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John Williams' Concert Arrangements on OST Albums and where to find them


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Tracks on JW OST albums that are 100% recorded just for the album:   Checkmate The entire album  Diamond Head The entire album How To Steal A Million The entire a

I think it's better and more film score cue-like.

Nope.  It's a unique composition titled "Revenge of the Sith (DVD Version)" in the sheet music.  It is, of course, based on the film cues for their fight, like how Battle in the Forest or Scherzo for

Thanks for this. So am I understanding correctly that for the various "the entire album" ones—that those were all recorded separately from the actual film score cues, specifically for the purpose of putting together an album?

 

I notice that those are the earlier scores; is that just how OSTs were typically done back then before digital editing was a thing? Or was this just Williams' preference back then?

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5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Wasn't that mostly edited together from bits and pieces?

 

Nope.  It's a unique composition titled "Revenge of the Sith (DVD Version)" in the sheet music.  It is, of course, based on the film cues for their fight, like how Battle in the Forest or Scherzo for X-Wings are concert arrangements based on film cues too

 

4 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

Thanks for this. So am I understanding correctly that for the various "the entire album" ones—that those were all recorded separately from the actual film score cues, specifically for the purpose of putting together an album?

 

Yup

 

Quote

I notice that this seems to be mostly with his earlier scores; is this just how OSTs were typically done back then

 

Yup

 

 

Quote

Or was this just Williams' preference back then?

 

I think it was just what happened with most scores at the time for the most part

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Interesting. In that case, for playlist purposes I may only include one or two tracks from those, that seem to be more theme-centric (the sort of tracks that, had the rest of the album been film cues/film cues stitched together like for his later scores, they still would have been recorded separately and included).

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40 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

I notice that those are the earlier scores; is that just how OSTs were typically done back then before digital editing was a thing? Or was this just Williams' preference back then?

 

When the entire album was a re-recording, money was often an important factor. The costs were reduced by re-recording abroad and/or by using a smaller ensemble to avoid or reduce the union fees. This was quite common in the sixties and seventies.

 

38 minutes ago, Jay said:

Nope.  It's a unique composition titled "Revenge of the Sith (DVD Version)" in the sheet music.  It is, of course, based on the film cues for their fight, like how Battle in the Forest or Scherzo for X-Wings are concert arrangements based on film cues too

 

Interesting. How long has this been known, and do we know what DVD version refers to?

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A lot of times, they were recording the film cues just to be good enough for the film's mono film mix with no other concerns. Then if an album was going to be an option, they'd rearrange and extend some film cues and record that in stereo 

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8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

When the entire album was a re-recording, money was often an important factor. The costs were reduced by re-recording abroad and/or by using a smaller ensemble to avoid or reduce the re-use fees. This was quite common in the sixties and seventies.

 

Interesting, and makes sense. Not the 60s or 70s, but would Broughton's THE BOY WHO COULD FLY be an example of this phenomenon? The initial 1986 album was actually a re-recording, done with the Sinfonia of London.

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Just now, Tydirium said:

 

Interesting. Not the 60s or 70s, but would Broughton's THE BOY WHO COULD FLY be an example of this phenomenon? The initial 1986 album was actually a re-recording, done with the Sinfonia of London.

 

I'm not familiar with that one, but it seems to fit the bill, being a smaller foreign ensemble.

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@Jay has made a pretty fantastic list there! 

 

@Falstaft (hiatus til TROS)'s Star Wars catalogue also has more information on the concert arrangements like what themes are used, if the piece differs from or is similar to a cue in the film, and details about further arrangements, recordings, and so on. An essential resource for those interested.

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Here’s how I listen to them:

 

Star Wars: I used to have Leia’s Theme at the top of my playlist, i.e., preceding the film score as an overture. Later I removed it from the film score playlist because I compiled a separate playlist of the concert suite. Lately I have been thinking of re-including it after TIE Fighter Attack (where the 93 Anthology places it), because it does nicely break up all the action cues.

 

Empire: I currently have Imperial March, Yoda’s Theme, and Han Solo and the Princess (Gerhardt) at the top of the playlist, again as a rather extended overture, followed by the film score. This is basically how I arrange most of my playlists.

 

E.T.: E.T. and Me, Flying, and Over the Moon, followed by the film score. (I didn’t think the other OST tracks were very different from the film score tracks.)

 

Jedi: Parade of the Ewoks, Luke and Leia, and Jabba the Hutt (Skywalker Symphony) as overture, followed by the film score, in which I integrate Lapti Nek and At the Court and Ewok Celebration as if they were film cues.

 

Force Awakens: I skip the OST altogether, and listen to the FYC and a separate, maximal concert suite assembly (Lockhart plus a few other things).

 

Solo: I move The Adventures of Han to the end of the playlist. Meet Han is a perfect album opener. Adventures of Han is much better as a finale.

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Hm, regarding DOTF, I guess I'm just confused as to whether this is a case of the chicken or the egg: do we know that the piece was only recorded as part of the end credits, and was then later extracted into just a track of its own—or was it recorded as a concert piece first, and then inserted into the credits?

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1 hour ago, Pellaeon said:

The Adventures of Han?

 

Has it been ruled out that it was ever intended as an end credits suite?

 

I only included films he scored himself, so skipped past Solo A Star Wars Story and Yes Giorgio

 

I would say Adventures of Han is JW's own concert arrangement of the 2 themes he wrote for Powell to integrate into his score.  it was recorded in LA conducted by JW while the rest of the score was conducted by Powell in London.

 

 

1 hour ago, Tydirium said:

Hm, regarding DOTF, I guess I'm just confused as to whether this is a case of the chicken or the egg: do we know that the piece was only recorded as part of the end credits, and was then later extracted into just a track of its own—or was it recorded as a concert piece first, and then inserted into the credits?

 

Duel of the Fates was written and recorded as 7M3 End Credits, and 7M3 End Credits Insert was written to bridge from Augie's to it, like is heard on the OST album and in the film.  They also recorded the end of the original End Titles from SW77 at the TPM sessions as well, but that went unused and they put Anakin's Theme in to end the end credits of the film and OST, leaving the new recording of SW77 end credits unreleased (but it turned up in video game files)

 

 

1 hour ago, rough cut said:

I was also thinking about Harry’s Wonderous World from “HP1”?

 

That's simultaneously both 9M3 End Credits Part 1 from the film AND the final piece of the Children's Suite.  It's impossible to know which it was conceived for first, I suppose, but I consider it to be something he first wrote for the end credits and later realized it would make a good ending to the suite as well.

 

 

The Children's Suite from Harry Potter is:

 

  • I. Hedwig's Flight, released as OST 01 where it was renamed "Prologue" (so that name had to be retained on the La-La Land expansion)
  • II. Hogwarts Forever, partially (no clean opening) released within OST track 9 as the second part of "Hogwarts Forever! and The Moving Stairs"
  • III. Voldemort, unreleased until the La-La Land expansion (disc 3 track 3)
  • IV. Nimbus 2000, unreleased until the La-La Land expansion (disc 3 track 4)
  • V. Fluffy And His Harp, released as OST 14 where it was renamed "Fluffy's Harp" (so that name had to be retained on the La-La Land expansion)
  • VI. Quidditch, unreleased until the La-La Land expansion (disc 3 track 6)
  • VII. Family Portrait, unreleased until the La-La Land expansion (disc 3 track 7)
  • VIII. Diagon Alley, partially released within OST track 5 as the first part of "Diagon Alley and The Gringotts Vault"
  • IX. Harry's Wondrous World, which is basically "9M3 End Credits Part 1" from the film cues, except with a new ending.  The OST's track 2 "Harry's Wondrous World" presents "9M3 End Credits Part 1" with the original ending as written for the film, but there is a microedit omitting a small section.  "Harry's Wondrous World (Extended Version) from the La-La Land expansion is the full cue without that microedit.  The new ending written for the Children's Suite but never recorded at the HP1 sessions was recorded at the HP2 sessions, and released on THAT OST album's "Harry's Wondrous World" from 4:44-end.  On the La-La Land expansion of HP1, this hybrid track is used on disc 3 despite partially containing that HP2 recording because JW requested it; originally Mike had Harry's Wondrous World (Extended Version) there instead to keep all 3 discs entirely HP1 recordings.
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  • 2 weeks later...

 

On 1/9/2020 at 5:51 PM, Tydirium said:

What about "Theme from Angela's Ashes"?

 

I believe both track 1 "Theme From Angela's Ashes" and track 18 "Angela's Ashes Reprise" are identical presentation of the end credits, and the album-specific concert arrangements are only the 3 tracks listed in the main post.

 

 

34 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

Is "Hell's Kichen" from SLEEPERS a concert arrangement? Have never seen the film so I'm not familiar.

 

I believe the Sleepers OST is comprised entirely of film cues but not 100% sure.  @Romão would know!

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Thanks; that makes sense. As for "Hell's Kitchen", I ask because I just saw a couple reviews which referred to it as a concert arrangement, but I wasn't sure if they were accurate.

 

EDIT: Either way, apparently Williams has performed it as an encore. Would be curious to know if the version he played live was any noticeably different from the OST one...

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  • 4 months later...
On 1/9/2020 at 6:14 PM, Jay said:

The Phantom Menace

  • Anakin's Theme, though this also plays in the end credits of the film after the End Credits cue

 

Well actually... On my last listen to the Demaster track 3 really sounded like it started with a fadein so I checked...

Kepernyofelvetel_381.png

 

That looks pretty identical to me beside the slightly different volume level. Maybe a different take with the exact same timing and orchestration but just compare the transition bit in the credits with Demaster track 3, that's totally just the credits bit chopped off with a fadein. So it should probably be counted the same as

On 1/9/2020 at 6:14 PM, Jay said:

The Phantom Menace

  • Duel of the Fates is actually 7M3 End Credits

 

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On 1/23/2020 at 7:54 AM, Tydirium said:

Thanks; that makes sense. As for "Hell's Kitchen", I ask because I just saw a couple reviews which referred to it as a concert arrangement, but I wasn't sure if they were accurate.

 

EDIT: Either way, apparently Williams has performed it as an encore. Would be curious to know if the version he played live was any noticeably different from the OST one...

 

I'm 99% it was the same. I don't recall noticing any differences. 

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Heh, I forgot I made this thread!

 

3 hours ago, Holko said:

Well actually...

 

I think you misinterpreted my post; I was saying that Anakin's Theme was recorded specifically for the album, but then got tracked into the final film's end credits anyway, basically the exact same situation as Love Theme from Superman

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I mean, he did write music specifically for the end credits, that's what Duel of the Fates is, and he wrote that new end credits bridge to get from the 77' end credits directly into DOTF.  As for why he didn't do a medley of other themes for after the DOTF cue ends instead of using only the Anakin's Theme arrangement, I doubt we'll ever know why that happened.

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If Duel of the Fates is the end credits, what exactly did JW recorded for the actual duel between Obi-Wan, Qui-Gonn and Darth Maul? Was a film cue based on Duel of the Fates? And was that used? Because, if I'm not wrong, the movie uses portions of the DOTF end credits suite for the battle. 

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John Williams wrote normal film cues for the entire movie, George Lucas just replaced portions of some of them with tracked in music from the end credits cue

 

Specifically, the names of the cues for the third act are:

 

6M1    The Armies Face-Off
6M2    Lazer Fight
6M3    Take To Your Ships
6M4    The Big Army
6M4A    The Fight Begins
6M5    Droid Battle
6M6    Up the Wire
6M7    The Great Dual
6M8+9    Qui-Gon's Noble End
6M10    Blowups and the Death of Darth Maul
6M11 New    End of Darth Maul
7M1     After the Victory
7M1A    Qui-Gon's Funeral
7M2-New    Augie's Great Municipal Band

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Well, it isn't all that different from what is heard in the movie except it suddenly stops, which I don't exactly care for. I associate the ending with the Episode One video game. It's pretty cool how the ending of the concert version is used when the fighting stops. 

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11 hours ago, Jay said:

Hell's Kitchen is a film cue, it's 1M4


As far as I remember, the track named “Hell’s Kitchen” on the OST is actually the end credits cue. It was performed live as a concert piece first at Tanglewood in 1996 and then in London in 1998.

 

 

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Yeah, it's indeed better and maybe even more "epic" than the concert arrangement for the credits. Lucas should've stick with that instead of tracking the end credits.


Reel 6 got heavily re-edited several times. The version Williams wrote his music to was already different than the one he had during the recording, so he had to do several podium changes. However, Lucas and Burtt continued to change and re-edit that reel well after scoring was done, so it’s likely that what JW recorded didn’t fit the film anymore.

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6 hours ago, TownerFan said:

Reel 6 got heavily re-edited several times. The version Williams wrote his music to was already different than the one he had during the recording, so he had to do several podium changes. However, Lucas and Burtt continued to change and re-edit that reel well after scoring was done, so it’s likely that what JW recorded didn’t fit the film anymore.

 

And even with all these changes the music that Williams wrote for climax is absolutely stunning. 

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On 1/9/2020 at 6:14 PM, Jay said:

Home Alone Main Title ("Somewhere In My Memory") is in actuality the film cues 1M2 Home Alone (Main Theme) [0:00-1:04] & 2M2 Banished to the Attic [1:04-1:32] & the album-only recording Somewhere in My Memory (Album Intro) [1:32-2:31] & the film cue 11M4B End Title Part II [2:31-end].  The 2015 La-La Land expansion finally presented just Somewhere in My Memory (Album Intro)11M4B End Title Part II together without the 1M2 & 2M2 bits as Somewhere In My Memory, disc 1 track 1.

Where can I find the complete cue list for Home Alone?

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On 1/22/2020 at 5:28 PM, Tydirium said:

Is "Hell's Kichen" from SLEEPERS a concert arrangement? Have never seen the film so I'm not familiar.

 

On 1/22/2020 at 5:50 PM, Jay said:

I believe the Sleepers OST is comprised entirely of film cues but not 100% sure.  @Romão would know!

 

On 1/22/2020 at 5:54 PM, Tydirium said:

As for "Hell's Kitchen", I ask because I just saw a couple reviews which referred to it as a concert arrangement, but I wasn't sure if they were accurate.

 

On 6/6/2020 at 4:55 PM, Jay said:

Hell's Kitchen is a film cue, it's 1M4

 

On 6/7/2020 at 4:33 AM, TownerFan said:

As far as I remember, the track named “Hell’s Kitchen” on the OST is actually the end credits cue.

 

TBF, I was only looking at the Sleepers cue list posted here:

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20819-the-complete-cue-lists-thread/&do=findComment&comment=1639623

 

Which doesn't indicate any album specific recordings, nor an end credits composition.  Of course, it could simply be that all the sheets didn't leak, I have no idea.

 

I also didn't notice until now that 1M4 AND 8M5 NEW are both titled Hell's Kitchen... and of course, JW renames stuff for OST albums all the time.

 

Maybe someone with the sheets can figure out what's on the OST?  @BrotherSound maybe?

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On 1/9/2020 at 6:14 PM, Jay said:

These scores are confirmed to have nothing recorded specifically for album use

  • Images

 

I believe the cue "Blood Moon" was originally recorded for the planned album because it doesn't appear anywhere in the film and it truly sounds like a concert-ized version of the main thematic subject of the score.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

I also didn't notice until now that 1M4 AND 8M5 NEW are both titled Hell's Kitchen... and of course, JW renames stuff for OST albums all the time.

 

Maybe someone with the sheets can figure out what's on the OST?  @BrotherSound maybe?

 

8M5 New is the Hell's Kitchen track on the album. It appears to have been written solely as a concert arrangement, since JW wrote only "Hell's Kitchen" on the sketch, but someone else added the 8M5 New. There’s no sync points, in any case.

 

image.png

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Interesting!

 

I'm sure what happened was, then, was that as post-production went on, the 9 reel film shrunk to an 8 reel film, so 8M5 NEW was actually the final slate of the end credits.

 

Neat!

 

Main post updated.

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