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Pellaeon

TLJ & TRoS, which do you like

The Last Jedi and The Rise of Skywalker  

51 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you land on these movies

    • I like TRoS appreciably more than TLJ
    • I like TLJ appreciably more than TRoS
    • I think they’re both wizard
    • I think they’re both dismal


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TLJ was not perfect.

But some clear creative thought went into it and it promised a route to potentially interesting new(!) developments.

 

TROS was not perfect.

The creativity seemed to be limited to "paint by numbers".

It didn't lead much of anywhere interesting; let alone new.

 

TLJ wins for me.

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TLJ (watched ca. 4 times on the TV / Web): 

+ ideas

+ performances

+ music presence

+ visual arts

+ quotes and memes

TROS (watched 3 times at the cinema):

+ story

+ action

+ music moments

+ emotional moments

 

I like both, despite their cringy moments, so the wizard option please.

31 minutes ago, Ollie said:

TROS is fine until the 3rd act.

ezgif.com-resize.gif

Well put.

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19 minutes ago, Kasey Kockroach said:

HTTYD3 is better than either one, both film and music-wise. Powell has a better sense of musical storytelling than Williams ever did even in his prime.

Bait! Bait bait bait! This is KK saying, “please oh please take the bait!” But we’ll resist, won’t we, fellas?

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15 minutes ago, Jay said:

I find all the Disney Star Wars movies equally boring and forgettable

In the end, they kind-of were.

 

They could've said something.

They could've said a lot.

 

About the size of the galaxy.

About luck versus destiny.

About inclusiveness opposed to "us vs. them".

About (and so on and so on).

 

But they didn't.

Not really.

 

Unless you consider TLJ as saying something about "making mistakes and learning from them".

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I like TROS a hair more than TLJ though I like both significantly less than I like TFA. This new trilogy peaked on its first entry for me. I could stomach the re-tread, tropey-ness, and largely unoriginal story in TFA because Star Wars was back, the new characters were fun, and the movie itself had good energy. But both TLJ and TROS continued to re-package and re-interpret classic Star Wars scenarios, archetypes, plot lines, and failed entirely to do anything new beyond new Force powers. This new trilogy was far too concerned with looking backwards, repackaging nostalgia, having some meta-interplay with SW tropes, but didn't look forward enough.

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3 hours ago, Pieter Boelen said:

We can argue over how successful they were.

But there is nothing wrong with creating films more accessible to women.


Of course there isn’t anything wrong with that, but it’s not like these are great films, nor are the women in them particularly interesting. Rey, Jyn, Qi’ra, and even Leia are just ok in these films. Holdo, Rose, and Phasma are pretty much worthless. Like these movies themselves, these characters are forgettable.

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1 hour ago, Demodex said:

Holdo was heroic in her sacrifice. I don't know why people don't like her. 

 

Because her entire look and demeanor seems to have been manufactured to appease a noisy segment of perpetually angry and outraged militant, blue checkmark Twitter feminists, many of which themselves sport similar outlandish purple hairdos. It appeared to work because they seem to fiercely defend the movie en masse.

 

I never once dreamed SW would be dragged into the modern culture wars, which is fundamentally different to Lucas' more tempered and meditative cautionary tales of government coups, corruption and benevolent systems becoming evil empires.

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1 hour ago, Þekþiþm said:

Because her entire look and demeanor seems to have been manufactured to appease a noisy segment of perpetually angry and outraged militant, blue checkmark Twitter feminists, many of which themselves sport similar outlandish purple hairdos.

 

Seems to have been?  To whom?  I am not a Twitter feminist nor do I have purple hair, but I accepted her as just another SW character.  I never would have thought of this "modern culture war" bullshit if it wasn't for people on the internet expressing their unhappiness with the character.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Þekþiþm said:

Because her entire look and demeanor seems to have been manufactured to appease a noisy segment of perpetually angry and outraged militant, blue checkmark Twitter feminists, many of which themselves sport similar outlandish purple hairdos. It appeared to work because they seem to fiercely defend the movie en masse.

Or more like making her look unassuming so you side with Poe and are surprised with him.

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9 minutes ago, crocodile said:

But at least it is the most character-focused film in the franchise. People say nothing happens but almost all the major characters go through a major change. And all these things are consistent with each other as well and, I would argue, with storylines established in the previous films.

 

This! THIS!!!

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Which isn’t necessarily a problem. The problem is that it’s on fast-forward: I’ve never seen a movie rush through its own plot so rapidly, and as a result it’s rendered weightless. Poe and Finn give a rallying speech to the resistance - and it just doesn’t land.

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16 hours ago, Bespin said:

False SW fans

Who are you to judge?

 

16 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:


Of course there isn’t anything wrong with that, but it’s not like these are great films, nor are the women in them particularly interesting. Rey, Jyn, Qi’ra, and even Leia are just ok in these films. Holdo, Rose, and Phasma are pretty much worthless. Like these movies themselves, these characters are forgettable.

I agree they could've done better. Far better.

Real shame that they didn't. The chance was most certainly there.

 

5 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

TRoS is designed not to hurt or upset anyone - the result is generic and boring. The same story from the original trilogy repeated, it's just realistic to say that TLJ will be more and more appreciated in the future.

Yes, it was indeed designed for that.

It failed.

It failed because it tried to do exactly that.

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5 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Its not designed to challenge anyone's opinions.

Neither should it have been designed to actively dodge that. The latter is basically the definition of bad cinema.

25 minutes ago, Pieter Boelen said:

It failed because it tried to do exactly that.

And now we have another Return of the Jedi.

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Those last couple of scenes with Luke and Vader save the movie, for me.

 

Plus, I never lost track of what happened there, which is more than could be said for this film. If anything, Return of the Jedi had too little plot.

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RotJ opened with too many Muppets.

And then teddy bears.

Neither were particularly good parts.

 

But the story elements with Yoda, Luke, Darth Vader and The Emperor certainly carried their weight!

And the space battle was excellent too.

Which makes it... I suppose... half a good movie.

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I find the slow speed space chase boring beyond belief (just launch your small fighters and destroy the ships--like you did at the start of the damn thing)  The Battle of Crait is not terrible, but it is not all that great either.  TROS, while full of holes, is not boring.  

 

I like both scores, though TROS is much more engaging.  I wish the force theme was featured less in TLJ.   

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TLJ is more well-rounded as a movie but so much of it is dedicated to military planning and hard-scifi vehicle minutia. Its sentiment often feels preachy, and is constantly undermined by overabundant quips.  

TROS is a far more flawed movie but it returns Star Wars to mysticism and old fashioned melodrama.  

Plus it has the better score, so TROS for me.

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