Jump to content
Jay

The Rise of Skywalker - COMPLETE SCORE Discussion - SPOILERS ALLOWED!

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, DominicCobb said:

After all the talk about reprising past themes... I think The Last Jedi actually has more returning themes, no?

 

We'll have to wait for @Falstaft (hiatus til TROS)'s analysis but I can't think of any returning theme in TLJ that isn't also in TROS, except the Death Star motif (ironically).

 

Edit: Oh, maybe Snoke's material as well? Oh, and Rose's Theme doesn't appear in the final cut of TROS despite it featuring in one of those commercials, so JW did reuse some things in the complete score as recorded. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

And obviously Jedi Steps doesn't get reprised again.

 

That didn't play over the wide shot of the island? 

 

9 minutes ago, DominicCobb said:

Yes, also (unless I missed) Han and the Princess.

 

And a few minor TFA motifs (if they count).

 

I guess some might count Tie Fighter Attack as well.

 

I thought HS&TP was in there briefly but I could be confusing it with Leia's Theme. 

 

7 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

We sure about this?

 

I struggle to imagine a trailer house composer taking Rose's Theme and turning it into action mode just for marketing. More likely this underscored something in an early cut of the film. I find it weird that JW would completely abandon the main new theme of the previous film. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, crumbs said:

There's fragments of Rey's Theme scattered all throughout A New Home. It's basically a deconstruction of her theme (listen to the cello at the end, especially).

 

Can anyone confirm the ostinato is of Rey's Theme, because to me it sounded more reminscent of Imperial March, i.e. an allusion to Anakin. It occured to me that the second phrase of Rey's Main theme may have been initially constructed to allude to the concluding notes of Vader's theme.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, crumbs said:

I can't think of any returning theme in TLJ that isn't also in TROS, except the Death Star motif

 

The Death Star motif is in TLJ?  Where?

I have a fan-made edit of the complete score and I never noticed it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

I struggle to imagine a trailer house composer taking Rose's Theme and turning it into action mode just for marketing. More likely this underscored something in an early cut of the film. I find it weird that JW would completely abandon the main new theme of the previous film. 

 

I didn't remember hearing Rose's theme in any of the TV spots... Do you remember which one you're referring to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Will said:

 

I didn't remember hearing Rose's theme in any of the TV spots... Do you remember which one you're referring to?

 

It wasn't a TV spot, it's the music in this commercial (which we've assumed was taken from TROS... but was seemingly absent in the final cut)

 

https://youtu.be/WsAaRwkNgk8

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

24 minutes ago, Falstaft (hiatus til TROS) said:

If we ever get complete session recordings, I'm also confident some major surprises will turn up.

 

Absolutely, no doubt lots of different approaches were tried throughout the trilogy that only a complete release will reveal. There's so much unused or dialled out music, so there could be recurring motifs that were totally abandoned during production (wasn't the unused Hux speech an example of a recurring motif throughout TFA?)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they recorded fragments of Duel of the Fates for part of the TROS climax but went a more emotional route instead (see Han Solo's revised death cue). 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Tom said:

Well, if you are criticizing the way it was edited into (or out of) the movie, then I agree that there is a big problem.  If you are asking why Williams wrote an adventure motif for an adventure scene, then I think the problem is a lack of understanding of how film scoring works. 

 

I get that JW can throw in whatever new themes he likes into appropriate points of the film. For me, the addition of this theme into an otherwise-scattered action cue reflects the larger issues of the score and the film. There's an extra theme here when existing themes aren't used in obvious places they could be, and in the wider film there is a new 'Rise' theme used in plenty of places where existing leitmotif would probably have the greater impact. All in all the score to TROS seems to be an accumulation of existing transposed themes from before, a few new, unnoticable themes that the plot or character development didn't call for (and are not served by), and lots of scattered action music or meandering underscore.

 

This all reflects the film itself: lacking any core identity, solid plot progression or decent character development. It throws in the new without developing it, or giving the required gravitas or development to the old.

 

Personally I think JW was on autopilot for this one. He saw the cut of the film, thought it was a mess, and duly scored it sufficiently from scene-to-scene (because the film feels like a fast sequences of scenes), but could not use his music to lift it above what was written, filmed and edited. That's why we got a couple of concert pieces, and those new themes threaded thinly throughout, with just-enough working of existing themes (most notably Rey's).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, crumbs said:

 

It wasn't a TV spot, it's the music in this commercial (which we've assumed was taken from TROS... but was seemingly absent in the final cut)

 

https://youtu.be/WsAaRwkNgk8

 

 

I must be experiencing total brain fog, but where exactly in this clip is a clear statement of Rose's theme?

 

Rose.png

 

I'm just getting the above, vaguely Star Wars-ian tun -- some light similarities to Rose's theme, but nothing specific.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, crumbs said:

It wasn't a TV spot, it's the music in this commercial

 

TV spot and commercial mean the same thing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Falstaft (hiatus til TROS) said:

 

I must be experiencing total brain fog, but where exactly in this clip is a clear statement of Rose's theme?

 

Rose.png

 

I'm just getting the above, vaguely Star Wars-ian tun -- some light similarities to Rose's theme, but nothing specific.

 

 

 

I'm right there with you; I don't hear it. The similarity that some people seem to be latching onto is a similar rhythm. Imagine the same rhythm as what you posted, but with the pitches of Rose's theme, and you more or less have something recognizable as Rose's theme. But I, like you, don't think that that alone is enough to warrant calling it a clear variant of that theme, as there's no melodic similarity...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Falstaft (hiatus til TROS) said:

 

By my count (last page of my catalogue), there's 22 distinct recurring leitmotifs in TROS, down from the series high of 28 in TLJ.

 

TLJ:

1: Main/Luke

2: Rebel Fanfare

3: Force

4: Leia

5: Death Star (for the Ironing Board fakeout)

6: TIE Fighter Attack

7: Imperial March

8: Han & Leia

9: Yoda

10: Emperor

11: Luke & Leia

12: Battle of the Heroes (debatable, I know, but I'm fairly certain of it)

13: Kylo Ren (Aggressive)

14: Kylo Ren (Hesitant)

15: Kylo Ren (Menacing)

16: Rey (Main)

17: Rey (Gallop)

18: Rey (Chimes)

19: Map

20: Poe
21: Pursuit

22: Snoke

23: Tension

24: March of the Resistance

25: Jedi Steps

26: Luke in Exile

27: Desperation

28: Rose

 

 

TROS:

1: Main/Luke

2: Rebel Fanfare

3: Force

4: Leia

5: Imperial March

6: Han & Leia

7: Yoda

8: Emperor

9: Luke & Leia

10: Kylo Ren (Aggressive)

11: Kylo Ren (Hesitant)

12: Rey (Main)

13: Rey (Gallop)

14: Rey (Chimes)

15. Poe

16. Tension (hard to differentiate from Anthem of Evil in places)

17. March of the Resistance

18. Wayfinder

19. Anthem of Evil

20. Knights of Ren/Kylo Ren (Fulminating)

20. Heroics

21. Rise of Skywalker/Trio (Cantilena)

22. Rise of Skywalker/Farewell (Hymn)

 

Missing from the TROS score as currently hearable are any references to the new motifs introduced in TLJ, or any references to leitmotifs from the Prequel Trilogy. Jedi Steps is *not* directly referenced, nor is Rose's Theme. A New Home sounds to me like a new, non-leitmotivic theme based on aspects of Rey's Theme (esp. the first ending), Jedi Steps, and Imperial March. 

 

Of course, further study might reveal more concealed references to earlier themes, in which case we can all update our listings. If we ever get complete session recordings, I'm also confident some major surprises will turn up.

 

 

 

What is this one?

 

15: Kylo Ren (Menacing)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mrbellamy said:

Maybe the low strings motif.

 

Yup!

 

4 KyloC.png

 

Starts out in TFA as an accessory to the Kylo Ren B/Hesistant theme, but in TLJ is treated more independently, gets a few detached and developed iterations. Didn't hear it at all in TROS...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Falstaft (hiatus til TROS) said:

 

Yup!

 

4 KyloC.png

 

Starts out in TFA as an accessory to the Kylo Ren B/Hesistant theme, but in TLJ is treated more independently, gets a few detached and developed iterations. Didn't hear it at all in TROS...

 

 

Timestamp please? I can't read music.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Timestamp please? I can't read music.

 

Would very much recommend checking out Falstaft's theme catalogue if you haven't already, as it has, in addition to incredibly well-crafted breakdowns of all of the discernible Star Wars themes, timestamps for all of these thematic goody-goodies and motivic succulents (and much more!). This is his timestamp for the leitmotif in question: 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

Would very much recommend checking out Falstaft's theme catalogue if you haven't already, as it has, in addition to incredibly well-crafted breakdowns of all of the discernible Star Wars themes, timestamps for all of these thematic goody-goodys and motivic succulents, and much more! This is his timestamp for the leitmotif in question: 

 

 

 

Thanks much! 

 

Ah yes. I didn't hear this one. I did hear 'Aggressive' and 'Hesitant' ones in the film.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would we possible consider the Kylo Red Hesistant theme (11 on Frank's list) to be Kylo Ren vs Ben Solo? I was thinking about if the development is really Kylo returning to be Ben Solo. Or something like that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, lairdo said:

Would we possible consider the Kylo Red Hesistant theme (11 on Frank's list) to be Kylo Ren vs Ben Solo? I was thinking about if the development is really Kylo returning to be Ben Solo. Or something like that. 

 

I believe something along those lines has been speculated since TFA, yeah.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Only on JWFan do people complain about a Star Wars score having too many new themes.

In what way do these new themes serve the film, or the score in-movie or as a stand-alone listen? Not much, methinks. But it is the film's fault more than the score's...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Falstaft (hiatus til TROS) said:

 

Yup!

 

4 KyloC.png

 

Starts out in TFA as an accessory to the Kylo Ren B/Hesistant theme, but in TLJ is treated more independently, gets a few detached and developed iterations. Didn't hear it at all in TROS...

 

 

 

It's my favorite motif from The Force Awakens, classic Star Wars. I was always hoping it would develop into a kind of First Order theme.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the list (boy, is this score going to be as 'fun' as both TFA and TLJ to pick apart!), I can say that there's tracking in the piece prior to Poe and Leia (Let's call it 'Sith Message') and in Arrival At Exegol. Both are tracked from the Sidious theme from Birth of the Twins in ROTS. The one as Rey arrives on Exegol is pitched down as it is in ROTS when Palpatine's discussing the Jedi betrayal with Anakin. The latter has a timpani leadoff into new material.

 

I think Jay got the rest of the tracking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh right, I was confusing Birth of the Twins with Plans for the Twins and couldn't place the Emperor's theme. You're certain that cue is tracked? I vaguely recall hearing some low male chorus renditions of the theme, I'll be annoyed if they tracked it from ROTS.

 

Also, it was very cruel of JW to leave this cue off the soundtrack, even though I understand why (a mix of Force/Rey/Imperial/Kylo Ren themes, all in remarkably fresh arrangements):

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/26/2019 at 6:14 AM, crumbs said:

Ahh right, I was confusing Birth of the Twins with Plans for the Twins and couldn't place the Emperor's theme. You're certain that cue is tracked? I vaguely recall hearing some low male chorus renditions of the theme, I'll be annoyed if they tracked it from ROTS.

 

I'm as certain as I can be without having the audio channel mix in front of me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I don't think it's the same recording, the Farewell version sounds more "epic". But I'm not certain.

 

I had a quick look and they do appear to be the same. Sadly without the original section somewhere else, it'll just have to stick around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Taikomochi said:

I still have no idea what the Knights of Ren theme/motif is, and I’ve listened to this thing dozens of times now.

 

To Kijimi 0:40

Coming Together 0:22

 

Plus here and here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...