Jay 37,359 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 Ah, I see IMDB has finally added the two source cues! Soundtrack Credits Lido Hey Written by Lin-Manuel Miranda and J.J. Abrams Produced and Performed by Shag F. Kava Oma's Place Written, Produced and Performed by Ricky Tinez and J.J. Abrams https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2527338/soundtrack They were not there before Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 21 hours ago, First TROS March Accolyte said: Doesn't he say that about the Millenium Falcon? Edit: I've found an interesting bit of info on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/eisnd8/heres_what_ive_been_told_from_a_source_that/ What is the implication here? That the Kylo v Knights of Ren music is tracked for somewhere else and JJ doesn't agree with that choice? OR Does JJ does not agree with the music JW wrote for that scene? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I think pretty clearly the former. JJ was at the scoring sessions; he would have known what music had been written for the scene, and would have either agreed with JW's choice or asked him to change it. The implication seems to be that the editors stuck in music that didn't belong in that scene, without JJ's permission. The fact that this was allegedly a reaction he had during a screening of the movie, goes to show it was an editing choice he disagreed with. If it was JW's music itself, he'd have had the reaction way earlier, on the scoring stage or at the very latest, in the editing room. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mstrox 6,651 Posted January 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2020 The implication is that JJ had wanted a badass epic version of Duel of the Fates, but voila, the movie ended up having some brand new appropriate Kylo-themed scoring there (magically? without JJ Abrams' knowledge?) The whole Reddit "leak" reads like a wishlist of things a very specific group of nerds has been very vocal about on social media since the movie came out - the very type that hang out on that subreddit, in fact - and a bonzo conspiracy theory built around why those things weren't in it. It was all a Machiavellian plot by Kathleen Kennedy and Disney to sandbag their franchise, despite Hero JJ's valiant efforts, in order to thwart an already floundering competitor franchise because someday maybe JJ Abrams will do something in that! (forget that James Gunn is already actively working on a DC movie and welcomed back into the Marvel fold) Brando, Edmilson, Tiburon and 9 others 9 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I finally saw that it appeared on r/saltierthancrait, so, yeah, it instantly lost any credibility it had for me. Disco Stu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,359 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2020 Unreleased music The Emperor instructs General Pryde to destroy Kijimi set to an unreleased cue featuring Anthem of Evil, followed by The Imperial March tracked in from Journey to Exegol as it is shown that that Star Destroyers now have planet killing weapons installed underneath them. As Kijimi is destroyed, a great unreleased variant of Anthem of Evil plays. On Ajan Kloss, Poe and the resistance process the news, with The Emperor's Theme tracked in from Birth of the Twins from Revenge of the Sith playing as Beaumont reads the Emperor's message out loud. Next we hear music tracked in from Plans for the Twins from Revenge of the Sith: Leia's Theme is as Poe visits her body, and by The Force Theme as Lando arrives and begins talking to Poe. D-0 is looking through some of Rey's belongings, and Finn and D-0 both share that they miss Rey. All of a sudden, Finn is telling Poe that D-0 has information about Exegol as Poe's Theme plays. As Finn begins sharing the information, The Resistance Theme plays. OST 06 Destiny of a Jedi 5:12 Rey is on Ach-To (the intended opening of this cue [0:00-0:06] is replaced by the flourish heard from [1:02-1:08] in the final cut), and has set Kylo's TIE Fighter on fire while some porgs watch. Rey's Theme plays as she holds her lightsaber out, and there is a crescendo as she tosses it towards the flaming wreckage. The Force Ghost of Luke Skywalker catches it however, and The Force Theme plays as he walks through the burning wreckage towards her and scolds her for disrespecting the weapon. Later, Rey tells Luke she plans to settle on Ach-To and never leave so she does not become the dark vision she saw of herself on the throne. Luke reveals he and Leia knew Rey was a Palpatine all along (wtf?), and a unique oboe (?) rendition of Rey's Theme plays as Luke tells her that Leia saw the good in her. This transitions into The Force Theme as Luke tells Rey that the destiny is a Jedi is to confront fear, and that Rey must face Palpatine or it will mean the end of the Jedi and the war will be lost... and that he has something Leia wanted her to have. A non-thematic passage covers Luke showing Rey where Leia's saber is hidden behind a stone in his hut, and Leia's theme plays as she takes it out and a flashback is shown showing young Luke and Leia training together. Luke tells Rey that Leia had sensed that her son would die in the future, so she surrendered her saber to him and told him that one day it would be picked up again by someone who would continue her journey. Luke's theme plays as he says that a thousand generations of Jedi live in Rey, and that she will take both sabers to Exegol and she has everything she needs to get there. We Go Together plays as she realizes the other Wayfinder is in the burning wreckage, which she grabs, and the music transitions into Yoda's Theme arranged as it was for Yoda and the Force from The Empire Strikes Back as Force Ghost Luke elevates his old X-Wing out of the ocean as Rey watches with reverence. Unreleased music Back on Ajan Kloss, 3P0 re-introduces himself to R2 because his memory has been wiped, but then R2 quickly restores it then indicates he has picked up a signal. Finn and Poe plug D-0 into a computer to try to figure out how to get to Exegol, until they are interrupted by 3P0 letting them know the signal R2 received is from Luke. All of this is unscored. Score returns with an exciting, up-beat cue as they examine the transmission and realize that it is Rey showing them how to get to Exegol, and we see her piloting Luke's X-Wing through the maw. We Go Together plays as Finn says says "she"s showing us how to get there", and Poe says "We go together". The resistance group gathers, with Beaumont collecting Chewie who is still shown to be grieving Leia. Poe, Finn and Rose lay out a plan to the group set to a lengthy new rendition of The Resistance Theme. After Beaumont has a line asking about doing a Holdo maneuver, there is clear ADR and an odd cut which seems to cover some removed footage: OST 11 They Will Come 2:50 The music heard in the first 57 seconds of the OST track are not heard in the film at all, could possible have been written for the missing footage just mentioned, or anything from around there or elsewhere, or could be something recorded specifically for the album. Film and OST are the same only from 0:57-2:09, starting with a rendition of The Victory Theme, which covers Finn and Poe outlying their plan to win, which includes Lando and Chewie gathering good people to fight with them. This leads right into The Resistance Theme, which covers a montage of various Resistance members preparing for the battle and taking off, intercut with the end of Finn and Poe's speeches. Since the film only follows what is heard on the OST from until 2:09, the sweeping rendition of The Victory Theme heard at the end of the album track is entirely absent from the film, and could have been written for a different or longer speech/preparation/takeoff montage, or could be something recorded specifically for the album. The film segues from the 2:09 point right into to 22 seconds of music tracked in from The March of the Resistance from The Force Awakens to cover the end of the montage. crumbs, Edmilson, Will and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DominicCobb 194 Posted January 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2020 51 minutes ago, Jay said: Unreleased music Leia's Theme is heard as Poe visits her body, which is quickly followed by The Force Theme as Lando arrives and begins talking to Poe. Could be wrong but that sounds a lot like this to me Will, Jay, Taikomochi and 4 others 2 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 Holy cow, you're right. So that's enough more tracking, wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evanus 217 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Yeah noticed that right away, lots of ROTS snippets in this score crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaug The Iron 515 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Jay said: Note: The section with Leia's Theme does not appear in the OST version of this cue, so it seemingly either an Insert or tracked music. What do you mean? You can here Leia's Theme at 3.16 on the OST. Or is it a different version in the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 Shoot you're right, it's right there on the OST, I dunno what happened. Sounds the same as the film. I'll fix it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,631 Posted January 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2020 You know when I listen to The Force Awakens, I never get the impression that it's a Williams masterpiece, even if you factor in the unreleased music and the unused music we haven't heard. With The Rise of Skywalker, I feel that the OST + FYC is just short of a masterpiece, but if we had 3-4 more cues like Rey Training, Shuttle Force Pull ,Fighting the Guards and Lando Returns it WOULD reach masterpiece status, and with the unused music we haven't heard and no tracked bullshit it might be one of the best SW scores ever (above all the ST and Prequels) Smaug The Iron, Holko, Tydirium and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,359 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2020 It's really not just The Training Course and Lando Returns that are crucial missing highlights, Fighting The Guards is just as crucial too. All three should have been on the OST and/or FYC Smaug The Iron, Arpy, Will and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 I wanted to add that cue too but I for got what it was named when I typed my post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,359 Posted January 3, 2020 Author Share Posted January 3, 2020 We don't know any of the names, I just made up my own. Some day the names will appear on BMI like they did for TFA and TLJ! Looks like we got TLJ's in late February, before we even knew there'd be an iso score https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/28314-the-last-jedi-cue-titles-now-available/ Though it looks like we didn't have TFA's until two and a half years after the film came out so who can predict these things https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25913-the-force-awakens-complete-score-breakdown-chronological-order-film-spoilers-allowed/&do=findComment&comment=1516250 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 3, 2020 Share Posted January 3, 2020 Just another reminder of how much better a score ROTS is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post King Mark 3,631 Posted January 3, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 3, 2020 Right now Revenge of the Sith is about tied with Rise of Skywalker for me I was thinking maybe an earlier scene of Reunion had Force Ghost Yoda and then Force Ghost Luke + Leia and why their themes are there . I really doubt Williams would have scored the Lando+ whoever scene with Luke and Leia Arpy, Will and Smeltington 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominicCobb 194 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 It's hard for me to think of this as anything but the least of the ST scores for me, at least at the moment. TFA had a whole host of fantastic new themes to did into, while TLJ spent a lot of time further developing those themes, with a lot of great, long set pieces to build lengthy pieces. The themes in TROS are nice, but they don't stack up against TFA. The further development of themes in TROS is nice too, but the lengthy sequences aren't there. Obviously I don't blame JW. But the Prologue is a mess, so we don't really have the same sort of fun opening like the last two films (the heavily edited Escape is a great, long piece even when listening to the film version). The final battle is where we might have expected some really exciting and big pieces for the battle (like Crait, Naboo, Endor, and Hoth before it) but, to me, "Battle of the Resistance" doesn't make the same sort of impression. I guess part of the issue is missing music. The final third would be a lot more impressive when considering not just the OST, but the FYC and 'Lando Arrives' and 'Fighting the Guards.' Still, missing a little something, perhaps, but ultimately we must blame JJ primarily. Hopefully if we ever do get an isolated or expanded score my feelings can evolve (like they did on TLJ which I thought initially was just too heavily reliant on old themes). Bryant Burnette and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, King Mark said: Right now Revenge of the Sith is about tied with Rise of Skywalker for me I was thinking maybe an earlier scene of Reunion had Force Ghost Yoda and then Force Ghost Luke + Leia and why their themes are there . I really doubt Williams would have scored the Lando+ whoever scene with Luke and Leia I thought for sure Yoda would turn up in ghost form, but I think it's sweet that the role was transferred to Luke to be the wise mentor he wasn't in TLJ. He's now atoning for his mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 @DominicCobb I agree with your post 100%, especially the part about TLJ. TROS is my least favorite SW score (not counting Solo or Rogue One.) It's good but I hope I grow to like it more like I did TLJ. I still appreciate @Jay's hard work with this breakdown. It helps a lot. DominicCobb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Due to the poor editing of the film itself, there really aren't any set piece sequences therefore no set piece cues. The Speeder Chase is the closest thing and both the film and music are chopped into a mess. Just compare New Alliances from TLJ to Rey fighting the guards and Kylo fighting the Rens in TROS. The former is a distinct action scene where the camera shows off the choreography and the music has the opportunity to stand apart as an action cue. I honestly don't remember what music plays in the latter but the visuals definitely did not highlight the action or choreography. The film tries to emphasize the drama but I remember it to be visually messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 30 minutes ago, artguy360 said: Due to the poor editing of the film itself, there really aren't any set piece sequences therefore no set piece cues. The Speeder Chase is the closest thing and both the film and music are chopped into a mess. Just compare New Alliances from TLJ to Rey fighting the guards and Kylo fighting the Rens in TROS. The former is a distinct action scene where the camera shows off the choreography and the music has the opportunity to stand apart as an action cue. I honestly don't remember what music plays in the latter but the visuals definitely did not highlight the action or choreography. The film tries to emphasize the drama but I remember it to be visually messy. Even in its highly edited form, the TROS action music is far, far better than the stabby, mickey-mousy approach for TLJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,314 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 I much prefer the action music in TLJ to TROS. Calling an action cue like The Battle of Crait "stabby, mickey mousing" seems like a gross oversimplification. There's longform musical ideas in there that Williams is able to develop and build over many minutes. The dramatic arc of Escape is unbelievable when you listen in complete form (and even still, we're missing big chunks of it). It builds and builds in tension masterfully, no other composer is capable of writing stuff this advanced (much less in their 80s). His approach for TROS seems directly influenced by the return of Abrams, modular to compensate for chunks being deleted all over the place. He probably wonders why he even bothered with a track like Speeder Chase, given what happened to it. DominicCobb, Tiburon, Smaug The Iron and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post artguy360 1,843 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Not Mr. Big said: Even in its highly edited form, the TROS action music is far, far better than the stabby, mickey-mousy approach for TLJ. The action music, use of motifs, and sweeping dramatic music in Escape is far more coherent (especially the OST version) and developed than pretty much all the action music in TROS. My impression is that JW was writing music to mostly finished edits in TLJ whereas TROS kept changing right to the very end and so the music is heavily chopped up as a result, including the action music. DominicCobb, Edmilson, Tiburon and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, crumbs said: I much prefer the action music in TLJ to TROS. Calling an action cue like The Battle of Crait "stabby, mickey mousing" seems like a gross oversimplification. There's longform musical ideas in there that Williams is able to develop and build over many minutes. The dramatic arc of Escape is unbelievable when you listen in complete form (and even still, we're missing big chunks of it). It builds and builds in tension masterfully, no other composer is capable of writing stuff this advanced (much less in their 80s). His approach for TROS seems directly influenced by the return of Abrams, modular to compensate for chunks being deleted all over the place. He probably wonders why he even bothered with a track like Speeder Chase, given what happened to it. Cues like "Escape" and "Battle of Crait" just feel choppy and directionless to me - like a series of concert arrangement clips pasted together and punctuated by 15 second segments of new original score. This is almost definitely to blame on Rian Johnson's minimal spotting sessions, and the obvious, uninspired temp-track. TROS's action cues might not be as long but they feel like they have more of John Williams' creative input. We get a ton of new interesting thematic ideas one-after-the-other in the span of a couple minutes. Despite the short length, they still feel memorable and properly developed (a good example of this is the Last Crusade-esque spooky-mysterious action melody heard at 2:25 of Approaching the Throne - in the span of a minute or so, it features three melodic components of the same idea before seamlessly transitioning into action statements of the Victory theme and then March of the Resistance) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DominicCobb 194 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 I mean, in terms of action cues, it's very short of course but there's no moment for me in TROS that matches Holdo's Resolve. That's a cue that doesn't mickey mouse, and yet is perfectly synced to the visuals and works perfectly across 4 or 5 different intercutting locations to build one of the most fantastic and suspenseful moments in the film. The next cue, Chrome Dome, does have some stabbing and mickey mousing, and that's part of what makes it great for me. Love the cue/scene or not, there's not many moments in TROS where the music is this prominent and tied to the action. Ultimately, when I think of TLJ action cues, I always think of The Supremacy. What a great cue that perfectly weaves the thematic material with the fast paced thrills and dread of the sequence. Not much stabby or mickey-mousy about that one either. Edmilson, Mattris and Taikomochi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,314 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said: Cues like "Escape" and "Battle of Crait" just feel choppy and directionless to me - like a series of concert arrangement clips pasted together and punctuated by 15 second segments of new original score. This is almost definitely to blame on Rian Johnson's minimal spotting sessions, and the obvious, uninspired temp-track. I really could not disagree more. While Escape is indeed 4-5 cues stitched together, they're written in such a way that each cue gradually builds upon the previous one with added tension and heightened desperation, all before the dramatic crescendo as Paige makes her sacrifice. It's operatic, even apart from the film, while also fitting the film itself like a glove (shame the film version is so hacked up). That he accomplishes this dramatic arc across 12 minutes is astonishing. Oh, and there's really only one "obvious" instance of temp-track love in the whole opening sequence -- the Resistance march for the bombers approaching (which is musical perfection anyway). 2 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said: TROS's action cues might not be as long but they feel like they have more of John Williams' creative input. We get a ton of new interesting thematic ideas one-after-the-other in the span of a couple minutes. The constant stream of one-off musical ideas that Williams introduces then discards contributes to the choppy, unfulfilling aspect of the TROS action music. It's actually a perfect metaphor for the film itself. One thing gets introduced and before you have a chance to digest it, he's moved onto the next thing. It's musically infuriating to have brilliant moments like the choral outburst that close Approaching the Throne introduced then dropped after ten seconds and not develop into something more satisfying. The same is true of Battle of the Resistance, which just... ends, likely due to a scene change. We get a spine-tingling rendition of Rey's Theme at 1:41 of The Force Is With You, and it cuts off abruptly right as you're screaming for it to resolve fully. Same with the Emperor's theme moments later. He's setting up brilliance constantly but never gets a chance to see it through, all because the bloody film is in such a rush to end. It'd be like the Dark Side Beckons from ROTJ being interrupted halfway through the big choral moment just to have half a fragment of Vader's Theme or Luke's Theme. These films used to breathe enough that he could establish and develop these ideas to their musical potential. TROS feels like an endless parade of brilliant ideas that never reach their fullest potential (on album and in film anyway -- who knows what was actually recorded). I'm so glad we got at least one film in this trilogy that allowed his music to breathe and develop in long-form, thanks to a director who actually had a vision for their story, and didn't need to hack their movie up endlessly until it resembled one. Tiburon, MikeH, ins and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 If The Speeder Chase had made it into the film intact, that would've made such an amazing action cue to rival most of the setpieces from the last two scores. It's one of my favourite tracks on the OST, but when I hear it, I can't help but feel a little pang of remorse and frustration that what I'm listening to is such a powerful piece and it's just not there in the film. It's like Williams gave them this gift and they thought, eh, it's a little too Star Wars-y and distracts from the sounds of the blasters and explosions. Even with TRoS' scatterbrained pacing, I still find it a more compelling score than the rather tame TLJ. There's too many gems. MikeH, Not Mr. Big, Cerebral Cortex and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,314 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 In that Indy podcast the host mentioned he could ask Matt Wood what happened to the cue in the final cut, because it's absolutely baffling to me. As you say, Williams handed them this amazing piece of music on a silver platter, and JJ gave Williams the middle finger in return. It's really no surprise the rest of the action music sounds the way it does, nor why Williams doesn't bother writing action cues like this anymore. Cues like The Asteroid Field would never have existed if digital editing existed in the 80s. Edmilson, _deleted_, Will and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Exactly, it's sad to think that they had JW on their side and then throw his work out the window for what? What purpose does the music serve if it can't speak? If they wanted to mess with the music, even before burying it under sounds, why didn't they just track the whole film with older music and not bother with Williams at all? It's just so snotty and a massive warning sign about the role of film music as nothing more than wallpaper that they can fix in post. _deleted_ and Will 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,314 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 The sound effects are obnoxiously loud in that sequence and the editing is a jarring mess as a result. I was straining to hear the music but it's impossible with all the blasters and explosions. Clearly the sound team are just so in love with their own work that Williams gets thrown under the bus whenever his work conflicts with theirs (how I wish we still had Kenny fighting for his music in the mixing room). They don't seem to understand that a constant aural assault of loud sound effects is not interesting, it's just noise. You need to pair it with a musical throughline to give the scene flow and build the tension in the sequence, which allows everything to work together for the film's benefit. It's a shame the TLJ sound crew didn't return for TROS. They understood and revered Williams' music and its importance in the mix. Imagine if The Fathiers was completely drowned out by foot stomping and explosions? _deleted_, MikeH, Edmilson and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurkensalat 340 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 On 12/24/2019 at 7:27 PM, Erik Woods said: My gift to you this holiday season. Here's my Fantasy End Credit suite of The Rise of Skywalker end title. I truly disliked the Finale cue on the album so my goal was to fix it by trying my best to eliminate as much previously established themes and only use new Rise of Skywalker themes and music in the suite. I hope you enjoy! IMO, this is a much more satisfying finale then what Williams gave to us on the album and in the film. Thank you, I just came around to listening to this. A very nice alternative to the existing End Credits. While the latter try to bind the whole Saga together, yours concentrates more on this movie, which is legitimate. I like especially the inclusion of more of the concert version of Anthem of evil and the very ending with its overlapping main themes. To this I have a question: How did you achieve this effect? Where e.g. did you get the Main Theme in the bass tuba at the ends to mix into it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,526 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 18 minutes ago, crumbs said: They don't seem to understand that a constant aural assault of loud sound effects is not interesting, it's just noise. You need to pair it with a musical throughline to give the scene flow and build the tension in the sequence, which allows everything to work together for the film's benefit. The speeder bike chase works brilliantly, I involuntarily do a sigh of relief with Luke every time it ends, and it has no music, just brilliant sound design! Oh wait, there's the key: it's actual sound design, it has personality, it lets the speeders speed by and quiet down a lot, it's not a constant overloud ADD barrage of 25 kinds of noise. crumbs, Arpy and Bryant Burnette 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,314 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 23 minutes ago, Gurkensalat said: To this I have a question: How did you achieve this effect? Where e.g. did you get the Main Theme in the bass tuba at the ends to mix into it? It's the alternate ending to the Jedi Steps and Finale concert suite. Williams wrote both 'quiet' and 'loud' endings. And yes, @Erik Woods alternate credits suite is brilliant and a far more satisfying suite than the patchwork film version. 12 minutes ago, Holko said: Oh wait, there's the key: it's actual sound design, it has personality, it lets the speeders speed by and quiet down a lot, it's not a constant overloud ADD barrage of 25 kinds of noise. Exactly. We can criticise Burtt all we want for what happened on the prequels, but he got sound design. The asteroid chase in AOTC is another excellent example of how sound and music can work in tandem for the best audio storytelling. The speeder chase in TROS is just noise. There's no design. There's no reason Williams' music needed to be buried, or hacked to pieces (except for an indecisive director who doesn't understand the basics of film editing). Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett Boyle 10 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 The unrealistically hopeful side of me hopes that perhaps before the Blu Ray is released they will tweak some things in the edit (after all we know they recognize it was rushed and still needs some fine tuning) and maybe, just maybe Speeder Chase will be restored. I won’t get my hopes up, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,314 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 49 minutes ago, Bennett Boyle said: The unrealistically hopeful side of me hopes that perhaps before the Blu Ray is released they will tweak some things in the edit (after all we know they recognize it was rushed and still needs some fine tuning) and maybe, just maybe Speeder Chase will be restored. I won’t get my hopes up, though Likewise, but yeah, not getting my hopes up. I don't think any film has more obviously needed an extended cut to fix the blatant issues with its theatrical cut. It's Alien 3 levels of perplexing, just without the studio interference to blame. It would be nice if studios took onboard the criticism and allowed filmmakers a 'V2' for home video, but I guess the damage is already done (plus they usually have those things locked the same time as the theatrical release). But it's so obvious that a few editing tweaks could really fix most of the issues people have with the film; surely JJ regrets cutting the film so close to the bone? Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I love how Alien 3's bonus features do explore the background of the mess, earlier concepts, even lightly trash it here and there - in addition to also having the much better Assembly Cut. I expect IX's bonus features to be a mix of Rogue One and Solo's: not touching the director change or any item of controversy, barely any real in-depth background info and only things on the level of prerelease web interviews, little or no deleted scenes. _deleted_ and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,314 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Pretty much. Which is insane, because the making of those films is probably more interesting than the films themselves! There's probably nearly an hour of unused/abandoned footage for both the spinoffs. Will and _deleted_ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MaestroUE 29 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 As a movie, I didn’t like TLJ. It just had many things that didn’t work for me. But I saw that movie three times in a movie theatre, and why? Because that movie treated JW’s music in a very satisfying manner. I remember smiling like a 5 year old that just got a huge ice-cream, when the dreadnought appeared from the hyperspace accompanied by that orgasmic fanfare, loud and satisfying. This was followed by many similar moments throughout the movie. Every one of those three times, I disliked the movie even more but loved the presentation and the quality of the music more too. When TROS began, it was an immediate bad feeling for me, I don’t know if it was just the movie theater I was in, the sound was way too low and shallow. The opening sequence has the brilliant, some of the rare moments of action continuity of the FYC prologue but hey, you’ll be happy if you can even hear it. The sound thing got better by Falcon Flight but the sound effects and the dialogue were much louder so that didn’t give me any satisfaction either. Rey’s training was a great moment, which was musically very satisfying, alongside with Lando’s Arrival and the menacing Knights of Ren material in Kijimi but sadly not on the OST or FYC. The other way around, the cut of brilliant moments displayed in the soundtrack such as the horn motif at the beginning of “Journey to Exegol” and the entire “The Speeder Chase” track, which were non existent in the movie. As many have stated, this movie absolutely butchers JW’s artistic approach to film scoring. It was similar in TFA but there you at least had some kind of continuity in the score. Although I believe I didn’t find TROS worse than TLJ as a movie, I watched it just once and that was enough. Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been listening to all three albums of the sequel trilogy and now I have a better judgement of it. I can still say, as a presented OST album, TLJ gave me a much better listening experience. If TROS had all that unreleased music and wasn’t chopped up into pieces, it could’ve been right up there with TLJ, maybe even better. But I just can’t keep listening to the OST album all together. I did the Jay’s track listing trick of 28 cues (many thanks by the way) which saved it a bit for me, but I don’t find myself keep wanting to listen to the soundtrack, more like a few certain cues and great moments, which is a shame because you can see the inspiration, the powerful drive, the mastery in JW’s writing for TROS and can’t help but thinking what his initial ideas as an entire score soundtrack would’ve sounded like. I thought as a JW fan, J.J. would lean more on the importance and weight of the score, given that this was the final SW score of the legendary composer. I’m just gonna keep hoping for the release of the complete recordings and keep listening to the 28-Track tracklist while doing so Arpy, Tiburon and crumbs 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,314 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 JJ didn't seem to learn anything from what happened (musically) on TFA. In fact, TROS is far worse with its disregard for JW's score, tracking significantly more music from other films than TFA ever did. Remember those simpler times when it was controversial tracking 15 seconds of ANH into TFA? Then consider that 4 previous scores (TFA/TLJ/ROTJ/ROTS) were tracked at various places in TROS, while 3 others were re-recorded wholesale (ANH/ESB/AOTC). You have to wonder how many other directors would have the audacity to treat Williams' score with such contempt, after proclaiming such adoration for him? One thing is abundantly clear though: these scores desperately need the attention of Mike Matessino to present them with the respect they deserve. I dearly hope JW and his team feel as strongly. It's insulting how maligned these scores were treated under Abrams and his sound crew. Will, Tiburon, Edmilson and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 Williams putting together the OST for The Rise of Skywalker after all the edits to the score by JJ and co. Fabulin, Edmilson, Mattris and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJA 19 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 12 hours ago, King Mark said: Right now Revenge of the Sith is about tied with Rise of Skywalker for me I was thinking maybe an earlier scene of Reunion had Force Ghost Yoda and then Force Ghost Luke + Leia and why their themes are there . I really doubt Williams would have scored the Lando+ whoever scene with Luke and Leia I think the Luke+Leia appearance is a case of expanding the purpose of a theme beyond its original conception, kinda like the Force Theme began as Obi-Wan’s theme. Remember that the scene is implying that Jannah is Lando’s daughter. So it has now become a ”emotionally satisfying kinship revelation theme”, rather than representing that merely for L&L. Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Or like I have said Luke and Leia is now the incest theme and scores all instances of incest or possible incest in the star wars universe. 6 hours ago, Bennett Boyle said: The unrealistically hopeful side of me hopes that perhaps before the Blu Ray is released they will tweak some things in the edit (after all we know they recognize it was rushed and still needs some fine tuning) and maybe, just maybe Speeder Chase will be restored. I won’t get my hopes up, though Sorry to say but this is basically an impossibility. greenturnedblue 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 They did change the credits music (for the worse) between theatrical release and blu ray for TFA, but that would be on a different level. Will and MikeH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I don't understand. Mike Mastessino has been convincing Williams it's better to release expanded editions of his scores for a few years now and JJ Abrams hacked up his score in the film yet Williams still chooses to release only a 1 c.d. OST when he could present all the music like he intended it with a longer album, unaltered by edits it's like he learned nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tydirium 1,167 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Just because Williams is open to expanded releases in the future, it doesn't mean he no longer values his traditional 1-disc listening experience he crafts out of his scores. Longer/complete-score albums contain more material, yes, but they don't always flow as well and are not necessarily a great listening experience. He knows this stuff will get expanded releases eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Fucking Avengers 4 had a nearly 2 hour initial soundtrack release. No reason Star Wars can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tydirium 1,167 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 Never said it can't. I said that Williams clearly still values a 1-disc listening experience. And I'm still glad to have one, as well. I love expanded releases, but there are cases where the listening experience of having a ton of individual little cues, isn't as good as the OST presentation which may combine them for a better result. For instance, I'd much rather hear the OST version of "Incident at Isla Nublar"—which ingeniously includes "The Falling Car"—than the 2016 version which does not. Or the OST version of "Anderton's Great Escape", combining "Anderton Escapes" and "On the Conveyor". I'd rather get a great OST presentation that is carefully crafted by Williams for listening purposes, and then eventually also get an expanded/complete release, than only get a release of a bunch of little cues... Simply dumping all the cues into an album—while yes, it's more material—is sort of a thoughtless approach. Taikomochi, crumbs and TheUlyssesian 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 On 1/3/2020 at 11:59 AM, mstrox said: The implication is that JJ had wanted a badass epic version of Duel of the Fates, but voila, the movie ended up having some brand new appropriate Kylo-themed scoring there (magically? without JJ Abrams' knowledge?) That isn't implicated at all. You are the one assuming it was supposed to be Duel of Fates. Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mstrox 6,651 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 I didn’t want or care about Duel of the Fates. I’m inferring based on the social media complaints of the Star Wars Conspiracy Theory Dinguses (Est. 2017) - they post on r/saltierthancrait, and that’s where this dumb new conspiracy theory appeared. Arpy, Taikomochi and Bofur01 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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