SyncMan 313 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 The LLL CD set gave us two slightly different versions of the main title cue from ST:TMP. The only difference is in the pick-up measure (or ‘anacrusis’ measure)--the incomplete measure just before the first full measure in a score. The first sound from this cue that we hear in the pick-up measure is from one instrument-the percussion. In the film version of the main tile, conducted by Lionel Newman, the percussion in the pick-up measure was a snare drum. In the album version, conducted by Goldsmith, the percussion was a timpani. My first Goldsmtih album was ST:TMP and I was listening to it years before I would see the film for the first time via ABC-TV’s network television premiere airing. I prefer the film version of the main title because the booming-ness of the snare drum gets your attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy 4,000 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 Same. The album version is a bit muddier, less crisp and military. I LOVE all the raw takes on the LLL CD. So fun to hear it evolve. James Horner likes the album version better, and decided to start Battle Beyond the Stars identically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 331 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 I've ALWAYS wanted the film version for the Main Titles. It's easily my favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,382 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 I will never understand why Goldsmith chose the muddy and awkwardly played album version for the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 I like it. It's gentler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,382 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 8 hours ago, Þekþiþm said: I like it. It's gentler. It's not more gently played, if that's what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 331 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 10 hours ago, Brundlefly said: I will never understand why Goldsmith chose the muddy and awkwardly played album version for the OST. Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 They're both great, but I prefer Star Trek V's opening. Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 Always refreshing to think of Trek in times when we are being bombarded with Wars. :D I helped myself to a LD rip of the TPM “Special Longer Version”. Really looking forward to watching it! I listen to the LLL set so much, but it has been years since I’ve seen the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyncMan 313 Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 The 'Director Cut' from the DVD (the only version available on DVD) uses the album version. Bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 The OST is all you need. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored 296 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Film version definitely. Just love the forceful, military sound of the snares, and of course the remastered audio in the La La Land release doesn't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Yay, old threads. I like both...I guess I might have a slight preference for the film version as far as the percussion goes. Performance-wise, I prefer the album take overall. But the percussion question is like asking whether the Star Wars main title sounds better with or without the snare drum...I don't find the timpani-only recordings to be lacking anything, but the addition of the snare after the first film adds something cool too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 6 hours ago, superultramegaa said: Just love the forceful, military sound of the snares Which exactly describes why it's a doubtful opening choice for Roddenberry's gentle vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored 296 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 8 hours ago, publicist said: Which exactly describes why it's a doubtful opening choice for Roddenberry's gentle vision. That doesn't have to apply to every aspect though. Star Trek TNG Season 1 was "part of Roddenberry's gentle vision", and guess what? It sucked. Not to mention that the military sound is just that, a sound. In fact it's perfect as a theme for Star Trek / the federation. Fun, mostly light-hearted, strong adventure theme with a hint of military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 TNG Season 1 was the best season. Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,384 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Makes no difference to me (which alas wasn't a poll option). I've never been into this 'different versions' thing. I have the Sony release, which is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,397 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 The film version is just an obviously better performance and the snares have a lot more impact. So that. 26 minutes ago, Thor said: Makes no difference to me (which alas wasn't a poll option). I've never been into this 'different versions' thing. I'm going to regret this, but... Why even enter such a thread to look at such a poll and why want your opinion to be heard so badly when your opinion... is that you don't have an opinion? Bilbo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,384 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Because I wanted to. Sometimes, indifference is a statement too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 38 minutes ago, Thor said: Because I wanted to. Sometimes, indifference is a statement too. Yeah but it’s got to the stage where we all is you’re going to be indifferent about anything that isn’t the OST and what’s on the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,467 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I listened to both and I liked the album version more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Holko said: The film version is just an obviously better performance and the snares have a lot more impact. So that. I'm going to regret this, but... Why even enter such a thread to look at such a poll and why want your opinion to be heard so badly when your opinion... is that you don't have an opinion? Because it's @Thor. I mean, sure, we all know exactly what his opinions are on any recording that doesn't make it onto an OST...but imagine if someone new stumbled across the forum and didn't know that film composers are wasting their time with those recordings! (Here's my usual disclaimer that I think album sequencing does matter and there actually is a lot of value in creating an abridged program. But I arrived at that conclusion in spite of Thor's extremism, not because of it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,221 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 Can't believe I didn't know about this difference before, which is weird as I read the liner notes and ST:TMP is easily one of my favourite scores. But definitely, prefer the snare version. Although I have to say that the STV:TFF onwards version with the Courage fanfare is probably my favourite. I still wish I could get to the bottom of the slight orchestration changes between the TMP version of the theme and the STV version onwards. It may just be the ways it's performed but the version from TMP is definitely slightly different from those used in the later movies. I will reiterate my minority view that TMP would have been better starting with the V'Ger music to give the opening a more mysterious tone... the credits could have appeared over a star field as the V'Ger cloud appeared into view, segueing into the Klingon Battle as the Klingon ships appeared after the credits had finished. Jay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SteveMc 2,674 Posted March 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Thor said: Because I wanted to. Sometimes, indifference is a statement too. In general, I think your position has film music backwards. Film music as an art is not like popular/rock music, where artists' long efforts in the studio are all focused towards the goal of creating a finite album. In film music, the album is secondary. The primary goal of the art is to create a score, and the primary structural driver there is the the chronological drama of the picture. Alternates are a bonus, and the OST is an often satisfactory representation of the full work of art, but the complete and chronological score is the essential thing if you are treating film music as a form of classical writing or as a dramatic music medium. Jay, Bilbo and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,053 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 The film version for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,505 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 These: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,384 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I'm not sure why some of you are bringing the ol' 'complete & chronological' discussion into this. What has that got to do with the price of tea in China? This was about different versions of themes, something that's never really been a point of interest for me - whether it's album vs. film versions (like in this case), or various rerecorded album versions. Hearing a different version can sometimes hold academic interest, I'll give you that, but if there's one I like, I'll stick with that. It's usually whatever is put on the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,445 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Thor said: What has that got to do with the price of tea in China? I wouldn't know, but, where I live, it's about £2.50 for a box of 80 PG Tips teabags . Thor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 I didn't know you've moved to China. 14 hours ago, publicist said: Which exactly describes why it's a doubtful opening choice for Roddenberry's gentle vision. I'm sure Morricone hated that version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 What the hell is Steve responding to? Is that all Thor is to you people? The "OST album" guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Not to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 20 minutes ago, The Big Man said: What the hell is Steve responding to? I responded to a Thor opinion from a different thread here because I conflated all things together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 1 minute ago, SteveMc said: I responded to a Thor opinion from a different thread here because I conflated all things together. See? See?! This is what I mean. Everyone here thinks he's the OST guy, and everything he says is informed by that ideology, no matter how tenuous or remote! Gruesome Son of a Bitch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyncMan 313 Posted February 18, 2022 Author Share Posted February 18, 2022 A tidbit from Mike M. regarding the selecting of a take from 'Main Title' for the 2001 'Director's Edition': Quote Jerry asked if we would use the album take of the main title, not Bob. I think it's because he conducted it as opposed to the '79 film version, which was conducted by Lionel. https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=146921&forumID=1&archive=0&pageID=3&r=331#bottom When asked what take would be used in the 2022 'Director's Edition'... Quote I'm not programmed to respond in that area. You'll hear when the movie starts! In the meantime, maybe start a wager? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameron007 43 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 For the opening percussion, the film version takes the cake. But the rest? I have to say the album version. There's a certain oomph in that performance that the film version lacks. ThePenitentMan1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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