't on the RotJ OST I pray it's at least somewhere in a Blu Ray menu Oh and it's the kind of cue that will bring Oscar voters attention even if they don't remember the rest of the score Will and Andy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 887 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I sure smiled at that moment. Yeah, I would love to hear that clearly one day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,615 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 how do you save these Clyps. I want to make a playlist of unreleased music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,274 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I had a huge grin on my face when that music came in, plus the moment later on with the big Rebel Fanfare moment (and it was a really fresh take on it, not just another tired rehash). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 14 minutes ago, King Mark said: how do you save these Clyps. I want to make a playlist of unreleased music Yeah, I don't understand where you're getting unreleased music unless you recorded the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Brundlefly said: Just came back from the theatre. The score in context with the film is so dull! It's just... there. Like Williams going through the motions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,000 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 33 minutes ago, King Mark said: it's the new Dark Side Beckons .I still remember how crushed I was it wasn't on the RotJ OST I pray it's at least somewhere in a Blu Ray menu Oh and it's the kind of cue that will bring Oscar voters attention even if they don't remember the rest of the score It's more than the sum of its parts. One one hand, you can say it's just "The Star Wars Theme" played during the scene. On the other hand, you can say that it's Williams saying *choke* goodbye to the galaxy far, far away by coming back to home base where it all began. Truly, truly beautiful. We are blessed to be gifted this moment of film scoring. Molly Weasley and greenturnedblue 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacksonElmore 69 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 not sure if its been mentioned but finn's confession was tracked in during the scene where him and that other ex. stormtrooper girl were talking about their past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,274 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We almost need a thread for the amount of tracked music in the film. I noticed no less than 8 instances of tracked music from ROTJ, ROTS, TFA and TLJ. Peace and Purpose tracked into General Pryde's death Starry Night poorly tracked into the post-crawl tilt down Finn's Confession sounded tracked for that chat with Jannah A Home for the Twins tracked into a chat between Poe and Lando (I think) Darth Vader's Death tracked into the Death Star II Emperor's Throne Room reveal Lesson Two (or whatever you call the cue that follows Rey's lightsaber training cue in TLJ) tracked somewhere, can't remember where A fragment of Attack on the Jakku Village tracked somewhere else A fragment of The Abduction (the part where Kylo swings his saber into Rey's face while she's frozen) I was a little taken aback, considering how much new music Williams recorded (over 3 hours, possibly the most of any sequel). Clearly these were all in the temp track and JJ just preferred them to whatever Williams scored anew. Or they just had to bandaid over last-minute edits? Who knows. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 887 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 And the "Han Solo and the Princess" quote from "Betrayal at Bespin" from The Empire Strikes Back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,274 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Couldn't it be the re-recording from TFA? They recorded two versions of that cue IIRC, one on cello and another exactly like the ESB version. But nothing would surprise me. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 887 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Yes possibly. I just listened again to Han Solo and the General. I'd forgotten that arrangement is basically the same as Betrayal at Bespin. I still think the Rise of Skywalker quote sounds more like Betrayal at Bespin, but that could just be because I've been listening to that for far longer. I'll hand the decision off to someone with better ears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImaginariumStudios Music 0 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Is there any word as to whether or not we'll be getting any sort of special edition or full soundtrack for the sequel trilogy soon? I really want to have all of that music, and Rise of Skywalker definitely has a lot of awesome unreleased music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,274 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 We'll have a better idea when we get the Bluray I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Bayesian said: I saw the film last night and I couldn’t keep track of all the moments where I heard music I loved but not found on the OST or FYC. To be fair to yourself, with as frenzied and breathless as the film is, it's kinda hard trying to focus on any one thing in particular about it, even the music that's buried heavily in most of the mix. Bayesian and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 887 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, ImaginariumStudios Music said: Is there any word as to whether or not we'll be getting any sort of special edition or full soundtrack for the sequel trilogy soon? I really want to have all of that music, and Rise of Skywalker definitely has a lot of awesome unreleased music. I read a comment on Facebook by someone - I forget who - who said they heard a longer set is due next year. I didn't put much stock in that though. If I find the comment - it was somewhere in the "Soundings: The John Williams Appreciation Society" FB group, I'll ask where he heard it. My gut feeling is that if one is in the works, it would still be a secretive project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,274 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Fingers crossed but could just be someone extrapolating from Mike's comments on the Disaster podcast. If I had to extrapolate from his more recent comment warning against an isolated score petition, that implies expansions are still a long way off (unless he's working on them but they're still at risk of being cancelled). Maybe iso tracks were floated for the 4K releases and he argued against it, out of concern some executive would question why they're spending money on soundtrack releases when the home video release has isolated scores (the bean counters wouldn't understand the difference, let's be honest). Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,615 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 saw the film a second time .Noticed even more all the great music left off the OST and FYC .There's a bunch of fantastic variations of Kylo Ren's Theme, Rey's theme and the Force theme of course Tydirium, Andy, crumbs and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 5 hours ago, crumbs said: Are we assuming JW just scored a different version of the film where these two sequences were separate and he included both on the album? Or perhaps Journey to Exogol belongs much later in the film but was replaced by a revised cue? I vividly remember the amazing quote of the Emperor’s theme in Prologue (ost at 3:39) actually occurs when Rey is in Exegol. I may be misremembering but I also vaguely recall the opening brass and timpani from “Journey to Exegol” scoring her arrival to the planet in the film. I’m sure someone will correct me on that though. Also anyone else think that descending horn followed by cello at 1:10 in “A New Home” is a subtle quote of Rey’s theme? Specifically the “false” ending of the melody (0:48 of Rey’s Theme concert arrangement). It’s also hinted at on the cellos at 0:16 of “A New Home”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,467 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 hours ago, gkgyver said: It's just... there. Like Williams going through the motions. Williams did perfectly fine. But the score has been hacked to death. If anything, it is JJ's loose motions. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Yes, the score is brilliant in the film, but moreso out of it, it's just that it's chopped up and relegated to a lower mix and drowned out by sound fx in the film. Whoever agreed to the mixes was a heartless coward who didn't have faith in the narrative power of music. It's a disgrace to Williams' legacy in all honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,850 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Arpy said: Yes, the score is brilliant in the film, but moreso out of it, it's just that it's chopped up and relegated to a lower mix and drowned out by sound fx in the film. Whoever agreed to the mixes was a heartless coward who didn't have faith in the narrative power of music. It's a disgrace to Williams' legacy in all honesty. It was originally Ben Burtt. But now it is his apprentice, Matt Wood. Always two there are... no more, no less. MikeH and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 The voice of Grievous, no less. George Lucas's cough might've had a better role in mixing it all together than the fucking noise storm that betrays the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Parker 3,040 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 I too didn't feel much impact of the music in the film. There was so much going on at almost every moment, the music was just another swirl of sensory density. This is not a slight on the score itself, and its intended effect. Frankly I'm shocked at some of the imagination Williams demonstrated given some of the material he was writing for. Like the harp accents in Fleeing from Kijimi scoring something as mundane as dudes shooting other dudes in a hangar? What compelled Williams to do that? EDIT: Somewhat ninja'd by Arpy Edmilson, crumbs, SteveMc and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: It was originally Ben Burtt. But now it is his apprentice, Matt Wood. Always two there are... no more, no less. JJ is the one who signed off on it though. He's responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docteur Qui 1,544 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Arpy said: Yes, the score is brilliant in the film, but moreso out of it, it's just that it's chopped up and relegated to a lower mix and drowned out by sound fx in the film. Whoever agreed to the mixes was a heartless coward who didn't have faith in the narrative power of music. It's a disgrace to Williams' legacy in all honesty. I genuinely think that’s been hard to quantify. I’ve read just as many people here saying the music was mixed super loud as super low. When I saw it it was fine. Of course it’s impossible to get the same consistently in tens/hundreds of thousands of theatres. I’m going to see it in IMAX second time round, it’ll be interesting to hear how it is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I'm going to see it in imax too, to see if the sound will be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,274 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 No other composer could have written a more accomplished, energetic, vibrant score than what Williams did. Frankly I'm astonished he was able to write such an incredible score for such an incoherent mess of a movie, but I shouldn't be surprised. After all, he's made a career doing it (in this saga especially). Remco, Bofur01, Edmilson and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 I want to say he wrote it for the listeners, the fans, because it's betrayed in the film by every other creative choice. I think this might be one of the scores of the saga that has a new and better life removed from the context of the film. crumbs, Will and Tydirium 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bayesian 1,348 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said: To be fair to yourself, with as frenzied and breathless as the film is, it's kinda hard trying to focus on any one thing in particular about it, even the music that's buried heavily in most of the mix. Frenzied, no kidding. It turns out I was misremembering the scene in that last post of mine—Rey wasn’t quite lifeless yet. But everything else I said stands. It was a moment that truly stood out in a film that was throwing everything it could get its hands on at you. I know this because I ended up seeing it again tonight. This time I succeeded in catching the cameo to end all cameos as far as I’ll ever be concerned, and that alone was worth it. My opinion of the film definitely improved after this second viewing. Yes, it has major story flaws, but if you’re willing to not let that totally blind you, you’ll realize that J.J. is actually a really gifted filmmaker. He knows where to put the camera and move it. You can follow his action (unlike, ahem, one M. Bay). The Kylo/Rey duel on the Death Star wreck was truly well done, start to finish—you really felt they were at it for real, that someone was going to lose a limb or worse. Not that J.J. is entirely faultless for the story, but imagine if any other filmmaker walked into a room and was told out of the blue that he had to make a single movie that hit all the goals for a series capper AND solved all the (supposed) problems of the preceding entry AND had to preserve the financial viability of a major entertainment IP and had to do it at breakneck pace... and he came back to you with this movie, you’d have to give him credit for his achievement. Arpy, TSMefford, artguy360 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,709 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I was in awe of the music in the cinema. Mind you, I’d stayed away from the FYC and the OST prior to seeing the film, so I hadn’t heard any of the new arrangements. If they don’t give him an Oscar for this one... crumbs and Tydirium 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bayesian 1,348 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 One more thing that made this second viewing worthwhile... I took some snaps of the end credits. Only where it mattered most. Ricard, Smaug The Iron, Arpy and 7 others 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,274 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Ross was credited as conductor on the last two scores yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,260 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Pretty great the variation on Luke's Theme when Lando arrives. But still, I dunno... JW did the best he could with the idiotic mess he had ahead of him, but his score was so hacked and edited that it felt... weird on the movie. It's more like great little cues stitched together than a coherent score carrying the movie, at least that's what I felt. On TLJ JW at least scored a more final version of the movie, but here Abrams kept changing the cut until the last minute, so there were lots of tracking, hacking, slashing... It's not a musical journey created by the greatest living film composer, but a collection of little snippets of music put at the will of Abrams and his music editors. Don't get me wrong, there were a lot of great musical moments, specially at the end (Farewell, Reunion and A New Home seemed they were mostly left untouched), but overall... It was very odd. SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,042 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 So by my calculations, there's almost 45 minutes of unreleased music heard in the final film, though it's still unclear how much of that is old recordings tracked in... (Apologies to mobile phone users, this chart only looks right on a desktop or tablet.... if you are on mobile, turning your phone sideways helps somewhat) [edit: the chart originally posted here has become outdated; Go to the main post for the most up-to-date version] Bellosh, Tiburon, Edmilson and 8 others 6 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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