POLL: How do the large scale music works for the Star Wars Saga (John Williams) and Middle Earth Saga (Howard Shore) compare?

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

That is indeed Shore. It is from LOTR though. Not the hobbit. And it is indeed an outstanding theme - very beautiful and very memorable.

 

EDIT: My response was to the earlier version of your post. After your edit, I am not quite sure my response still applies but I will leave it up.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

Well I'd say it's a point against both composers then (Williams and Shore.) But my disinterest in Rey's Theme isn't a new concept.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

That ain't a fair fight right. You are picking Shore's best theme from LOTR and only picking Williams' best theme from the sequel trilogy.

 

Pick Shore's best theme from the entire work and pick JW's best theme from the entire work and have them go against each other and see how they stack up.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

I was explicitly talking about my favorite theme from The Hobbit trilogy and my favorite theme from the Star Wars Sequels.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

6 minutes ago, Borodin said:

I was explicitly talking about my favorite theme from The Hobbit trilogy and my favorite theme from the Star Wars Sequels.

 

That theme is not from the hobbit trilogy. It is from LOTR.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

Oh is it, I forgot. What track is it? It occurs a lot in The Hobbit.

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Its from Fellowship. It's literally mentioned in the video you yourself posted.

 

It is basically the Shire theme in a solo soprano setting.

 

 

 

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

That's my favorite one from the Middle Earth saga. As far as what the best example of leitmotif in The Hobbit and Star Wars Sequels is, I posted my opinion here. 

[TheUlyssesian 2,473]

Let's just say this is not how I imagined this exchange would go. But ok.

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

These are the 3 on the poll that stand out the most for each

 

Middle Earth:

More complex than Star Wars
Better evolution, development and manipulation of themes and leitmotifs than Star Wars

More coherent, tied together, and unified than Star Wars

 

Star Wars:

A greater work of film-scoring still than Middle Earth
Better themes and leitmotifs than Middle Earth
Rewards stand-alone listening experiences away from the films more than Middle Earth

[King Mark 3,625]

2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Its from Fellowship. It's literally mentioned in the video you yourself posted.

 

It is basically the Shire theme in a solo soprano setting.

 

 

 

 Like I said it sounds like Enya new agey Celtic music . Fine of you like that kind of stuff but there's tons of SW themes better than this. I think the track Rise of Skywalker trumps this and just the score to The Empire Strikes Back is better than the entire LotR and Hobbit trilogies combined.

 

Horner had a phase in the 90's where he'd write score like this, especially Titanic , Apollo 13 and Braveheart. These are also considered "best scores of all time" by a subset of flim music fans and people that normally don't like film music bought the soundtracks.Personally I don't like that sound too much  and consider it Horner's worst period.

 

 

2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

That ain't a fair fight right. You are picking Shore's best theme from LOTR and only picking Williams' best theme from the sequel trilogy.

 

 

Right , the concert version of Rey'sTheme isn't among Williams best IMO, even bottom tier for me

 

I dunno, in the end I don't think you can compare them because the "core" sound of Middle Earth Music is different than Star Wars and it depends of that type of sound and orchestrations your most attracted to.  Same can be said for Zimmer /RCP. A lot of people (You Tube commenters) are so attracted to that sound that they feel  the Star Wars scores should sound like Pirates of the Carribean or  "Epic"Trailer music

[Chen G. 3,944]

2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

That theme is not even be Shore. Isn't that a point against Shore that the most memorable theme you are able to cite - he did not even write it?

 

I was under the impression that we were comparing compositions - NOT composers.

 

If it’s in the score, it counts.

[Arpy 4,145]

Which of the two supports and enhances the scenes/films? 

 

I have to point out that  doesn't seem difficult to do for a majority of the Star Wars films and their haphazard storytelling - at this point I wonder how many of us saw Rise of Skywalker for the score not caring for the story - probably most. 

 

It's not hard to enhance some dodgy scenes and films, particularly Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones.

 

 

 

[Quintus 5,399]

6 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

You seem to conveniently ignore the Hobbit scores. LOTR is just half the work.

 

This is nonsense. The LotR isn't half of anything; it's a complete work in its own right. Only those who dote on or appreciate The Hobbit side of the filmic fiction are keen to push this "large scale" musical narrative as being a recognised "thing", but the simple reality is The Hobbit is separate to the original trilogy in the hearts and minds of those in which LotR resonates.

 

Cinematic LotR is LotR and nowt else. LotR is cut from a different cloth to The Hobbit; from aesthetics to tone and indeed to the quality of the musical composition and what it achieves: it is something entirely different to The Hobbit. Film and music.

 

The large scale musical work is The Lord of the Rings. That is Howard Shore's magnum opus and it is widely regarded as being such. I'm sorry, but what he wrote for The Hobbit afterwards is essentially irrelevant to the rounded whole that he already completed. So please, stop trying to force a narrative which doesn't exist.

 

I didn't fill in the exhaustive poll, but Star Wars probably deserves to win on a technicality. But I still prefer the complete The Lord of the Rings scores.

[Chen G. 3,944]

It exists to those who like it that way.

 

Its the same with Star Wars. For some, it’s a trilogy; for others, a hexalogy and so forth.

[Quintus 5,399]

Hey, there's probably plenty who consider the Young Indiana Jones TV series canon, and I say more power to them. But to me those guys are hopeless and not worth paying attention to.

[publicist 4,643]

So, two types of OCD guys in this thread, those who endlessly dwell on LOTR and SW, vice versa. Not much has changed since 2002 then.

[Quintus 5,399]

Next up: is Return of the Jedi a good or bad movie?

 

Followed by something on the merits of Blade Runner.

[publicist 4,643]

We tend to circle around the same limited amount of subjects in the main areas, sadly. I hope Jay does one of his Best-of threads soon, as i honestly think members (those not eternally preoccupied with light swords or LOTR appendixes) are missing out on two handful of rather good to excellent scores released between August and now. I gladly list them again!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Anyone else get erection problems?

[Oomoog the Ecstatic 314]

I thought I did a few minutes ago.

[Quintus 5,399]

6 minutes ago, publicist said:

We tend to circle around the same limited amount of subjects in the main areas, sadly. I hope Jay does one of his Best-of threads soon, as i honestly think members (those not eternally preoccupied with light swords or LOTR appendixes) are missing out on two handful of rather good to excellent scores released between August and now. I gladly list them again!

 

The scope of this place is small and shrinking. Sadly, the admin have never shown any interest in opening it up a bit.

 

Unchanging JWFan culture can be seen as a metaphor for the climate change denier movement. They think things can just carry on as they are, but when it all comes to an end, sooner than they think, it'll be too late to do anything about it.

[Jurassic Shark 12,030]

23 minutes ago, Quintus said:

 

The scope of this place is small and shrinking. Sadly, the admin have never shown any interest in opening it up a bit.

 

Unchanging JWFan culture can be seen as a metaphor for the climate change denier movement. They think things can just carry on as they are, but when it all comes to an end, sooner than they think, it'll be too late to do anything about it.

 

Spot on. I've requested a classical music subforum several times. Still no answer.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Global warming is bullshit!

[publicist 4,643]

Expel Drax!

[Quintus 5,399]

Meh, idiots be idioting. Just ignore them.

[publicist 4,643]

25 minutes ago, Quintus said:

The scope of this place is small and shrinking. Sadly, the admin have never shown any interest in opening it up a bit.

 

 

Like a blockbuster Ramadan! This either finishes this place or people suddenly experience divine enlightenment like in the Simpsons episode when all tv sets broke down and the kids had to get outside the house.

[Quintus 5,399]

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

16 minutes ago, publicist said:

Expel Drax!

 

I second the motion! Kill him!

[publicist 4,643]

Who is man enough to do the job?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

A manly man.

[Pellaeon 593]

16 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

The Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, and the three Star Wars trilogies are five large works, made up of fifteen distinct scores conceived in groups of three at a time.

 

I would say six works:

 

The Lord of the Rings

The Hobbit

Star Wars

The Empire Strikes Back + Return of the Jedi

The Prequel Trilogy

The Sequel Trilogy

[Chen G. 3,944]

In a way, I suppose that's pertinent.

 

Star Wars - musically and cinematically - sits quite apart from its two sequels.

[Pellaeon 593]

Yeah, and the OT wasn’t conceived as a trilogy (not until RotJ’s production). And in terms of musical themes, ESB is a huge innovator similar to any of the other “first acts.”

[Chen G. 3,944]

5 minutes ago, Pellaeon said:

Yeah, and the OT wasn’t conceived as a trilogy

 

Yes and no. George Lucas always had the propsect of sequels in mind, and originally being more humble, he was aiming for a trilogy: he signed the main cast for two more sequels, and contracted Alan Dean Foster for two more novelizations aside from that of the original film.

 

So there was going to be a trilogy: but certainly not the one we got. Only when Lucas rewrote The Empire Strikes Back did it become what it currently is, and Williams followed suit with the scoring, too.

[Jay 37,294]

12 hours ago, King Mark said:

did Jay just move the thread or something?

 

No, you are just not paying attention.  This thread was always in GD.  Nothing was moved or altered in any way.

[Dixon Hill 4,233]

The JWFan wheel turns.  Nothing is ever new.  Happy 2020.  Shut up, stop polling, and enjoy the music.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Anyone else like Always?

[Fabulin 3,510]

.

[Quintus 5,399]

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

No, please! Not that!