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King Mark

How many times have you listened to the track The Rise of Skywalker?

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Yep, streaming now

 

Nice editing work!

 

I prefer the second option, with the concert arrangement ending after the with-choir statement of the theme.  Sounds good!

 

Nice work!

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This happened:

 

On 12/19/2019 at 11:09 AM, Jay said:

I wonder if it's possible to replace that section with the Farewell version to create an alternate concert arrangement with choir.

 

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I'm doing my part with this, and have now listened to it twice. I mean, it's quite nice an all, but I'm not getting the hype about this cue. It sounds like something from a sickly sweet climax sequence in and episode of Amazing Stories, where we see the all American hero win the day or something like that. It's... disposable?

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10 hours ago, Quintus said:

I'm doing my part with this, and have now listened to it twice. I mean, it's quite nice an all, but I'm not getting the hype about this cue. It sounds like something from a sickly sweet climax sequence in and episode of Amazing Stories, where we see the all American hero win the day or something like that. It's... disposable?

 

What?!! 🙈🙄

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I don't know how someone can say this sounds like Harry Potter when the first 50 seconds especially are like the perfect blend between the sensibilities of the OT and the PT. This is exactly what I imagined the sequel trilogy sounding like when it was announced all those years ago and my imagination was abuzz with the possibilities of a new Star Wars John Williams score.

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Since you are a fan of when Williams does a proper set piece action cue with its own set piece theme, The Speeder Chase seems more up your alley from this album than The Rise of Skywalker track.

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On 12/21/2019 at 10:41 PM, Quintus said:

I'm doing my part with this, and have now listened to it twice. I mean, it's quite nice an all, but I'm not getting the hype about this cue. It sounds like something from a sickly sweet climax sequence in and episode of Amazing Stories, where we see the all American hero win the day or something like that. It's... disposable?

Yeah, I get that. There are times when it crosses into that sickly sweet territory that doesn't do much for me. (BFG was pretty much that all the way through for me.) It's certainly the kind of thing that's well within JW. There's certainly much more interesting material throughout the sequel trilogy.

 

And maybe I'll feel differently about this once I see the film, but…for being the material that sends off the entire series, it's a bit of an emotional wash. It doesn't approach the bittersweet, lump-in-your-throat finales of E.T. or, say, the Journey to the Grey Havens. Or even War Horse, or Attack of the Clones. (That may just be because Abrams didn't give JW much to work with…)

 

Still, I think it's a beautiful addition to the Star Wars canon of soaring string concert suites, alongside Leia's theme, Han Solo and the Princess, and Luke and Leia.

 

By the way, does anyone else hear something that sounds like static or a something crinkly at 3:49?

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5 hours ago, aviazn said:

Yeah, I get that. There are times when it crosses into that sickly sweet territory that doesn't do much for me. (BFG was pretty much that all the way through for me.) It's certainly the kind of thing that's well within JW. There's certainly much more interesting material throughout the sequel trilogy.

 

And maybe I'll feel differently about this once I see the film, but…for being the material that sends off the entire series, it's a bit of an emotional wash. It doesn't approach the bittersweet, lump-in-your-throat finales of E.T. or, say, the Journey to the Grey Havens. Or even War Horse, or Attack of the Clones. (That may just be because Abrams didn't give JW much to work with…)

 

Still, I think it's a beautiful addition to the Star Wars canon of soaring string concert suites, alongside Leia's theme, Han Solo and the Princess, and Luke and Leia.

 

By the way, does anyone else hear something that sounds like static or a something crinkly at 3:49?

Having seen the film, I agree the Rise of Skywalker theme doesn't hit the emotional poignancy of the other music you mention and I really think that is down to the film itself. The scenes that are meant to be big celebrations and goodbyes are very vanilla and surface. I think JW scores those scenes appropriately.

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So are we still calling the theme heard first in this track and most prominently at the end of "Farewell", the "Rise of Skywalker" theme? Or another name for it? Farewell theme?

 

I assume we're still calling the second theme the trio theme.

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8 hours ago, Tydirium said:

So are we still calling the theme heard first in this track and most prominently at the end of "Farewell", the "Rise of Skywalker" theme? Or another name for it? Farewell theme?

 

I assume we're still calling the second theme the trio theme.

 

Personally, I've been calling the first "Hymn" and second "Cantilena" -- using the kinds of musical descriptors Williams himself tends to employ, rather than symbolic labels, since I think the way both themes are used is somewhat vague and semantically interchangeable.

 

But I'm always happy to revise once we begin to get a better grasp of exactly when, where, and why they're employed in the score.

 

 

 

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Even after seeing the film, I'm not 100% sure what either theme is supposed to represent.

 

The theme that appears first does seem to be a general kind of "main theme" for our heroes more or less, but though we've been calling it the Trio Theme (referring to Rey, Poe, Finn), it's worth pointing out that Chewie is just as much a part of the group, and 3P0 and BB8 are there the whole time too, so a better name might be in order.


But the second theme, the one we first called the "Farewell Theme" after the FYC dropped, I don't know if it's supposed to represent anything specifically.  I wonder if JW actually just considers it an evolution, or second half of the same theme as the Trio Theme.  Which could be why he combined them into the concert arrangement.

 

No matter how you slice it thought, the "Rise of Skywalker" title doesn't make any sense, neither as a title of the movie itself, nor the concert arrangement.  I suppose as a title for the movie, it's supposed to represent Rey choosing Skywalker as her new last name in the final 10 seconds of the film, but neither of these themes play when that happens, and that moment isn't something that's actually built towards throughout the film or anything, and even if you think about any scenes that are directly about Rey and how she defines herself, this theme isn't used for those.  The two musical ideas in the Rise of Skywalker concert arrangement are really used for the group of heroes as a whole.

 

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Just wanted to point out they actually appear in reverse of the order you mentioned; @Jay. The flutes at the very beginning of the track are playing the ROS theme, and then the strings at 0:26 start the trio theme.

 

But yes, that's a good point about it being more than a "trio" of characters. Maybe the "fellowship theme"? 😜 Lol.

 

I still think they are two distinct themes. This strikes me as a "The Rebellion Is Reborn"-esque arrangement, in that it just takes the two main new themes of the films and works them into a concert arrangement together. The one we've been calling the trio theme does seem to show up for more intimate moments of the main characters. The ROS theme seems to be more of an epic, sweeping yet almost nostalgic theme for the end of the saga. Ever since I first heard that choir-backed version of it on the FYC, that was the sort of vibe I got from it.

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So I finally opened up my physical copy today, and JJ Abrams' liners only refers to three themes

 

Quote

But to listen to John's new themes - "We Go Together", or the Knights of Ren theme, or "Anthem of Evil" - is to have unnecessary, further proof that this gloriously wonderful gentleman is apparently, impossibly, endlessly capable of writing timeless, unexpected but somehow inevitable music

 

 

I actually kind of like the title "We Go Together" as a theme title.  JJ might have simply called it that because its an OST album track title, but it's worth pointing out that the scene in the film where the theme (the "trio theme") is introduced IS a scene where our heroes band together to go thwart evil; Rey is planning on going alone, and Poe and Finn come over and tell her "We go together".  So I like that name better than the "Trio Theme", since as I pointed out Chewy and 3PO and BB8 are part of the crew too.

 

As for the other half of the theme, or the other them einside the same concert arrangement if you think of it that way, I still have no better name for it than the "Farewell theme" lol

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5 hours ago, Jay said:

So I finally opened up my physical copy today, and JJ Abrams' liners only refers to three themes

 

 

 

I actually kind of like the title "We Go Together" as a theme title.  JJ might have simply called it that because its an OST album track title, but it's worth pointing out that the scene in the film where the theme (the "trio theme") is introduced IS a scene where our heroes band together to go thwart evil; Rey is planning on going alone, and Poe and Finn come over and tell her "We go together".  So I like that name better than the "Trio Theme", since as I pointed out Chewy and 3PO and BB8 are part of the crew too.

 

As for the other half of the theme, or the other them einside the same concert arrangement if you think of it that way, I still have no better name for it than the "Farewell theme" lol

 

I think his list is not exhaustive. And the Knights of Ren is a leitmotif not a full theme.

 

I will present my theory about the 2nd theme. I think it represents the concept of hope.

 

Think back to all the times it plays mainly

Spoiler

 

1. When Poe gives his speech about being hopeful.

 

2. When the command shop is destroyed and Poe is happy again and has hope.

 

3. For the final shot of the winning Resistance ships returning back - again kinda sorta centered around Poe.

 

 

I think of it as representing the concept of hope.

 

Forget the name - we can call whatever the fuck we want. But what does it represent? That is much more interesting. The title of the movie actually does not make sense to me. And the theme has absolutely nothing to do with the title at all.

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1 hour ago, artguy360 said:

For me the two ideas are friendship and victory. A part and B part of The Rise of Skywalker theme, respectively.

 

oh weird. I thought it's the reverse. A = Victory. B = Friendship. Hopefully we have the right melody in mind.

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1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

If we’re talking in what order they first play in the concert piece, A is Victory (culminates in the film with the defeat of the First Order) and B is Friendship (culminates in the film with the group hug)

 

Yep, that's what I meant. But not sure if the other guys have the same meaning. Maybe I'm reading their comments wrong. :blink:

 

I like our profile pics again.

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2 hours ago, p0llux said:

 

oh weird. I thought it's the reverse. A = Victory. B = Friendship. Hopefully we have the right melody in mind.

Yes, that is what I meant. It is a little confusing as the concert piece opens with the Victory theme played softly but the first half of the piece is dedicated to the Friendship theme and the second half is dedicated to the Victory theme.

 

For clarity, the Friendship theme is featured prominently in We Go Together and the Victory theme is featured in Farewell. 

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How many times? Lots! And I don’t think I’m done yet. :)

It’s definitely my favorite track on the album - and possibly of the entire sequel trilogy. For me, it’s a much more fitting farewell to 42 years of Williams’ Star Wars music than the somewhat disappointing Finale.

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The Rise of Skywalker theme has grown on me a lot. Credit to @Loert as his piano rendition really helped me hear TROS themes as part of JW's musical language for relationships and bonds while also having distinctive Star Wars touches. I think it is a very fitting theme(s) with an almost meta-layer of sentimentality and a feeling of farewell.

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Anyone else feel irritation that Williams did not give us two separate pieces for the trio theme and the victory theme?

 

I think with Rose and Luke in Exile - they were both perhaps a bit thin to sustain a 3-4 minute piece by themselves but clearly both the Trio and Victory theme have a lot of meat to them to sustain their concert suites on their own - why then skim out and give us 1 combined?

 

Specially the Trio theme. It is a more complex theme then this suite lets own. Every appearance is slightly different with different phrases etc. after the first common phrase.  So we definitely need a more thorough exploration or that theme properly I think. I think the trio theme would be a great classic theme if it were explored at length in its own piece. 

 

The Victory theme arguably has a good 3 minutes dedicated to it in this piece so we got most of the juice from it but the trio theme is a lemon that is yet to be effectively squeezed.

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On 12/18/2019 at 12:26 AM, King Mark said:

I put it on repeat most of the day .At least 15-20 times by now.

 

I love this, it's kind of a mix  of theme from Jurassic Park with Harry Potter

 

Ooh I like it. It's more simplistic than tracks from the two scores above but sounds a lot like them. Has more of an Anakin's Theme color and instrumentation.

 

On 12/20/2019 at 12:18 PM, p0llux said:

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Hmm. That's certainly a fair point, but I'll have to think more on it.

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3 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Anyone else feel irritation that Williams did not give us two separate pieces for the trio theme and the victory theme?

 

I think with Rose and Luke in Exile - they were both perhaps a bit thin to sustain a 3-4 minute piece by themselves but clearly both the Trio and Victory theme have a lot of meat to them to sustain their concert suites on their own - why then skim out and give us 1 combined?

 

Specially the Trio theme. It is a more complex theme then this suite lets own. Every appearance is slightly different with different phrases etc. after the first common phrase.  So we definitely need a more thorough exploration or that theme properly I think. I think the trio theme would be a great classic theme if it were explored at length in its own piece. 

 

The Victory theme arguably has a good 3 minutes dedicated to it in this piece so we got most of the juice from it but the trio theme is a lemon that is yet to be effectively squeezed.

Usually I am of the mind to extend themes separately, but in this case, the resulting piece is so gorgeous I have no complaints.  It is as if those two themes belong together.  That being said, I would not mind if he extended it in some form or another.  

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it feels more like there extensions of one another

 

it's not the first time Williams combines themes for a concert version .Hedwig's Theme as the main HP theme and the Nimbus 2000. Harry's Wondrous World has the Friendship theme, the family theme and the quiddich theme...

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It's cool to see how you can hear hints of this theme in stylistically similar passages from TFA and TLJ.  The unreleased "friendship cue" from TFA and "The Rebellion is Reborn" (quoted near verbatim in the intro).  

 

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