Giftheck 916 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 It's obvious they took 'phantom theme' to mean Duel of the Fates when it clearly meant the Emperor's Theme. Manakin Skywalker and Tydirium 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edmilson 7,448 Posted January 4, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2020 2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: Fucking Avengers 4 had a nearly 2 hour initial soundtrack release. No reason Star Wars can't. Different composers, different approaches to their albums. Silvestri knew that Infinity War and Endgame were going to be the biggest movies of his career, so he thought maybe releasing bigger albums would help his name. Also, some younger composers have no problem releasing bigger albums as well. Ludwig Goransson managed to release a 95-minute OST for Black Panther and separate albums for each of his Mandalorian episodes. Benjamin Wallfisch released extremely long albums for both It movies. Williams, on the other hand, always favored one-disc albums of, at most, 77 minutes, whether the movie has a lot of music recorded (like Star Wars) or don't (Saving Private Ryan, Munich, Lincoln, etc...). Tydirium, DrTenma and David Story 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 I think any limitation an amount of information is a relic of a bygone era. Maybe Williams doesn't care enough to care. The fact - is for most people, music is going to exist as a streaming option, either on youtube or spotify or some other service. That is 99% of the public is soon going to consume their music. Discs might not survive. And when music is primarily streaming, there are no limitations or curation that needs to be done. Pass the buck to the listener. Make it easy for yourself. Dump all you have recorded online and let people enjoy what they will. DominicCobb and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,286 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Giftheck said: It's obvious they took 'phantom theme' to mean Duel of the Fates when it clearly meant the Emperor's Theme. Even if Duel of the Fates was in the score I don’t think I ever could have been convinced that that’s what he meant lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Stein 2 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted January 4, 2020 Author Share Posted January 4, 2020 And so it begins That is a fan edit made by combining the OST album with the FYC album. It was made by a JWFan user named @HorizonFX using the editing guide I posted here, using cover art made by JWFan user @heidl that was posted here. And you're not allowed to link to forums that offer copyrighted music for illegal downloading. Please familiarize yourself with the rules of this forum before posting again. https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20175-forum-rules-please-read-before-posting/ Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Jay vs. Jay Chewy and igger6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Stein 2 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylanskie 104 Posted January 4, 2020 Share Posted January 4, 2020 Like a few other people have said already, I wasn't a big fan of TLJ's score when it first came out. The Mickey Mouse-ing moments didn't sit very well with me, and there were no new themes that really stood out to me. But having the isolated score, microedits and all, really helped me appreciate it so much more, and now, it's without a doubt one of my favorites. If there's an isolated score for TROS, I think I'll like it better. And I'm not saying it's bad--it's just that there's a lot missing that I wish was on the album or the FYC. So when Don said that all the themes would return for TROS, did they get cut out of the final version of the film, or was he only talking about the major themes? I don't remember his exact quote, so maybe I'm misrepresenting what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 4 hours ago, mstrox said: I didn’t want or care about Duel of the Fates. I’m inferring based on the social media complaints of the Star Wars Conspiracy Theory Dinguses (Est. 2017) - they post on r/saltierthancrait, and that’s where this dumb new conspiracy theory appeared. Sure. I'm just pointing out that despite the whole thing being basically a conspiracy theory, all that particular comment seemed to indicate was that there was a mismatch between what JJ had original heard for the scene Vs what had ended up in the cut he saw. Interesting if true, but most likely not. Even though people were being silly and wanted Duel of Fates, I don't think there was enough info for that leap to be made. Especially when several other comments were so pandering (ie "They fly now") 6 minutes ago, dylanskie said: Like a few other people have said already, I wasn't a big fan of TLJ's score when it first came out. The Mickey Mouse-ing moments didn't sit very well with me, and there were no new themes that really stood out to me. But having the isolated score, microedits and all, really helped me appreciate it so much more, and now, it's without a doubt one of my favorites. If there's an isolated score for TROS, I think I'll like it better. And I'm not saying it's bad--it's just that there's a lot missing that I wish was on the album or the FYC. Personally, even after the isolated score, I still prefer TFA and TROS to TLJ for score. It's close though. I don't really listen to the Iso that much anymore. I find the Album works enough for me, which is shocking. TROS I certainly feel some gaps. 3 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: I think any limitation an amount of information is a relic of a bygone era. Maybe Williams doesn't care enough to care. The fact - is for most people, music is going to exist as a streaming option, either on youtube or spotify or some other service. That is 99% of the public is soon going to consume their music. Discs might not survive. And when music is primarily streaming, there are no limitations or curation that needs to be done. Pass the buck to the listener. Make it easy for yourself. Dump all you have recorded online and let people enjoy what they will. I agree honestly. I don't understand the limitation excuse when it comes to digital. I do still buy discs for certain scores and for the specialty expansions of course, but there's quite a bit I just buy digitally now. And digital doesn't have the limitation of discs or space on a disc or anything like that. My assumption is that people still pretend their are discs in the digital realm for...idk performance rights purposes, licensing purposes, cost purposes? Honestly I have no idea, I'm just spit balling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorizonFX 1 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Yeah, that's a version of the score i made using Jay's info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylanskie 104 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, TSMefford said: Personally, even after the isolated score, I still prefer TFA and TROS to TLJ for score. It's close though. I don't really listen to the Iso that much anymore. I find the Album works enough for me, which is shocking. TROS I certainly feel some gaps. What about the Rey training cue? For now, a simple combination of the OST and FYC for TROS works just fine for me. There are definitely gaps like you said, but it's also a great album on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,448 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: Jay vs. Jay Dawn of Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 hours ago, dylanskie said: What about the Rey training cue? For now, a simple combination of the OST and FYC for TROS works just fine for me. There are definitely gaps like you said, but it's also a great album on its own. Yeah that's true. I mean there's a couple cues here or there that I listen to, but I hardly play through the whole ISO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,315 Posted January 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2020 Just spitballing here but surely only having 1CD releases for the sequel trilogy makes it more likely Mike will get to expand them properly down the track, rather than if Williams had released concurrent single and double disc editions? Let's face it, they'd still be incomplete even with 2 discs. Williams isn't going to dump the recording sessions on there and call it a day; he'd probably approach it like a double LP, with self-contained "listening experiences" on each CD rather than a single assembly split across multiple discs (like a Matessino expansion). Which means crossfaded cues out of chronology, random microedits, missing film versions/inserts, and probably lots of empty space on both discs. And it's not hard to imagine Disney simply re-issuing these incomplete expansions alongside proper expansions of I-VI, rather than pay yet another round of reuse fees to expand them properly (which means that treasure trove of unreleased/unused music would never see the light of day). Look at the Hobbit trilogy; it was great getting 2 CDs right out of the gate but it left a stack of unreleased music and there's no momentum for complete recordings like there was with LOTR (after those films only had single disc releases). Cerebral Cortex, Tydirium, Holko and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 or there could be no momentum at all, period. Like the Prequels Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edmilson 7,448 Posted January 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2020 2 disc OST for The Rise of Skywalker What people are expecting: Rey's Training, Lando Arrives, Fighting the Guards, Pulling the Shuttle, amazing unused cues that on the movie went replaced by tracked stuff from other movies. What they would actually get: The two source cues by Lin Manuel Miranda and Abrams and a new A Musical Journey DVD, with random scenes from the movies set to selected suites of Williams' themes. Holko, crumbs, _deleted_ and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I love the sentimental string cue when Leia first talks to Leia after the training scene. I think that melody repeats at least once later in the movie. Will and Cerebral Cortex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 30 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said: I love the sentimental string cue when Leia first talks to Leia after the training scene. I think that melody repeats at least once later in the movie. I assume you mean Rey? But yes that one is gorgeous!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,363 Posted January 5, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2020 Unreleased music Immediately after the preparation/takeoff/speech montage ends, we cut to Rey, having made it through the maw, arriving at Exegol and seeing the massive Star Destroyer fleet. She lands on the planet in front of the same building Kylo went to in the prologue. The music playing during all this is the same music that had been used in the prologue (FYC 01 0:56-1:28) as Kylo flew to Exegol, the Anthem of Evil on brass played under fast-paced strings, with Rey's Theme appearing towards the end. Since Rey's theme appears in this piece of music, it seems more likely that it was written for this scene and later tracked into the Prologue, but it also sounds musically similar to all the Kylo on Mustafar music in Journey to Exegol that plays in the film leading into this passage, so it is impossible to tell at this point which iteration is intended and which is tracked. As she exits Luke's X-Wing and approaches the building, about 18 seconds of The Emperor's Theme from The Birth of the Twins from The Revenge of the Sith is tracked in again. A timpani hit transitions from the tracked music into about 18 seconds of action music that seems to be unreleased, covering the Resistance fleet traveling through the maw and then the General Pryde instructing his crew to use Ion Cannons against the approaching vessels. As the Resistance Fleet arrives and Poe remarks at the size of the fleet , about 8 seconds of Falcon Flight (0:20-0:28) is tracked in, repeating the fast-paced Emperor's Theme from that cue for this moment. Now the final battle of the war official begins, with Resistance and First Order ships exchanging fire, and Finn finding the navigation tower he needs to destroy and heading towards it. This 30 second sequence is completely unscored, though it is possible the music heard in the OST track The Battle of The Resistance from 0:00-1:12 was written to cover a longer version of this sequence. Next, Rey is shown walking through the building on Exegol. This 38 second scene is scored by about 12 seconds of music that I believe is tracked but I can't place at the moment (a portion is extremely similar to OST Fanfare and Prologue 0:28-0:32), followed by about 24 seconds tracked in from the OST track Fanfare and Prologue (3:39-4:05) featuring The Emperor's Theme with a brief, unidentified but likely tracked transition into: FYC 16 Battle of the Resistance 1:54 / OST 13 Battle of the Resistance 2:51 The battle rages, with Resistance Ships and First Order ships exchanging more fire, and Luke's Theme plays as some lay cover fire for Finn and Jannah as they make their way towards the navigation tower. General Pryde deactivates the tower, knowing he can lead all the fleet out if they follow his Destroyer instead. Finn, as The Force Theme plays, instantly knows which Destroyer is the right one, and lands on it, leading a ground charge on orbaks as The Force Theme plays again. Note: None of the material heard from 0:00-1:12 of the OST track appears in the film at all, and again could be for either deleted battle footage, or possible something recorded specifically for the album. FYC 17 Approaching the Throne (4:16) / OST 14 Approaching The Throne 4:16 There is actually 3 different versions of this cue: The OST version, the FYC version, and the film version. The OST version and the FYC version are the same in terms of basic musical content and themes used, but there are minor edits throughout each, the opening bass line has been pitched down in the FYC version, and the final choral outburst is punctuated with a final chord on the OST version only. The film version further differs from the FYC version in two different spots! I'll point out each difference as I go through the action. Rey approaches the throne room set to a pulsing bass line followed by passages led by strings, horn, and then strings again, as she looks around and sees the empty throne. This is the first about 45 seconds of the track (either version) As recorded, next would be about 15 seconds of eerie underscore as Rey turns around and observes that the entire room is full of Sith faithful, and they begin chanting and the music hits a crescendo point. This is heard on both the OST (0:45-0:57) and the FYC (0:45-1:03), but is completely dialed out in the final film mix, so that the chanting of the Sith is the only music you hear. Rey hears the Emperor speaking, and turns around to see Palpatine on his crane. Rey's Theme is heard as Palpaltine says "I never wanted you dead, I wanted you here", and he then tells Rey it is her birthright to rule here. An optimistic string line sneaks out from the moody underscore as Rey indicates she has not come to lead the Sith, but to end them. Strings grow with intensity until the Sith Wayfinder motif plays under Palpatine saying "that is what I want: Kill me and my spirit will pass into you" and then music that almost hints at Kylo Ren"s Theme plays as he continues with "as all the Sith live in me, you will be Empress, we will be one" Back outside, the battle continues with Jannah and Finn covering BB-8 as he attempts to open a hatch. He is successful, and Jannah drops a bandoleer of grenades inside. They run to safety and observe the navigation tower. This music is fast-based action, and builds up to a triumphant setting of The Victory Theme, meant to begin right when the navigation tower successfully deactivates and continuing as Poe observes from his ship. However, this setting is only heard in the OST (3:10-3:20) and FYC (3:17-3:27) versions of the cue; In the final film, music from a few moments prior as BB-8 opened the hatch (OST 2:31-2:41 / FYC 2:39-2:49) is tracked back in to replace the Victory Theme statement entirely. The Resistance Theme plays as Finn realizes the Destroyer is resetting its systems and Snap lets Poe know the Falcon has sent no word on any backup. In the throne room, The Emperor proclaims "the time has come!", and a choral passage concludes this lengthy cue as the Sith faithful in the room begin moving. FYC 18 Parents 1:57 There is a brief unscored moment as Rey says she will not kill him and Palpatine says she is weak like her parents, with this cue beginning as as soon as Rey says her parents were strong, saving her from Palpatine, but Palpatine opens the roof of the throne room and lets Rey see how badly The Resistance is losing the battle. A choir passage underlines the tragedy as several Resistance pilots and ground troops are shown perishing. A new variant of Kylo Ren's Theme, which I will call the Ben Solo Theme plays twice, first on strings, then on brass during cutaways to Ben, having apparently made his way to Exegol, approaches the building, runs inside, and jumps down towards the throne room. A brief scene where Finn tells Rose to take off in the landing ship without him so him and Jannah can take the Destroyer down themselves is unscored. FYC 19 Coming Together 1:44 Score returns once Palpatine is lowered to the ground, telling the Sith that Rey will now strike him down and pledge herself as a Sith. Another iteration of the Ben Solo Theme plays as he is shown to be closer to the throne room, and has a blaster that he uses to take out some of Palpatine's guards in his way. The Knights of Ren approach him, and a final iteration of The Knights of Ren theme is heard. The rest of the scene is a lot of quick cuts between both sequences, as Rey ignites her saber and approaches Palpatine, and Ben attempts to fight the Knights with only his blaster and his Force abilities. Eventually, Ben is about to lose, and reaches out through the Force to Rey. The Force Theme underscores their wordless understanding, as Rey lifts her saber as if to strikes Palpatine down as he wants, but instead places it behind her back and the cue ends abruptly as she pulls her hand out to show him that it's gone. Unreleased music Ben reaches behind his back and pulls out the saber, gives the Knights a brief sarcastic bow, and an impressive and climactic action cue now explodes to the forefront, with the film cutting back and forth between Ben fighting and eventually defeating the Knights of Ren, and Rey pulling out Leia's saber and then fighting and eventually defeating the Emperor's guards. The music features glorious heroic renditions of Rey's theme and the Ben Solo Theme intermingled as all this happens, and comes to a close as they stand before The Emperor, Luke and Leia's sabers drawn, but he uses the force to knock their sabers out of their hands and lift them up in the air. No music plays as Palpatine realizes Rey and Ben are a dyad in the Force, unseen for generations, with a brief but intense cue playing as he begins sucking out their life force. Back above the surface, all hope seems lost for the Resistance, and Snap Wexley perishes as Poe looks on unable to help. This is unscored, with the next cue beginning on a morose note as all Poe can hear is the sound of defeat, and as he apologizes for their imminent defeat, Lando arrives with a massive fleet of ships. A new lengthy rendition of Luke's Theme, arranged like it was for the original film's End Credits, but extended with new passages plays as the tide turns and many of the new ships begin taking out Destroyers. Back in the throne room, Rey and Ben are collapsed on the floor unable to get up, and The Emperor's Theme plays as he approaches them. Ben begins moving, and the Ben Solo Theme plays one final time as Palpatine uses the Force to fling him up in the air and into a hole int he ground, seemingly to his death. The Emperor's Theme plays as he proclaims "nothing will stop the return of the Sith" The music cuts out as he begins shooting lightning from his fingertips into the sky, which flies outwards into all nearby Resistance ships and they begin falling form the sky. FYC 20 Seeing Sights 3:17 / OST 15A [0:00-3:02] The Force Is with You 3:02 Rey wakes up and looks upward, seeing Resistance ships continue to fall from the sky as more choir is used. She attempts to connect with the Jedi of the past as she had attempted to do in the beginning of the movie, as Rey's Theme plays on piano. Numerous Jedi begin speaking to her, and soon the music builds with intensity as she is able to finally stand up and draw her lightsaber towards herself. Rey's Theme gets a serious rendition as she faces The Emperor, who begins sending lightning towards her instead of the sky, The Emperor's Theme backed with choir plays for a bit, but after Rey draws the other lightsaber towards herself and cross them in front of her, a triumphant The Force Theme plays as the Emperor's lightning backfires on himself and he perishes. Unreleased (well, tracked) music As he dies, the building begins to crumble. Outside, Jannah and Rey successfully blow up the bridge of the command ship and General Pryde perishes. This is all scored by The Force Theme tracked in from Peace and Purpose from The Last Jedi. FYC 21 Rescue 1:10 / OST 15B [3:02-end] The Force Is with You 0:57 The Victory Theme returns as Poe realizes that because the command ship has been destroyed, the fleet is stuck and cannot escape orbit and travel through the maw. However, Rose reminds Poe that Finn and Jannah are stuck on the command ship, and they are shown in imminent danger as the Destroyer plummets towards the surface. Lando arrives, and The Rebel Fanfare plays as The Falcon flies over and hovers where Finn and Jannah can jump onto it and they all fly away from danger. OST 16A [0:00-0:48] Rey's Death 0:48 Rey looks around, drops both lightsabers as drops to the ground dead, as Finn feels it through the force. Rey's Theme plays as her lifeless body is shown on the ground, relatively near the pit that Palpatine threw Ben into. FYC 22 Farewell 4:27 / OST 16B [0:48-end] Farewell 4:26 Ben's hand appears, and he pulls himself out of the pit and approaches Rey's body as a tragic version of Kylo Ren's Theme plays. He picks up her body and hugs it, then remembers the healing power she had used on him. He puts his hand on her side and attempts to bring her back to life, with Rey's Theme playing as soon as her hand moves to cover his. The music crescendos as she sits up, and quiets as she says "Ben" and smiles. They kiss, and he smiles back, but then falls backwards as a funeral-pyre sounding brass passage plays. This passage is similar to the one written for when he was about to die on Kef Bir just before Rey healed him (heard on the OST but replaced in the film/FYC), but here it continues as as his and then Leias bodies fade away, with only Maz being in attendance for the latter. First Order ships are shown plummeting to the surface set to a brief subdued fanfare, and Rey is shown in Luke's X-Wing joining the fleet. A choir-backed rendition of The Victory Theme now covers more shots of First Order ships plummeting, The Resistance Fleet uniting and flying away, and celebrations on 3 random planets (I think Bespin, the Forest Moon of Endor and... Jakku?) In the film, the end of this cue segues directly into: OST 17 Reunion 4:04 The Resistance reunites and celebrates on Ajan Kloss. Luke's Theme is heard as BB-8 rolls around and reunites with D-0, The Force Theme is heard as Chewie hugs Rose while Finn looks on from a distance, and there is a brief comedic interlude as Poe sees Zorii and and they nod at each other from a distance, but she rejects a wordless request for more. The OST version continues from here with a lovely statement of Poe's Theme (1:02-1:17) that does not appear in the film at all, perhaps indicating in the cut Williams scored to, she did not reject his advances, and they hugged as well, set to his theme. The film also omits the beginning portion (1:17-1:39) of Yoda's Theme, perhaps meant to underscore more cut celebration footage. Resuming what is in the film, Yoda's Theme plays as Beaumont hugs Klaud, Maz gives Chewie the medal Leia was seen holding earlier in the film, Poe reunites with Finn, and 3P0 hears Lukes K-Wing approaching. Rey's Theme plays as she lands and BB-8 greets her. Luke and Leia plays as Jannah sits down next to Lando hits on bonds with her, and then Rey sees Finn and Poe. As the three of them embrace each other, We Go Together gets a sweet string rendition to end the cue as the scene fades out over a wide shot of the entire celebration. FYC 23 A New Home 1:42 / OST 18 A New Home 1:47 Rey arrives on Tatooine without score, with a final new melody beginning as she approaches the Lars Homestead. Rey's Theme plays for the final time to picture as she slides down a hill towards their house, and the new melody continues as she wraps up Luke and Leia's sabers and uses the Force to bury them in the sand. She is shown to have constructed her own, new lightsaber with a yellow blade, and stands up when she sees a woman has arrived nearby and asks her who she is. There is no score as she says her name is Rey, but then is at a loss for words when asked for her family name. OST 19 Finale 10:51 Rey looks into the distance and sees a vision of Luke and Leia smiling at her, and as The Force Theme begins, arranged exactly like it was for the Finale from The Force Awakens, she tells the woman her name is Rey Skywalker, the music swells and she is shown looking into the setting suns of Tatooine with BB-8 to end the film. The End Credits roll, after the traditional opening, contains arrangements of We Go Together (1:20-2:05), Anthem of Evil (2:05-3:25), The Imperial March (3:25-4:51), Rey's Theme (4:51-6:09), The Victory Theme (6:09-7:32), and Luke's Theme and the Rebel Fanfare (7:32-end) In the final film, the Anthem of Evil passage is cut down to 38 seconds, The Imperial March is cut down to just over a minute, and The Victory Theme passage is cut down to just under a minute. CONCERT ARRANGEMENTS: OST 07 Anthem of Evil 3:23 This is an arrangement of the Anthem of Evil theme, giving it more depth that it receives in the final film. OST 03 The Rise of Skywalker 4:18 This piece arranges two different themes together. The Victory Theme opens the track (0:00-0:48), arranged similarly to how it is in the end credits (6:09-6:52). This is followed by a new flute-led transition (0:48-0:53) that leads into an arrangement of We Go Together (0:53-1:43), also arranged similarly to how it is in the end credits (1:20-2:05), but with a new coda. This is followed by a completely original bridge (1:43-2:25) that features both We Go Together (2:03) and The Victory Theme (2:18). Next (2:25-3:32) comes a re-orchestrated version of a passage from Farewell (3:56-4:57), this time without any choir accompaniment, but featuring a similar triumphant version of The Victory Theme. Finally (3:32-end), a noble horn and string arrangement of The Victory Theme ends the track. Cerebral Cortex, KittBash, shad79 and 8 others 8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,315 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 45 minutes ago, Jay said: Rey looks into the distance and sees a vision of Luke and Leia smiling at her, and as The Force Theme begins, arranged exactly like it was for Finale from The Last Jedi Superb work on this write-up Jay, very well done. My only note is that the final cue of TROS is actually the same arrangement as the final cue in The Force Awakens, not The Last Jedi (which reused the arrangement from Revenge of the Sith). Smaug The Iron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaug The Iron 515 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 57 minutes ago, Jay said: and there is a brief comedic interlude and Poe sees Finn and she rejects his advances. I think you mean Poe sees Zorii. And you can here Poe's Theme in that moment. 1 hour ago, Jay said: Leia's Theme plays as Maz gives Chewie the medal Leia was seen holding earlier in the film. I think it is Yoda's Theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 I noticed the music at the beginning of Journey to Exegol has the same motif as On the Waterfront Maybe it's a "braving the elements" sort of theme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 Many thanks for these incredibly detailed analyses, @Jay. They're super useful! The FYC and OST for "Approaching the Throne" both have a statement of the Victory Theme at 3:10 not mentioned in @Jay's analysis, I'm guessing because you're going by the film first. That statement is not in the film as it is instead replaced with a repeat of 2:31-2:46 of the same track. It looks like that Victory theme was going to accompany the destruction of the navigation tower by Finn and Jannah. Maybe they felt it was too soon to have the Victory Theme since the First Order just moved the navigation signal to the command ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,286 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 On 1/4/2020 at 6:17 AM, JJA said: I think the Luke+Leia appearance is a case of expanding the purpose of a theme beyond its original conception, kinda like the Force Theme began as Obi-Wan’s theme. Remember that the scene is implying that Jannah is Lando’s daughter. So it has now become a ”emotionally satisfying kinship revelation theme”, rather than representing that merely for L&L. Fair reasoning. Also I guess with Luke and Leia being important figures in the film, maybe he just wanted a place for it at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 Thanks to you guys and everybody who has provided corrections/updates/additions/etc, it is really really appreciated. I definitely favored getting the posts up as quick as possible, knowing I could fix everything after the fact, instead of tweaking and tweaking until it was all right before posting. I encourage everyone to let me know anything I got wrong or isn't clear or whatever so I can make these all more accurate! I will begin making some of these new corrections right now mortegae and Cerebral Cortex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 8 hours ago, Smaug the iron said: I think it is Yoda's Theme. I second that. It's the same moment when Monaghan hugs Klaud. Makes sense, because it's a theme which originally was meant to show that an unremarkable alien could also be a great hero. Cerebral Cortex and Smeltington 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted January 5, 2020 Author Share Posted January 5, 2020 15 hours ago, crumbs said: My only note is that the final cue of TROS is actually the same arrangement as the final cue in The Force Awakens, not The Last Jedi (which reused the arrangement from Revenge of the Sith). Fixed! 15 hours ago, Smaug the iron said: I think you mean Poe sees Zorii. Fixed Quote And you can here Poe's Theme in that moment. Sadly, Poe's Theme only appears on the OST version, it is completely removed from the film version. The film version jumps from 1:02 right to 1:39, omitting Poe's theme and most of Yoda's theme as well. Maybe instead of rejecting Poe, in the cut Williams scored to Zorii accepts and they hug as well, set to his theme? Or he goes from that comedic scene to doing something else? Quote I think it is Yoda's Theme. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoD 3 Posted January 5, 2020 Share Posted January 5, 2020 On 12/22/2019 at 8:01 PM, Jay said: Here it is, listen and report back! Hey! Sorry for the very late reply. So, yeah, it's absolutely the same beginning But in your clip it's higher (by maybe a semitone or a tone). Funny! But as someone else already commented, it does makes sense indeed thematically (at least the Episode VII part), as this theme was used when Finn talks about his Stormtrooper past, as is the case in the Episode IX scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,363 Posted January 6, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 6, 2020 23 hours ago, Ludwig said: The FYC and OST for "Approaching the Throne" both have a statement of the Victory Theme at 3:10 not mentioned in @Jay's analysis, I'm guessing because you're going by the film first. That statement is not in the film as it is instead replaced with a repeat of 2:31-2:46 of the same track. It looks like that Victory theme was going to accompany the destruction of the navigation tower by Finn and Jannah. Maybe they felt it was too soon to have the Victory Theme since the First Order just moved the navigation signal to the command ship. Thank you so much for this, this is a brilliant observation! I've gone ahead and rewritten the entire entry for Approaching The Throne, notating two different spots that the final film is different from the FYC, I also added back in a setting of Rey's Theme I hadn't pointed out when first posted. And how interesting that JJ was still tinkering so late, that even after the FYC was locked he made changes that invalidate it from being an accurate representation of the music as heard in the film. It makes me wonder if that's why it was taken down and put back up. I wonder if anybody ever checked when it went back up the second time to see if this track was changed then? I've also gone and added entries for the two concert arrangements. I hadn't realized before how much of The Rise of Skywalker track is actually just portions of the end credits and Farewell, slightly altered! At least it has a unique new bridge with both themes in it... Smaug The Iron, Cerebral Cortex, Will and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Jay said: Thank you so much for this, this is a brilliant observation! I've gone ahead and rewritten the entire entry for Approaching The Throne, notating two different spots that the final film is different from the FYC, I also added back in a setting of Rey's Theme I hadn't pointed out when first posted. And how interesting that JJ was still tinkering so late, that even after the FYC was locked he made changes that invalidate it from being an accurate representation of the music as heard in the film. It makes me wonder if that's why it was taken down and put back up. I wonder if anybody ever checked when it went back up the second time to see if this track was changed then? I've also gone and added entries for the two concert arrangements. I hadn't realized before how much of The Rise of Skywalker comes only slightly altered out of the end credits and Farewell! At least it has a unique new bridge with both themes in it... I think it might be minor so won't disqualify him. The academy's rules state that - Quote The music ... must be representative of the score and may not differ from the music actually used in the finished film. https://www.oscars.org/sites/oscars/files/92aa_regulations.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,136 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I am pretty sure part of The Bombing Run from TFA that leads to the Rey theme statement is dialed out in the film, but is on the FYC. No one seemed to care then. Doubt they will now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,315 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Yeah FYCs often include music dialled out in the mix, for whatever reason. I guess it's still "active" on the sound mixer's music channel, just with volume set to zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylanskie 104 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Jay said: And how interesting that JJ was still tinkering so late, that even after the FYC was locked he made changes that invalidate it from being an accurate representation of the music as heard in the film. It makes me wonder if that's why it was taken down and put back up. I wonder if anybody ever checked when it went back up the second time to see if this track was changed then? I'm not 100% sure, but I think @thx99 checked all the re-uploaded tracks and verified that they were the exact same ones that were put up originally. Also, there are two minor edits in Rey's Death and Reunion for the film. In Rey's Death (Farewell), 0:03 - 0:05 is cut out (the third and fourth notes), so it skips from the second note to the fifth note. I don't have a piano in front of me right now so I can't tell you the notes, but if you listen, you'll hear it. And in Reunion, 2:25 - 2:29 is cut out (chimes version of Rey's theme, but a pitch higher than the first statement). Both are really small edits, but they stick out to me when I watch the film. Another thing I noticed is that the statement of Rey's theme in Prologue (FYC) is different than when that section of Prologue (0:56 - 1:28) plays when Rey goes to Exegol. It's hard to hear with all the sound effects (damn it JJ!) but there are much less instruments that play Rey's theme on the FYC track than when it appears later in the film. They also certainly could've been dialed out for the FYC track. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,132 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, dylanskie said: Another thing I noticed is that the statement of Rey's theme in Prologue (FYC) is different than when that section of Prologue (0:56 - 1:28) plays when Rey goes to Exegol. It's hard to hear with all the sound effects (damn it JJ!) but there are much less instruments that play Rey's theme on the FYC track than when it appears later in the film. They also certainly could've been dialed out for the FYC track. Yep, I noticed that too -- same ostinato & key but it's a completely different rendition -- first time is quite atypical (G-Bb-F#-G-C-D), second pretty accustomed (C-Eb-G-C-F-G). [Comparison below] https://drive.google.com/open?id=1q8smqh9EiI3h8lUM9M93RfQTXy0IlniJ Just adds to the weirdness of everything having to do with the original Prologue. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 Yea, I'm really starting to think that the music heard as Kylo flies to Exegol (FYC Prologue 0:56-1:28) is actually an alternate for Rey's arrival at Exegol, that was just tracked into the prologue for Kylo's journey there. It sounds similar enough to the bulk of Journey to Exegol that it seemed like it could have just been a portion of the cue that Williams microedited out of the OST track (which would be funny, because it would mean he edited out the actual journey to Exegol from the track he titled Journey To Exegol), but the more I listen to it and listen to Rey's arrival the more I think it is just tracking. Especially because Kylo arriving there really has no reason to use Rey's theme. Which begs the question, why did he title the track containing music that takes place entirely on Mustafar, Journey to Exegol? And what footage was Williams writing the music in the OST track #1 after the main title to? It doesn't sound like Luke/Leia training music, and the end sounds like music for Kylo talking to the Emperor. Did he simply pull a TPM/AOTC and include music from (originally) later in the film in the first track? The Five Tones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,892 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/4/2020 at 2:30 PM, Giftheck said: It's obvious they took 'phantom theme' to mean Duel of the Fates when it clearly meant the Emperor's Theme. I've been saying that to people on FB/Reddit for months, yet everyone kept saying "no, clearly Don was referring to DotF!". People just love hearing what they want to hear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylanskie 104 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 26 minutes ago, Falstaft (hiatus til TROS) said: Yep, I noticed that too -- same ostinato & key but it's a completely different rendition -- first time is quite atypical (G-Bb-F#-G-C-D), second pretty accustomed (C-Eb-G-C-F-G). [Comparison below] https://drive.google.com/open?id=1q8smqh9EiI3h8lUM9M93RfQTXy0IlniJ Just adds to the weirdness of everything having to do with the original Prologue. Thanks for posting that! Hopefully we'll hear more information about the original opening of the film as more information comes out over the next few weeks. Since the OST track has that section of Palpatine's Seduction and his theme near the end, I think Williams could've possibly been writing for some sort of montage explaining how Palpatine came back. Didn't someone recently say there was originally way more information about how he came back in a previous version of the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,315 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Shit, I hadn't even noticed Rey's Theme buried in that cue! That surely confirms Kylo's journey to Exogol was tracked from Rey's journey later in the film. What a confusing mess this score is, especially when we don't know which parts of these tracks belong to which cuts of the film Williams scored, nor whether Williams recorded several alternates for various cuts (or just JJ wanting a different approach). 33 minutes ago, Jay said: And what footage was Williams writing the music in the OST track #1 after the main title to? It doesn't sound like Luke/Leia training music, and the end sounds like music for Kylo talking to the Emperor. Did he simply pull a TPM/AOTC and include music from (originally) later in the film in the first track? My best guess is this what Williams recorded for the original version of Kylo's first meeting with the Emperor, when it took place later in the film. Months later, Williams was told the sequence got moved to the beginning of the film and he followed suit with his soundtrack assembly (same as Rey Meets BB8 actually being R2 Wakes Up, but Williams named the OST track the way it was used in the film). It seems Williams then re-scored the entire sequence with a more gothic/horror slant (the edit either changed substantially or the whole sequence was reshot) and he simply preferred his original intentions for the OST assembly. 33 minutes ago, Jay said: Which begs the question, why did he title the track containing music that takes place entirely on Mustafar, Journey to Exegol? This sounds like two different cues to me, with the first ending at 0:52 and the transition hidden by timpani hits. The second cue sounds like the music for Kylo Ren's raid on Mustafar, which was originally far longer and included Hux/Pryde as well. The cue at the beginning sounds similar enough to Rey's journey to Exegol that this is probably what he wrote for Kylo Ren's journey there (before JJ tracked over it with the Rey version). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Kylo's quest to uncover the Wayfinder is technically 'The Journey to Exegol', one way of rationalizing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,511 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thx99 1,740 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 7 hours ago, dylanskie said: I'm not 100% sure, but I think @thx99 checked all the re-uploaded tracks and verified that they were the exact same ones that were put up originally. Yep! On 12/18/2019 at 8:07 AM, thx99 said: Disney reinstated the FYC site for Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker and changed the names of the MP3 files, thereby changing the links. The "new" MP3 files are bit-for-bit identical to the original MP3 files, so no need to re-download them. I have added the new links to the initial post above and removed the defunct status of the site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 10 hours ago, Jay said: And what footage was Williams writing the music in the OST track #1 after the main title to? It doesn't sound like Luke/Leia training music, and the end sounds like music for Kylo talking to the Emperor. Did he simply pull a TPM/AOTC and include music from (originally) later in the film in the first track? The mostly accurate leaks on Reddit suggest that the opening scenes were in a different order (e.g. the 'Last Order' fleet appearing *before* Kylo meets Palpatine) with additional footage (with Pryde and Hux, more of Kylo slaughtering natives). I'm curious to know if Williams scored any of the deleted 'Oracle' footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 What's with that soprano voice when Leia ||dies||? Is that Williams or was it a last minute addition by JJ? I've never heard Williams do that sound before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 It's on the FYC so its Williams music and not a sound editor thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 22 minutes ago, Jay said: It's on the FYC so its Williams music and not a sound editor thing It is? Cool! Haven't really heard the FYC in-depth yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,363 Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 It's at the end of Final Saber Duel Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Five Tones 302 Posted January 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 6, 2020 Saw the film over the weekend and it felt like a great weight was lifted, between holding off on spoilers and the intense discussions of the FYC/OST. Loved the film (alright I bawled, especially but not only during key moments in the score). Without getting into a review, I was able to "let go" of most of the weak spots and let it wash over and it was really satisfying... of course, not as much as it could've been. The relative volume of the score was a substantial disappointment. I saw a "standard" presentation and the sound was only moderately loud and read point source-like from the centre of the screen (boo), but the extraordinary subordination of the score in the film's mix itself took away from my enjoyment overall. And the bad mixing didn't hide the many regrettable edits. I need to see it again but I feel like I would rate the score far worse as it was presented onscreen than in listening to Jay's helpful playlist ordering, or even just OST alone. I do wish there was some really solid, Desert Chase or Battle of Yavin or Hoth-level mega cue, but the blissful moments in the final act made up for that somewhat. The tracked cues reached a new low here, although it was a best/worst scenario. I actually liked hearing the clip of Vader's Death in that weird, disorienting, overlapped remix AND it was a cheap shot. (It might've been smarter and more accurate to track the phrase that resembles Kylo's theme in the extended version of the Emperor's theme in The Dark Side Beckons.) And as others have pointed out, Yoda and the Force totally works in context, one of the best parallel references in the whole saga including the scene. I feel somewhat resigned in joining the chorus on this one but yes it would've been nice to have something unique instead of Binary Sunset for the fourth time. I have to presume as others have that JW's best intentions got thwarted by all the reshoots and reediting, and plain disrespect for his work. Maybe he's gotten too attached to his various patterned ways of structuring/organizing scores/programs (which is still way ahead of most composers of any age). Maybe he wanted to throw in some surprises or curve balls that never made whichever cut. Or demands on his time were too high. All that said, it's my favourite of the prequel scores overall, and sits at number four below the OT and slightly above ROTS. The ROS/Victory theme gets right under the skin. Falstaft, Arpy, greenturnedblue and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted January 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 8, 2020 As other members here have already stated in one way or another, one big thing these sequel scores have going for them over the OT and PT entries is the actual development of character themes over an entire trilogy. It's a lot of fun going back and reading through our discussion threads for TLJ and seeing how, while some were expecting and hoping for Williams to pull a Shore and really advance and build upon the themes he had laid out in TFA, many were, understandably, expecting for Williams to do what he usually did with his sequel scores: revisit old themes through brief and limited renditions (perhaps with the occasional surprising variation here and there) but with largely no development, all while the new thematic material took center stage as the older stuff got relegated to the backseat. Which, again, was a logical assumption to make! That was the approach Williams used for The Lost World, that's how he handled things with the Potter sequels, that's largely how he handled character themes in his prior Star Wars films. Outside of the scope of the film that saw that theme being introduced, Williams never really seemed to have the desire to advance old themes for characters when there was new music to develop and focus on. The first time we hear Leia's theme in the OT and the last time we hear it in the OT. It goes out with a super brief rendition. Hardly seems like the last time you will be hearing it in the saga. The first time we hear Han and Leia's theme in the OT, the the last time we hear it in the OT. Nothing really has dramatically changed about it. The first time we hear Vader's theme in the OT, Vader isn't even on-screen and it's introduced uncharacteristically by woodwinds. It's concluded usage in the OT is in a very similar, albeit much softer, way. First time we hear Anakin's theme in the PT, last time we hear it in the PT. It's cold and distant in the end, a noticeable departure from how it was introduced. However, with the theme itself having been only a cameo appearance in the last 2 films of the PT, such a departure can't really be characterized as real tangible development, more of a brief alteration to match the character's new head-space as the theme itself isn't even synonymous with Anakin, only his childlike state. And the list goes on and on. Character themes within Star Wars had largely gotten cool variations here and there but no real conscious development as connected to the characters said themes were attached to. But with the ST, things are remarkably different. Rey's theme is first heard in TFA in a way that very much hearkens to the idea of someone who is just beginning their journey while also expressing the loneliness and perhaps lost nature that someone currently finds themselves in in searching for greater purpose. We last hear the theme in a way very suggestive of the completion of a journey and of someone who has matured through the events they have experienced. The theme concludes, like the character, in a way far different than how it started. Poe's theme goes through a similar metamorphosis also perfectly in line with his character growth, first heard in a way that perfectly embodies Poe's daring and hot shot nature at the start of the ST before last being heard in a way more befitting now of "Poe the leader" than "Poe the pilot." Those final thematic statements mean something this go around and are utilized by Williams as an opportunity to highlight character change. And Kylo Ren's theme, perhaps the best example, is introduced as this. It's huge, it's powerful, it's commanding of attention. This is someone to fear. By the end of the very next film, the theme has changed to match the evolved state of the character. His theme has more structured orchestral backing now, akin to the new First Order army he now has complete control over as Supreme Leader. The denser state of the rendition gives the theme more direction and clarity to its statement, similar to the sureness the character has now acquired throughout the film. By the very last film, it concludes by being used like this, this and this. You could not be more removed from the initial usage. It's now light, hopeful, very much a theme for a character of good. Kylo's theme, as a result, may be the most developed theme in all of Star Wars. This is not to dismiss all the wonderful variations of the Force theme we got across the 9 films, nor to ignore the unique permutations that Luke's theme has undergone. But as far as living up to the true purpose of a character theme, a recurrent musical idea associated with and fully representative of a particular person, Kylo's theme takes the cake. Every significant beat and change in that character feels like it is marked by a concurrent beat or change in his theme. I'm certainly not trying to critique or criticize one approach to theme usage over the other. Rather, I'm just trying to make the point that it seems like Williams went into this trilogy with the very conscious and deliberate choice to try a different approach with how he dealt with character themes (and sequel scores in general). He seems to treat them with a reverence he had normally forgone when doing scores to sequels in the past, reprising them unabashedly in new ways that connect with how the characters themselves are changing. As I started out saying, in trying to compare and contrast these 3 new scores over the other two trilogies, one way that this trilogy does stack up undeniably better (IMO) than the other ones is in character thematic development. Had Williams been able to go into these 3 films with a clear roadmap of where each character was going, he could have potentially capitalized on that approach even further, but I think he did a damn fine job despite that. Sorry for the long-winded post. This is all pretty much stuff that has already been said in one way or another alongside fairly obvious observations that I'm sure most noticed and thought about, but I wanted to verbalize these thoughts nonetheless. Holko, Bayesian, Tiburon and 12 others 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Anakin's and Padmé's themes return briefly in all three prequels, but yeah - perhaps the more character driven study of the Sequels gave Williams more of an incentive to structure the scores accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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