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Crazy woke Washington Post article claims that John Williams' STAR WARS music "reproduces harmful prejudices in pop culture"...

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The article basically calls John Williams a racist and his music the equivalent of wearing a blackface. At least that's the way I see it.

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I have this crazy conspiracy theory that much of these articles/thinkpieces/tweets or whatever that constitute most of the so called "woke mindset" are actually just Hollywood campaign strategists using it to tarnish the image of their adversaries.

 

Look at the Green Piece article, for example. The movie was one of the favorites to win Best Picture of the last Awards season, so, it would be very easy for a campaign strategist to pay a huge sum to an opinion columnist (actually, several influencers) to throw the image of the movie unto the mud, under the guise of fighting racism on Hollywood media, or whatever.

 

Also: remember that on January 9 2019 (i.e., right during the most heightened period of the awards campaign), the entertainment media posted the news that it was ~discovered~ that, on 2015, Green Book screenwriter Nick Vallelonga tweeted support to Trump's claim that Muslims cheered the 9/11?

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/01/green-book-nick-vallelonga-tweet-support-donald-trump-new-jersey-muslims-cheered-9-11-1202034085/

 

By that same time, reports came out that Green Book director used to flash his penis as a joke on the set of his comedy movies during the 90s:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6575737/Green-Book-director-I-idiot-genital-flashing.html

 

I'm not defending the gross behaviour of either Farrelly or Vallelonga, but look at the timing on which these news came out: right during the studios were campaigning for the Oscars.

 

How Vallelonga's tweets, made years ago, resurfaced right then? Was it because some idiot was just reading his Twitter timeline when he accidentaly saw the tweet? Much of Green Book's competitors that year had huge conglomerates behind them: Black Panther (Disney), Roma (Netflix), etc. It would be very easy for a Netflix strategist to pay some money to private investigators to unearth stuff that would tarnish the images of its makers, while at the same time paying influencers to convice the public opinion of how problematic Green Book is (and how "new and progressive" their movie is by comparison).

 

We're in january, folks, the Oscars are on the next month, and Williams will almost certainly be nominated. So, why not pay or convice someone to drag his image through the mud among public opinion?

 

At least, they will try to. Williams is too respected among Hollywood to have the same fate as really weird people like the Green Book filmmakers.

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4 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I have this crazy conspiracy theory that much of these articles/thinkpieces/tweets or whatever that constitute most of the so called "woke mindset" are actually just Hollywood campaign strategists using it to tarnish the image of their adversaries.

 

Look at the Green Piece article, for example. The movie was one of the favorites to win Best Picture of the last Awards season, so, it would be very easy for a campaign strategist to pay a huge sum to an opinion columnist (actually, several influencers) to throw the image of the movie unto the mud, under the guise of fighting racism on Hollywood media, or whatever.

 

Also: remember that on January 9 2019 (i.e., right during the most heightened period of the awards campaign), the entertainment media posted the news that it was ~discovered~ that, on 2015, Green Book screenwriter Nick Vallelonga tweeted support to Trump's claim that Muslims cheered the 9/11?

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/01/green-book-nick-vallelonga-tweet-support-donald-trump-new-jersey-muslims-cheered-9-11-1202034085/

 

By that same time, reports came out that Green Book director used to flash his penis as a joke on the set of his comedy movies during the 90s:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6575737/Green-Book-director-I-idiot-genital-flashing.html

 

I'm not defending the gross behaviour of either Farrelly or Vallelonga, but look at the timing on which these news came out: right during the studios were campaigning for the Oscars.

 

How Vallelonga's tweets, made years ago, resurfaced right then? Was it because some idiot was just reading his Twitter timeline when he accidentaly saw the tweet? Much of Green Book's competitors that year had huge conglomerates behind them: Black Panther (Disney), Roma (Netflix), etc. It would be very easy for a Netflix strategist to pay some money to private investigators to unearth stuff that would tarnish the images of its makers, while at the same time paying influencers to convice the public opinion of how problematic Green Book is (and how "new and progressive" their movie is by comparison).

 

We're in january, folks, the Oscars are on the next month, and Williams will almost certainly be nominated. So, why not pay or convice someone to drag his image through the mud among public opinion?

 

At least, they will try to. Williams is too respected among Hollywood to have the same fate as really weird people like the Green Book filmmakers.


 

I think it’s more likely there is just increased media scrutiny on these properties in general during awards season rather than some conspiracy. I’m not saying that’s never happened, but I think it’s more likely just people are taking a closer look at those who are nominated for awards than some sinister plan.

 

Like, JW was not gonna win for TROS anyways, and he’s not gonna lose because of a single opinion piece. 
 

Beyond that, you kind of defeat your own point by using examples for a film that won a bunch of awards anyways...

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3 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Hildur is behind it all! She wants that bloody Oscar! 

 

This is hilarious, but as we've seen there are many JWFans ready to actually believe it....

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Hildur will win the Oscar because of that beautiful song she tracked in the End Credits..Send in the Clowns was it? It's the only music I can remember from the movie

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1 minute ago, Taikomochi said:

I think it’s more likely there is just increased media scrutiny on these properties in general during awards season rather than some conspiracy.

 

It is not a conspiracy, it just transparently exposes the media's agenda. I would think everyone at this point would have been disabused of the notion that the media objectively "reports". The media does not "report". The media "advocates" and "proselytizes".

 

The media is not an umpire. The media is participant actor.

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At least Josh included Fox News.  If you're going to be weird, might as well go all the way. :sarcasm:

 

 

As for the article, it is sad and disingenuous.  Read it awhile back, full of inconsistencies and the troubling assumption that classical music has dwindling relevance because it's ties to the "problematic" Western cultural tradition.  

 

Anyway, does not affect John's Oscar chances.  He had none to begin with.  

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1 minute ago, Taikomochi said:

Beyond that, you kind of defeat your own point by using examples for a film that won a bunch of awards anyways...

 

I'm not saying it's an infallible, proof error strategy. What I read is that Green Book was well liked amongst the older, more conservative members of the Academy, which also probably wouldn't want to give the award to a streaming service or to a billion-dollar grossing super-hero blockbuster.

 

Younger and more diverse members probably have none of these problems, and voted for Roma or BP anyway, but they still aren't the majority of the voting board.

 

Also, yeah, Vallelonga and Farrely received Oscars that night, but do you honestly think they'll do another movie in Hollywood again? Not at least for a few years.

 

7 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Hildur is behind it all! She wants that bloody Oscar! 

 

I'm more inclined to believe it was Thomas Newman, putting into motion his dark plan of finally winning the Oscars. On the next day, we'll find out that Randy Newman knew about the abuse John Lasseter did at Pixar and did nothing to stop it, and that Hildur was actually responsible for Johann Johannssonn's death! :o

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1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

 

Give me a time in history when this wasn't the case.  Society and history is always narratives competing to be widely accepted as the "right" one.

 

The media plays a charade where they act as if they are umpires. I would think that is the most deceitful and damaging kind of advocacy.

 

The media are essentially officers and publicists of one party or another or one corporation or another. It would do a world of good if the media were to make those loyalties clear to the public.

 

I might even make the case that the media is the single most harmful institution in the country today.

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2 minutes ago, Arpy said:

I like how the author takes a dig at Lucas and by extension Disney for hiring old white guy Williams for the ninth time, hoping more diverse composers could've somehow edged their way in. 

 

Well, at least they can say that Terrence Blanchard scored the Lucasfilm produced Red Tails, lol.

 

 

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This article causes more offense than it seemingly tries to virtue signal against. What an awful piece of trash for Williams to have to read. You know, pick your fights, man, are film scores really causing as much harm as you let on? 

 

Quote

 

Debbie: Oh Karen, did you know I was like, watching Minions 6 the other day with my niece and you won't believe what I heard in the background as the bad guy showed up!

 

Karen: What!?

 

Debbie: Fucking eastern instruments and there wasn't like any cultural awareness or whatever, they just played the erhu like it was a fucking violin or something. Don't get me started on those Taiko drums! These guys who make the music for these films are like soooo racist. So asians are evil now?!! WTF?

 

Karen: I don't think I'm going to take by child to see it now, Debbie, I just don't think I can expose them to this kind of outdated thinking. Film scores need to be banned.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

 

It is not a conspiracy, it just transparently exposes the media's agenda. I would think everyone at this point would have been disabused of the notion that the media objectively "reports". The media does not "report". The media "advocates" and "proselytizes".

 

The media is not an umpire. The media is participant actor.

 

Not media in general, mind. Specifically the corporate, state-run mass media, and even specifically the so-called corporate, state-run "Western" mass media. 

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Just now, Josh500 said:

 

Not media in general, mind. Specifically the mass media, and even specifically the so-called "Western" mass media. 

Oh, yeah! Preach!  

We all need to wake up and get all our news from RT and TASS.  They tell the truth guys!

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16 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

 

Not media in general, mind. Specifically the corporate, state-run mass media, and even specifically the so-called corporate, state-run "Western" mass media. 

 

They're not state-run!  

 

Christ. Is there an "ignore user" function here?  This guy is nuts. 

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Is it cultural appropriation for a non-African-American to compose jazz? Is it cultural appropriation for a non-Asian to compose Asian-sounding music? Is it cultural appropriation for a non-Latino to compose Latin music? I wondered how long it would be before this cultural appropriation outrage made its way to the world of film music.

 

According to the logic of people like the author of this article, any movie that involves more than one culture's music style, must hire an assortment of composers that covers the gamut of those cultures. Hollywood cares too much about money to kowtow to such an insane concept, but I do hope they don't cave in to this mindset and start severely restricting the musical styles present in a film, just because "Oh, X person can't compose Y music because they're not from Y's culture." It's an easy way to make music boring, if that's what they're after.

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Hey Josh, how about you keep your personal politics to yourself when posting on JWFan, or don't post here at all.  Use other areas of the internet to get your political thoughts out


Everyone else, feel free to continue discussing this article without veering into other topics or we'll have to lock the thread

 

Thank you!

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15 hours ago, publicist said:

Interesting tidbit: Rey's Theme, it's underlying rhythm, leans heavily on a pentatonic scale. 

 

That was the first thing I thought of.

 

42f3c297041f68df59c1a3643da43f85.jpg

 

(yes I know Forrest Gump isn’t woke either)

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37 minutes ago, Jay said:

Hey Josh, how about you keep your personal politics to yourself when posting on JWFan, or don't post here at all.  Use other areas of the internet to get your political thoughts out


Everyone else, feel free to continue discussing this article without veering into other topics or we'll have to lock the thread

 

Thank you!

 

To be fair, and I'm not defending Poll500 here, fuck no, but it's fundamentally difficult to not discuss politics when the very subject of the thread is political in nature.

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7 minutes ago, Falstaft (hiatus til TROS) said:

If anyone is interested in actual good film music cultural criticism, there's plenty out there. In particular, if you want an essay on how good & evil are conveyed stylistically in this series, the standard is still James Buhler's 2001 article "Star Wars, Music & Myth." It was written pre-prequels, and there are parts you may disagree with, but on the whole it's the model for sensitive, musically-literate analysis of the broader social and political implications of Williams's music. 

 

Beginning with an Adorno quote is a bad sign, but thanks for the recommendation!

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1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I'm not familiar with Adorno, except for what I just read on Wikipedia. Why don't you like him?

 

I'm sure there are far more intellectually salient reasons to dislike him, but for me as a layman, he strikes me as someone who reverse engineered philosophy to just conveniently justify his own taste in music.

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16 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I'm sure there are far more intellectually salient reasons to dislike him, but for me as a layman, he strikes me as someone who reverse engineered philosophy to just conveniently justify his own taste in music.

 

There's a quote from Richard Taruskin at the beginning of his History of Western Music from 2005 that has always stayed with me. He calls Adorno "preposterously overrated" and laments that musicians and scholars are still engaging with his screeds.

 

Adorno's hostility towards anything other than Beethoven, Schoenberg and a few select others is legendary, particular his distaste for jazz, popular music, and film music. Star Wars would be absolute anathema to him, on every conceivable level.

 

Still, he was a brilliant music critic and hugely influential social theorist; his book on Wagner is especially a tour de force. It's just that no one especially wants to read him any more, most musicologists included...

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10 hours ago, Tydirium said:

Star Wars builds on a long history of using Eastern music to depict evil on -creen or to convey to moviegoers that they are entering an alien world. It is an established Hollywood technique, going back to such classics as (...) Maurice Jarre’s score for “Lawrence of Arabia” (1962).

Favourite bit might be this.

Bitch, how the fuck did you expect the Arabic desert and tribes to be scored in a story about the clash of cultures, if not with Eastern-inspired music? It's the classic Voice of the Guns march that intrudes on the by then established soundscape, it's probably closer to evil or alien in context than the majestic Desert theme or the fun as hell triumphal theme, or even the heavy Arab II! Wouldn't you have just as much problem with Jarre hypothetically only using Western music for all of it?

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