Popular Post King Mark 3,631 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 I didn't hear the last part of They Will Come in the film (Farewell theme at the end) .And that whole cue was mixed very badly. 45 minutes is less unreleased music than Last Jedi before we got the iso score. Still, some REALLY important cues missing like Lando Arrives and The Training Course. I'm guessing the recording sessions have much music we haven't heard at all Tydirium, Will and Molly Weasley 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 Yes the film version of many OST cues is shorter than the OST length and that's one of them. Reunion is shorter too. Wasn't really a spot to fit that in the post but that info will be in a fuller google doc when i can finish that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Jay said: There's a ton of music on the OST not heard in the film at all: 01B [1:26-1:45] Fanfare and Prologue 0:00:26 replaced by Starry Night from TFA 01D [1:52-2:52] Fanfare and Prologue 0:01:00 01F [2:58-end] Fanfare and Prologue 1:16:00 02A [0:00-1:02] Journey to Exegol 0:01:02 I think this is actually partially heard as Rey arrives later in the film, hard to hear under sound effects 02C [2:33-end] Journey to Exegol 0:00:16 05 The Speeder Chase 0:03:21 replaced in final cut with new, much less interesting cue 04B [1:19-2:21] The Old Death Star 0:01:01 could be an early version of the trio meeting Jannah's crew 12B [1:05-1:42] The Final Saber Duel 0:00:37 could be an early version of the opening to Healing Wounds? 11A [0:00-0:57] They Will Come 0:00:57 could be an early version of the resistance discovering Rey's message coming from Luke's X-Wing? 13A [0:00-1:12] Battle of the Resistance 0:01:12 Did JJ really delete a minute of battle footage from the final cut? The trumpet rendition of the ROS theme in "Approaching the Throne" is missing from the film too, right? I noticed that the film version of that track appeared to have been further altered from even the FYC, with some spots repeated and then of course that theme missing. Will and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 I'm not sure. I didn't pay attention to some of the cues towards the end of the film that were on the FYC because I was trying to finish up the analysis. I did notice that the final like 2 seconds of one cue was missing in the final cut despite being intact on the FYC, I think it was Rescue, can't remember now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 27 minutes ago, King Mark said: I didn't hear the last part of They Will Come in the film (Farewell theme at the end) . Yeah that was one of my big disappointments - appeared to have been replaced with tracked March of the Resistance concert version from TFA. 11 minutes ago, Tydirium said: The trumpet rendition of the farewell theme in "Approaching the Throne" is missing from the film too, right? I noticed that the film version of that track appeared to have been further altered from even the FYC, with some spots repeated and then of course that theme missing. Yeah I'm not 100% sure as it's been a few days since I saw the film, but I do seem to remember being annoyed that the trumpet Farewell theme was missing in the film. Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 3 hours ago, Will said: Yeah that was one of my big disappointments - appeared to have been replaced with tracked March of the Resistance concert version from TFA. Yeah I'm not 100% sure as it's been a few days since I saw the film, but I do seem to remember being annoyed that the trumpet Farewell theme was missing in the film. Yep. I must say, for all the good stuff the OST is apparently missing, I am at the very least so glad that we got that rendition of the ROS theme on there at the end of "They Will Come". And same^; was looking forward to that trumpet version! The limited use of the ROS theme in the film I guess is one of the contributing factors to why I view it as sort of a saga-closing theme, rather than one associated with any specific characters or anything. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bayesian 1,363 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 hour ago, King Mark said: 45 minutes is less unreleased music than Last Jedi before we got the iso score. Still, some REALLY important cues missing like Lando Arrives and The Training Course. The Training Course missing from the OST is an absolute tragedy. The whole cue is wonderful. Will, Tydirium, igger6 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 So, the longest stretches of movie with unreleased music are: Parts of the first scenes, with almost 4 minutes of unreleased music (mostly about Ren and Palpy, and Rey and Leia). Almost all of the Pasaana sequence, with almost 15 minutes of unreleased music (we only have In the Desert and A Prisoner, and both on the FYC). The heroes on Kimiji, with almost 6 minutes of unreleased music (FYC resuming from Fleeing from Kimiji and the action scene during First Order's ship) The scenes between the Rey vs Ren duel on Kef Bir and Ren seeing Han (FYC 15 Advice) and the final confrontation, with almost 13 and a half minutes of unreleased music. Some material during the climax, from Coming Together to Seeing Sights, with a little more than 4 minutes of unreleased music (and, therefore, excluding crucial material, like Ren vs Knights of Ren and Lando Arrives). That said, if you consider the movie's climax goes from Arrival at Exegol to Farewell, that's about 26 and half minutes of music (considering tracked material), only 7 minutes and 46 seconds of which are unreleased, or even less, not considering Peace and Purpose. Not so bad as I've thought (although I still miss the Lando Arriving cue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alex 2,835 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 The film JW scored is definitely completely different to the one in cinemas. Fabulin, crumbs and Edmilson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,352 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 Since every cue we can hear on the OST is longer than its version in the film, we can assume all or at least most of the completely unreleased cues are actually shorter edits of the full versions of those as well, so there's probably closer to an hour of unreleased cues we know about, plus who knows how many additional cues for scenes that were completely deleted, or earlier versions of cues for scenes we have. We need Matessino to be allowed to go through everything recorded for the sequel trilogy and construct complete releases! Also: I really wish the FYC had been longer that 50 minutes! There's lots of unreleased cues that don't feature old themes that could have been included. Holko, Edmilson, Andy and 5 others 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Meanwhile I wish that sith cult chanting had been made a part of the music. As silly as it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 Since it's not on the OST or FYC version of Approaching The Throne, I assume it was a creation of the sound effects team, not the music team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 According to the spreadsheet, there's 2h04m12s of music on the movie, which makes it a little less densely scored than The Last Jedi (basically, 87.4% of the movie contains music, while on TLJ this percentage was about 92%). Now, if we exclude the tracked music from other movies, how much music composed for TROS are on the actual score for the movie? I guestimate something between 115 minutes and 120 minutes. But we won't know for sure until we actually have a more detailed analysys on the tracked music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 In the Don Williams interview, he said 135 minutes had been recorded already, and that was before the final sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Didn't John Burligame's article mention 3 hours of music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 Yea Quote for “The Rise of Skywalker,” he penned more than three hours of music, though the film itself only runs two and a half hours: New or revised music was needed throughout the recording process, which took 11 days between mid-July and late November. https://variety.com/2019/music/production/john-williams-star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-1203446034/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Yeah, but Burligame specifically said Williams penned (as in wrote) 3 hours of music, while Don Williams said they recorded 135 minutes of music. So, the 3 hours Williams wrote might not necessarily been all recorded, and maybe they include early versions of themes, cues, etc., that doesn't exactly got to the recording stage. I guess we can estimate about 150 minutes of music were recorded, 120 minutes of which were used in the movie (excluding the tracked material). On the half and hour left, 11 minutes are on the unused OST material and the other 8 minutes are the concert suites (The Rise of Skywalker and Anthem of Evil). By this calculation, we have a little more than 11 minutes of music that was unheard, either on movie or on the OST/FYC, probably because it didn't made the final cut of the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 No, the Don Williams interview was from a few months ago, BEFORE more music was recorded. Burlingame meant 3 hours was written AND was recorded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Really? I knew this numbers were looking suspiciously small. So, let's redo the math. Music composed for TROS that appears on the movie: 120 minutes Unused material on the OST: 11m08s Concert suites: 7m42s Music we heard (either on movie or on album): 2h18m50s Let's imagine 190 minutes (3h10m) of music were recorded. So, there is 51m10s of music we didn't hear yet (alternates, deleted scenes, etc). This seems about right for every ST Williams score. 3h of recorded music, about 1h on each unheard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 It's depressing really. We got the Star Wars Anthology box set in 1993, which 16 years after ANH, 13 years after TESB, and 10 years after ROTJ. Then more definitive 2CD sets of each in 1997, 20 years after ANH, 17 years after TESB, and 14 years after ROTJ. We never got more prequel music except for the TPM UE 1 year after TPM For the Sequel Trilogy we have no idea what will happen. Here's hoping Disney Records is just waiting for the new year to green light spending the money to hire Mike and license all the LA recorded music (WITH CHOIR) for proper 3 CD sets of each score! 2020 will already be 5 years after TFA. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eitam 364 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Wow, Jay, thank you for the massive amount of work you put into this! Among the longer unreleased cues you listed, I wonder what It's Ren, The Speeder Chase movie version, Incoming Destroyer, The Destruction of Kijimi, and Poe & Leia sound like (I already know that Training Course, Intel and Rey & Ren Team Up sound great thanks to the samples you posted!) If the complete releases come some day, I wonder if they'll favor the music as heard in the movie (could be quite messy) or the listening experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 The Speeder Chase film version is on page 8 The other ones you mention are loaded with sound effects/dialogue and hard to hear the music Once the film comes out on home video/streaming, we'll be able to hear the music better by ripping the rear channels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 @Jay can you compilate all the unreleased material you posted here in a single easy to find post, as well as the spreadsheet? Maybe on the first post of this thread? It'll be much easier for us to find all this wonderful stuff much more easily, and facilitate further research. Thanks! Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 The spreadsheet is already in the main post Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I think he meant if you could post the sound clips in addition to the spreadsheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted December 23, 2019 Author Share Posted December 23, 2019 I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,525 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 Could Anthem of Evil be a discarded piece for the Throne Room reveal/exploration/Kylo arrival? Maybe with a concertesque ending/extension. I loathed that piece of tracking, so unfitting and badly looped, I just want to grab onto anything How the hell did JJ manage to make the Farewell theme have zero presence and impact in the film? It's actually quite impressive in a way. Lots of nice unreleased highlights but it never felt like a thought-out coherent whole of a score, unlike it does outside of the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,310 Posted December 23, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2019 25 minutes ago, Holko said: Lots of nice unreleased highlights but it never felt like a thought-out coherent whole of a score, unlike it does outside of the film. No doubt a reflection of the hacked up mess that actually got released. Clearly not the same movie JW spotted in March. Tiburon, Cerebral Cortex, Will and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Holko said: How the hell did JJ manage to make the Farewell theme have zero presence and impact in the film? It's actually quite impressive in a way. I agree, some of the score was mixed well, but not that theme whenever it appeared Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,310 Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I dunno, I didn't hear that theme until the film itself and it left a decent impact on me (by comparison, I didn't have a clue what Rey's Theme was after the first time I saw TFA). Maybe just a case of different sound systems presenting the score differently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Honestly I didnt even recognize any new themes in the movie (I held back on listening to most of the music before I saw the movie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,310 Posted December 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2019 The Knights of Ren motif was probably the most obvious of the lot (but it's the new Peter Pettigrew motif). Jay, igger6 and Molly Weasley 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned but is it confirmed that the TFA music before the credits is newly recorded and not tracked? 1 minute ago, crumbs said: The Knights of Ren motif was probably the most obvious of the lot (but it's the new Peter Pettigrew motif). For me it was the main ROS theme... stood out like a beautiful thumb whenever it played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 . crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,310 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 It's definitely a new horn solo of Binary Sunset so I doubt it was tracked from the TFA sessions. But it was almost certainly temped that way, unfortunately (it's easily my biggest criticism of the score, just copying the TFA finale; seriously JW? Not even a new arrangement?) igger6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Is it possible he was requested by JJ, to reuse the TFA finale? Since the other film he did that ending for was also a JJ film. That was just my first thought when I heard it. But yes, I do wish it was something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 All 3 films end on Binary Sunset. So did the one before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,310 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 You can end on Binary Sunset but at least arrange the transition into the end credits fanfare differently! Just recycling the TFA transition note for note was thoroughly disappointing. greenturnedblue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 If a film/score thats full of what we've had before, this is the least of my gripes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,310 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Well I only have two gripes in total and that's one of them. Meanwhile, on the subject of unused music, from a Q&A with the sound crew: Quote Sound Design/mixing: David Acord and Matthew Wood talked about the contrast in sound in the scene where Rey goes head to head with Kylo's ship. Rey's sound was very subtle vs Kylo's ship which was very dramatic to show contrast. They also mentioned it was a touch call to have that silence because it meant cutting out some on John Williams music for that scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted December 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2019 I'm going to find Matthew Wood and come to his house dressed as General Grievous and kill him. No Joke. Holko, Molly Weasley, MikeH and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lairdo 726 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 My sister said something to me today about the music which I think is interesting as she is a big fan but not as hardcore into John Williams as those here or me. She said she loved the old themes coming back over and over because it made her feel like she was "home." That was probably JJ's intent where he pulled more in and switched out JW's music in places even taking music from other movies. While I would have preferred to hear just the new pieces and the music as written and conceived by the Maestro, my more casual fan sister thoroughly enjoyed what was there without feeling it could have been newer or different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Yeah, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's lazy. I can forgive this score for fan service, but there are one or two times throughout the trilogy where it sounds like Williams just plonked the theme there wIthout any cohesive gel. I do love how Yoda's theme transitions into Rey's (2:16 -) in Reunion: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 5 hours ago, crumbs said: The Knights of Ren motif was probably the most obvious of the lot (but it's the new Peter Pettigrew motif). Isn't it basically the same? Only the background percussion is new. Otherwise it literally sounded the exact same to my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 52 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said: Isn't it basically the same? Only the background percussion is new. Otherwise it literally sounded the exact same to my ears. Same as what? Did you mean to quote a different post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post igger6 894 Posted December 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 24, 2019 Does it strike anyone else as an obvious oversight to reveal that big podrace stadium full of Sith fans and not have them chanting "Korah, Ratama..."? For twenty years, whenever I heard the opening of "Duel of the Fates," I've been picturing some ancient, insidious cult ritual, and now that's literally what we get onscreen, and the theme is MIA. If I'm JJ, that's the first request I make in the spotting session. Molly Weasley, DolceMecha and Smeltington 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 I can confirm the theater your in makes a HUGE difference First 2 viewings I saw it in "Super AVX" and the sound was so-so .A lot of the music came out of the side speakers and sounded tinny and harsh like it was just mids and highs .That was immediately apparent in the Main Title Crawl and all the string pieces that didn't sound lush (like Farewell theme) I saw it a third time in IMAX and the sound system was spectacular .All the music sounded full range and had bass frequencies and had a better presence in the mix Molly Weasley and Mattris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 Was it even THX certified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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