The Rise Of Skywalker versus Avengers: Endgame SPOILERS

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

My intention for this thread is that we can discuss both films freely. So spoilers are a certainly

 

 

Both are big, actually super big movies which are heavily advertised of being the conclusion of a sprawling saga of stories. (Even though both Star Wars and the MCU will obviously continue)

 

Both are made by film makers who had previously had great critical and box office success in that franchise.

 

Both are made by Disney, and cater to both the general public and a very loyal fanbase. 

 

Both cost an enormous amount of money to produce (Endgame over 350 million. I dunno how much TROS cost, but it looks incredibly expensive)

 

Both aim to tie together various elements, story threads, character arcs etc etc from a large number of films to a satisfying conclusion.

 

Both have scores by experienced composers who worked in the perspective franchise before and use themes and motifs from those previous movies to tie everything together.

 

Which one did it best?

 

 

[Thor 7,463]

Superhero stuff is about as exciting to me as chopped liver (which isn't very exciting). I've seen AVENGERS: END GAME, and I've already forgotten everything about it. But TROS, I liked -- warts and all. There's not even a competition.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,343]

Godzilla: King of the Monsters.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thor, I like both in their own way.

 

Endgame has the advantage of long term planning that TROS clearly lacks.

 

It also has scenes where characters just talk to each other without all sorts of stuff going on at the same time. Its actually a lot more character driven, and manages to service far more characters quite well.

 

It starts slowly, and naturally from the events of the previous film and builds from that rather than shoving in previously undisclosed story elements and retcon or redefine what happened in the previous film.

 

Its a longer film, with far more major characters, but surprisingly has more breathing room.

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

7 minutes ago, Kasey Kockroach said:

Godzilla: King of the Monsters.

 

[Bespin 8,475]

I think with TROS they really close the loop. This way of showing a resurrection using Love and The Force... it suggests that what happened to Ben Solo and Rey, may have happened at the origin between Plagueis and Shmi (well, that's how I understand it)... so that's nice.

 

The end is the beginning... It’s a repeating circle...

 

For me it ends the Skywalker Saga definitely.

[Fabulin 3,510]

Endgame was an entertaining movie to watch at the cinema with a younger brother. And a forgettable one.

 

TROS made me feel happiness, laughter, adventure, awesomeness, and had two close calls to a tear (plus one hit, when Chewbacca lost yet another old friend and just had enough of it, collapsed to his knees, and started wailing) TROS had characters George Lucas and Rian Johnson actually made me care about, which cannot be said about those constantly joking posers from the Avengers movies.

 

TROS wins.

 

As for the "saga-ending" qualities... I consider Marvel too disjointed and overstuffed to be a real saga. It's more like Rick McCallum's wet dream. Endgame feels the most like a real, grounded film in the MCU so far (except maybe for the first Spiderman), but it's still a far cry.

 

And I actually have nothing against TROS reworking the Star Wars saga into a Skywalker-Palpatine saga. The way they commited to the Palpatine shadow presence and "return" worked amazingly well as a standalone adventure, as well as a work within it's trilogy. Whether it works very well within the entire saga, is more mixed, as the prequel connections are scarce, but again, by making it all about Palpatine, prequels become basically mandatory, with a biggest relative gain to The Phantom Menace. An onslaught of prequel-era Jedi voices also helps. These, plus Luke's monologue about Sidious in TLJ, tie it all neatly together. Rey Palpatine makes the Mary Sue narrative redundant, to my rejoice. The character is now semi-coherent. Some fans bitch about how she managed to defeat Sheev where even Yoda failed, but if she is his granddaughter, it makes sense to me. In the words of Mr. Incredible "The only thing that can defeat it is... itself". Ironic. TROS is just a goldmine of implications for the rest of the series, and to me, the best SW film since ROTJ. 

 

Endgame meanwhile is not as good as the film that immediately preceded it---Infinity War.

 

There is a bit of poor execution at times in TROS, but it's more about missed chances with some scenes (Driver holding Ridley playing dead is a bit clumsy, for example, or the line "You are a Palpatine", instead of "You are Rey Palpatine". There is nothing (to me) as cringy as "Assemble", GirlPower, or the painfully written out and then deus-ex-machined back Captain Marvel.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Not even a competition.  Endgame by ten miles.  Rise of Skywalker is complete garbage, which depresses me mightily to say.

[Edmilson 7,384]

There is no competition. 

 

Endgame was one of the best blockbuster movies of 2019, and a satisfactory ending for the Infinity Saga carefully (although not flawlessly) planned.

 

TROS is a piece of shit that it's neither a good movie nor a satisfactory ending for its series, be it the Sequel Trilogy or the whole ~Skywalker Saga~. 

 

In Endgame, the creators were afforded a 2h50 running time to show the characters dealing with the tragic ending of Infinity War, tieing the loose ends and offering some interesting finales for beloved characters we watched them grow for 11 years.

 

On TROS, they decided to be as short as possible to afford as many sessions per day as possible, which could help at the box office, despite having A LOT of plot to put in the movie. It's an embarassment for the franchise, for the characters and the cast.

 

People whine and bitch a lot about the MCU, but TROS felt like a bad MCU movie, with poor placed jokes. Even the climaxes of both movies were so similar to the point of copy (spoilers for TROS are allowed here, right?)

 

On Endgame:

 

Cap is ready to die facing Thanos' huge army by himself, until he hears the voice of an old friend to the radio. Then he turns and sees, out of nowhere, an enourmous army of the universe's greatest super-heroes ready to battle the villains.

 

On TROS:

 

Poe is ready to die facing the First Order's huge army by himself, until he hears the voice of an old friend to the radio. Then he turns and sees, out of nowhere, an enourmous army of the galaxy's greatest fleet ready to battle the villains.

 

On Endgame:

 

Thanos (thinking he won the fight): "I am inevitable!"

Tony Stark (gasping): "And I... am... Iron Man." 

(villain is disintegrated)

 

On TROS:

 

Palpatine (thinking he won the fight): "I am all the Sith!"

Rey (gasping): "And I... am... all the Jedi." 

(villain is disintegrated)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

On Endgame:

 

Thanos (thinking he won the fight): "I am inevitable!"

Tony Stark (gasping): "And I... am... Iron Man." 

(villain is disintegrated)

 

On TROS:

 

Palpatine (thinking he won the fight): "I am all the Sith!"

Rey (gasping): "And I... am... all the Jedi." 

(villain is disintegrated)

 

This had me chuckling in the cinema at a moment the film didnt want me to be chuckling.

 

Endgame lands it's climaxes much better.

Silvestri's music is more effective in those parts of the film too.

[Jay 37,281]

Both films are certainly flawed, but Endgame was considerably more satisfying.  And is full of genuine fun for the entire middle of it.  It's also properly paced and constructed, paying off setups from previous films in the saga.  Most of TROS is setting up and paying off things within the same rushed movie

[Edmilson 7,384]

6 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

Endgame lands it's climaxes much better.

Silvestri's music is more effective in those parts of the film too.

 

Indeed.

 

Portals >>> that short performance of Luke's theme when the fleet appears.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Portals fucking works!

 

 

[crocodile 7,983]

Endgame. That is no competition. It does pretty much everything right. 

 

Karol

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Its not even close. Endgame is far superior in everyway. Especially the score.

[Chen G. 3,943]

I don't particularly care for Endgame.

 

But it was better.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Everything is better than the MCU

[Chen G. 3,943]

Star Wars as a series, warts and all, is better than the MCU. For one things, its more earnst.

 

The Rise of Skywalker is NOT better than Endgame, even for someone like me who considers that a low bar. Deathly Hallows Part 2 is also a better resolution to its series than The Rise of Skywalker is to its own.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I prefer Game of Thrones Season 8.

[Arpy 4,145]

I'll be in the minority and say that as humorous, entertaining and as varied the Superhero films are in the MCU, they're quite hollow and cheap. I think Endgame is an entertaining film btw, certainly not bad.

 

By virtue of me liking the ST films over a solid majority of the MCU films I think TRoS is a better ending, for one,  I cared for those characters where I couldn't in the MCU phases, and I think it's a better produced film with spectacular visuals. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Endgame is miles better and I don't even like Endgame.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Its better made.

[Chen G. 3,943]

The people behind Endgame had the confidence to let the film play out over three hours, and to structure it in a very unusual way.

 

The Rise of Skywalker feels like the editor butchered it to keep the runtime terse. To me, it didn’t even feel like the sidelined arose in the writing so much as they ended up cutting her role down in the edit to save time.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Nah the “General Leia needs me here so I can’t go with the main cast of this movie on the main quest of this movie” was purely “yeah. People didn’t like Rose so we’re Jar Jaring her here. 

[Chen G. 3,943]

Sure, but it does feel like they intended for her to play a larger role in the final battle, especially as it relates to Finn; but they cut a lot of it out.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

They needed the screentime for Finn's third platonic lady friend.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Is Finn the first character to get friend-zoned thrice?

 

Ep 7 - Rey

Ep 8 - Rose

Ep 9 - Jannah

 

And John Williams never deemed him worthy of getting his own theme!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I thought he had that music that sounded like Masters of the Universe. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

And John Williams never deemed him worthy of getting his own theme!

 

Doesn't Finn have a theme in TFA? Or was it misindentified?

[Chen G. 3,943]

It was some kind of action ostinato.

[Arpy 4,145]

40 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Doesn't Finn have a theme in TFA? Or was it misindentified?

Yes, the Follow Me If You Can motif, but it's more accurate to ascribe it to the Falcon as it scores the scenes with it. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

If it were a Finn theme it would have carried over to the other films.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

4 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

If it were a Finn theme it would have carried over to the other films.

 

The Droid theme from TESB wasn't carried over.

Nor was the Imperial Theme from SW

[crocodile 7,983]

Or Rose theme from TLJ.

 

Karol

[Chen G. 3,943]

Or the Imperial motif.

 

The list goes on.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

59 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Nor was the Imperial Theme from SW

 

39 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Or the Imperial motif.

 

The list goes on.

 

Ummmm

[Edmilson 7,384]

Didn't Jar Jar also had a theme on TPM, which of course didn't appear on the other two prequels?

[Chen G. 3,943]

Well, the character himself (clearly originally intended to be the Chewie of this trilogy's "gang") was all but removed from the other two films. I doubt Williams will have seen his brief appearances as worthy of reprising his theme for. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

6 hours ago, Stefancos said:

 

The Droid theme from TESB wasn't carried over.

Nor was the Imperial Theme from SW

 

Rey, Kylo and Poe's themes were carried over - the constitute 3 of the 4 main new characters. So if Finn had one, it would have carried over.

 

OR

 

John Williams is racist.

[Edmilson 7,384]

More like he doesn't care about the funny wisecracking friend of the main hero on most franchises. Ron Weasley and Han Solo (on the original trilogy) didn't get their own themes either.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

RoS stole from Endgame, Independence Day, and Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Even TLJ stole from ID4!