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Star Wars VS Lord of the Rings [POLL] Film and Score


Star Wars VS Lord of the Rings [POLL] Film and Score  

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  1. 1. Which film trilogies do you prefer? (Select 1-6)

    • Star Wars Episodes IV, V, VI (Directed by Lucas, Kirshner & Marquand)
    • The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Directed by Peter Jackson)
    • Star Wars Episodes I, II, III (Directed by George Lucas)
    • The Hobbit Trilogy (Directed by Peter Jackson)
    • Star Wars Episodes VII, VIII, IX (Directed by J.J. Abrams & Johnson)
    • Star Wars the Anthologies and Others (Directed by Edwards, Howard, etc.)
  2. 2. Which scores do you prefer? (Select 1-6)

    • Star Wars Episodes IV, V, VI (Composed by John Williams)
    • The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (Composed by Howard Shore)
    • Star Wars Episodes I, II, III (Composed by John Williams)
    • The Hobbit Trilogy (Composed by Howard Shore)
    • Star Wars Episodes VII, VIII, IX (Composed by John Williams)
    • Star Wars the Anthologies and Others (Composed by Giacchino, Williams, Powell, etc.)


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Merry Christmas Townies. Yes you guessed it. We're at this low point, the minute someone decided to go there, and I can't think of a better way to waste several hours. In the mystical tradition of the original Santa Ape from JWFan and his toy crafters with crinkled hands who brought us top-content threads such as Batman vs Titanic, Jaws vs Alien, ESB vs Alien, and Silence of the Lambs vs Se7en, we have designed for you the ultimate extravagant battleground for the ages! Come, gather and vote (multiple choices) for your favorite trilogies and scores among the great Lucas vs Jackson debates. :lurk: May you also have a safe and marginally-civilized holiday too.

 

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Amazingly, I find myself voting LotR on both.  And that doesn't diminish how much I love the (first) Star Wars trilogy or its music; that's just how great Jackson/Shore's accomplishments are.

 

Now, if you expand this conversation to include all nine Star Warses and all six Middle Earths, it becomes a somewhat different story.  I'd probably then lean Star Wars on movies, and would definitely lean Star Wars on music.  Those scores for The Hobbitses are very good, but that's as far as I'd go with them.

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Regarding the scores, someone made a comment I tend to agree with when applied to Star Wars (and probably the Harry Potter mentioned,) so instead of typing my own content, I can steal someone else's:

 

On LOTR vs Harry Potter OSTs:

On 7/25/2017 at 4:45 AM, Loert said:

Ultimately, each score has something to offer that the other does not. I think it's pretty much certain that LOTR is the more profound work, not least because of how extensively Shore integrated all the characters and places in the story into the score, and the numerous subtleties in the thematic presentations and transformations. But it doesn't have the colourful orchestrations of the Harry Potter scores, or the variety in style, to give two examples. So a lot of it falls down to what's important to the listener. For example, I don't fall head over heels for "subtlety" in music. I can appreciate it when a composer begins "Happy Motif #2" in the flute only to cleverly interject "Evil Motif #5" in the oboe at the midway point, or when they change one note in the leitmotif to suggest another motif... But what's most important to me is whether the music sounds "good" to my ears. And by "good", I think most of all of harmonic control, melodic lucidity, and clarity of counterpoint and instrumentation (how I perceive it). Not the manipulation of motifs per se. Having listened through the LOTR scores a couple of times, there are moments in there that I absolutely adore, but in general it's not a soundscape that I find that appealing. The fact that one can discover 200 different leitmotifs in there means little to me, if I don't buy the sound of the music in the first place. I much prefer the glimmering, glistening soundscape of Harry Potter. And by the way, Wagner, whose usage of leitmotifs inspired Shore's writing (and many other film composers'...) is one of my favourite classical composers not merely because he used leitmotifs in such an advanced way, but because I absolutely dig his music, note for note. :)

 

On 7/25/2017 at 10:04 AM, Score said:

I couldn't agree more. The Potter scores display a "magic" command of harmony and orchestration from JW. Think of the Prologue from HP1. Those chords playing when Dumbledore switches off all the lights are worth of Debussy or Stravinsky in their top form, and I have always wondered how the hell could he even conceive those sounds. The cue playing when the students reach Hogwarts is masterful in the preparation and resolution of the climax. The ending of the "Mirror Scene" cue that plays when Harry confronts Voldemort is literally terrifying and extremely elaborated, it strangely reminds me of the coda from the first Ballade by Chopin, but this is much more scary (sadly the film mix does not allow to appreciate all the details, which are evident from the recording alone). "Leaving Hogwarts" makes you feel sorry for Harry even if you don't care at all about the story. 

 

Not to mention the greatness of Azkaban (all the dementor stuff, all the middle-age-sounding stuff, a great Quidditch piece, the time-travelling cues...). Not to mention the beautiful cues that he wrote for Chamber of Secrets (even the suite alone is great - but he actually wrote much more than that, right? ;) ). 

 

I mean, the LOTR scores are great and they were surely an amazing feat, but from the point of view of harmony and orchestration they are relatively simple. This is not a defect in itself. But I also look for more originality in these matters, and that's why I prefer the Potters. The symphony from LOTR is more than enough for me compared to the scores, while I definitely cannot say this with respect to the HP suites vs. the complete scores, where almost every cue is essential.

 

So I would apply this to Star Wars. Even though it was more of an "opera"-tunity for Williams to have the freedom to overturize grander themes and more fluid orchestrations, I simply don't think Shore could've ever reached anywhat this talent standard.

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Try not to make this into another LotR circle jerk thread, Chen.

 

Movie wise it's LotR, by a mile for me. As far as the scores go, LotR has the edge, but that's not a slight whatsoever on Williams' incredible Star Wars opus.

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I have a chart for Star Wars, too: its not as pretty. I also did one for Harry Potter; and for the MCU, although that's more of an anthology, anyway.

 

The Middle Earth films are by far the most thought-out of the bunch in terms of the overriding storytelling.

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I'm comparing six to nine. I also did a chart of the Star Wars classic trilogy, on its own: its still very haphazard in terms of the overriding story.

 

Plus, The Middle Earth films don't have head-scratchers like "Leia's my sister!" or "your parents were nobodies because they chose to be".

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22 minutes ago, Borodin said:

Regarding the scores, someone made a comment I tend to agree with when applied to Star Wars (and probably the Harry Potter mentioned,) so instead of typing my own content, I can steal someone else's:

 

On LOTR vs Harry Potter OSTs:

 

 

So I would apply this to Star Wars. Even though it was more of an "opera"-tunity for Williams to have the freedom to overturize grander themes and more fluid orchestrations, I simply don't think Shore could've ever reached anywhat this talent standard.

 

I still agree with what Loert and I wrote a few years ago, and I think it is applicable to Star Wars as much as to Harry Potter. John Williams' compositional style is much more interesting to me when I listen to the music for itself, separated from the movies. The results resonate better with me, both emotionally and technically. And one could list plenty of SW cues that are more focused on emotions rather than on orchestral bravado, sometimes to the point of being spoiled when combined with the movie scenes (I'm thinking of the final reel of ROTS, for example).

 

But I would not like to sound as if I were diminishing Shore's achievement with the LOTR scores, which is among the greatest things ever done in film music. I just think that JW's achievement was greater. In most cases, I would say that the marriage of Shore's scores to the LOTR movies works better, in great part due to the fact that the story told in those movies is much better than the one told in SW. JW's music works better without the movie, but I don't feel the same about LOTR.    

 

 

 

 

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Yeah, the second half of Revenge of the Sith is really set in a Lord of the Rings' mould, not just in the ample use of choir but also in the sentimentality of a lot of the writing; and of course there's more such writing sprinkled throughout the various entries, but its just not quite enough to measure up.

 

I can listen to the Middle Earth scores divorced from the films all day long. In fact, I haven't done it in quite some time, and probably should.

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I only like the original Star Wars movies from the 70s and 80s.  All the followups are garbage (though have great casts and plenty of cool moments)

 

I love the original LOTR trilogy.  The Hobbit trilogy is heavily flawed and not really re-watchable

 

I love all 15 scores, they are brilliant, all of them

 

The SW spinoff films and scores don't belong in this conversation.  But since you did, I don't like either film, and don't like Giacchino's score, but like Powell's

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For me, it's not a fair comparison. Fellowship of the Ring is my favorite movie of all time, and I love the LOTR trilogy on the whole.

 

That said, I really like the Star Wars Original Trilogy, for me all three movies (yes, ROTJ included) are great.

 

On the other hand, I think the Disney Trilogy the The Hobbit Trilogy are just about the same, with one movie on each that I like (AUJ and TLJ) and other two that I don't.

 

The prequels are on a whole different level. They're bad, but I don't hate hate them, on the contrary, they're just funny internet memes.

 

I don't care about Solo or Rogue One.

 

As for the scores, I prefer Shore's LOTR over Williams' SW, but again, not a fair comparison. That said, both Williams' 9 scores and Shore's 6 Middle Earth score are tremendous.

 

Now, the real question is: what you prefer, the 80s Ewoks movies or the 70s LOTR animated movie? And what score do you like the best, Leonard Roseman's LOTR or Peter Bernstein's music for the Ewoks "saga"?

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  • 3 months later...

For a while I was thinking the LoTR (films) were my favorite of the bunch... but now I'm totally changing my mind. I had overlooked how visionary of a feat the original SWs were, their overall direction has this kind of 'film perfection' that LoTR lacks, this kind of 'purity' that's so hard to achieve with casting, screenplay, and artistic vision. Within the form of this particular genre, everything is so thoroughly and faultlessly constructed.

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For me it'll have to be LOTR for both film and score. Both film trilogies are flawed, but ROTJ, fine though it is, has just a touch more flaws than any LOTR film. On the score front, LOTR only just beats the SW trilogy.

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17 hours ago, Borodin said:

how visionary of a feat the original SWs were, their overall direction has this kind of 'film perfection' that LoTR lacks

 

Really, what's so impressive about how the original Star Wars is directed? Are the performances something to speak of? Any memorable camera moves? prolonged sequences of buildup in the editing? For a movie shot by Gilbert Taylor, it doesn't really look that great: its all very high-key lighting, a touch of soft focus and very simple, matter-of-fact camerawork. None of this is bad, mind you: but "perfection" is overhyping it to the extreme.

 

Its a movie that hinges upon its story, the realization of its setting, its characters, and the score - not in directorial prowess. The same is true of Return of the Jedi.

 

Its part of why The Empire Strikes Back is the superior film: look at the way Kershner milks the reveal of Vader's ship, how he chooses to put the camera right in front of the chasing Star Destroyers. Look at the way he uses light, or the way he punches-in close to the characters in the opportune moment; not to mention how much better the same actors are performing under his baton than under Lucas'. Now THAT'S great directing. Ditto JJ Abrams in The Force Awakens (those long-takes!), Rian Johnson in The Last Jedi and, certainly, Sir Peter Jackson in the Middle Earth films.

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  • 2 weeks later...

IMDb's 'Elite Group' put the two best Star Wars at an 8.5 and the two best Lord of the Rings at an 8.2. I personally prefer Star Wars nowadays while I used to prefer LoTR. I'd agree with them that A New Hope is probably a intsy bit better than ESB. It has a lot of vision and magic to it. They also said Fellowship is the best LoTR, hmm. Their ratings can be found when you click below a film's rating on the site, then below shows Top 1000 Voters.

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Well yeah, I guess when you write enough movie reviews and have rated tons of movies, like a billion or whatever, you can be part of this 1000. At least it has fair entry: it's open to anyone who has time to waste.

 

Nobody really looks at this group's opinions, so there's no incentive to want to be in this group.

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I don't think they declare themselves anything. They just waste a lot of time on this hobby.  The real problem is I don't know how full proof their application process is.  Someone could make multiple accounts and their lists would only have to be slightly different. Better sticking more to 'BBC's critics from around the world' surveys.

 

Happy May 4th by the way. 

 

What is The LoTR holiday so I can make sure to bump this thread next time?

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I think The Lord of the Rings holiday is Bilbo's Birthday on September 22, no?

 

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

They're right on this though. 

 

No, they're not.

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Since I mentioned those Top 1000 guys, I decided I'd reverse-superimpose their Top 250 onto the IMDb Top 250, hence, yielding the films they feel are the most underrated.

 

Not sure why I did this, or why I'm posting this here, but I need somewhere to vent. The world is a strange place.

 

1. Jaws (1975) Extremely | Their score: 8.5
2. The Birds (1963) Exceptionally | Their score: 8.2
3. Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) Exceptionally | Their score: 8.9
4. Rear Window (1954) Exceptionally | Their score: 8.9
5. North by Northwest (1959) Exceptionally | Their score: 8.8
6. The Maltese Falcon (1941) Very | Their score: 8.4
7. Psycho (1960) Very | Their score: 8.9
8. Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937) Very | Their score: 8.0
9. Strangers on a Train (1951) Very | Their score: 8.4
10. Alien (1979) Very | Their score: 8.8
11. King Kong (1933) Notably | Their score: 8.2
12. High Noon (1952) Notably | Their score: 8.2
13. The Terminator (1984) Notably | Their score: 8.3
14. Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977) Notably | Their score: 7.9
15. The Wizard of Oz (1939) Notably | Their score: 8.3
16. Shadow of a Doubt (1943) Notably | Their score: 8.1

17. The Searchers (1956) Notably | Their score: 8.2
18. Deliverance (1972) Notably | Their score: 8.0
19. Invasion of the Body Snatchers (1956) Notably | Their score: 8.0
20. The Third Man (1949) Notably | Their score: 8.4

21. Casablanca (1942) Notably | Their score: 8.8
22. Die Hard (1988) Notably | Their score: 8.5
23. The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951) Notably | Their score: 8.0
24. Dirty Harry (1971) Notably | Their score: 8.0
25. Blade Runner (1982) Notably | Their score: 8.4

 

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