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John Williams Best Score Oscar Nomination for The Rise of Skywalker!

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I could barely hear They Will Come in the film and the last section of the Victory theme was cut out.Same with the big statement in Farewell...it sort of didn't stick out for some reason. The only thing in the film that really sticks out is Lando Arrives and it's unreleased music both on the OST and FYC

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1 hour ago, mrbellamy said:

And I agree that beyond lacking anything emotionally, very little sticks out technically either in terms of highlighted sync points or score against memorable shot sequencing. Lando's fleet is one of those things where the timing of the music with the reveal just makes it work (along with familiarity, obviously), even though as a story beat, who cares. I can think of other moments I like such as the low brass when Kylo Ren chucks the lightsaber, the light side Kylo theme when he zips into frame at Exegol. Rey hearing the Jedi voices is elegantly scored. But it's tough when even as a die-hard JWFan I'm grasping for straws.

 

I agree with those examples, and off the top of my head I would add the March of the Resistance before the final battle (yeah a repeat of the same scene in TFA, but still effective), the quiet elegy at the beginning of The Force Is With You when Rey is laying on the ground looking up at the fleet of her friends being destroyed by the Sith (IIRC), or the variation of her theme when she is revived by Kylo. Hey, maybe we're grasping at straws, but there are quite à a few of them ! 

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My main hope is that kids have gotten something out of all 3 of these. It’d just be a shame if they’re not treasured on that level. It’d be a nice thing for John’s legacy to say his newest music transfixed the current generation of kiddos and that about 10 years from now there will be soundtrack geeks in their 20s waxing lyrical about the first time they heard Rey’s Theme. 

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27 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

 

It's so weird because, in the case of Abrams, the admiration would seem to be at odds with the results. Abrams can't say enough good things about Williams, talks about growing up with his music, spoke about how surreal it was getting to work with him, etc. That somehow doesn't translate over to the films he worked on, especially with TROS. I don't doubt Abrams when he says the things he does concerning Williams, but it's just hard to rectify the discrepancy when you getting to work with your childhood hero somehow equates to insufferably moving around, cutting up, and dialing out their pieces of music. 
 

 

You know, for the previous 2 ST films, whenever I heard someone say stuff like "there was no good new music, the only good stuff were the old returning themes," I would usually just chalk it up to that person either not having familiarized themselves with the score enough, having not paid attention well enough during the film, or them choosing to hear only what they wanted to hear (not to say you can't dislike the ST scores, but to say there is "zero good new music" in them, I mean, come on).

But with this film, I totally get why someone would walk away with that feeling and don't blame them in the slightest. The massive moments of musical prominence in this film are almost all entirely given to older themes: Yoda's theme as Luke lifts the X-Wing, the Imperial March as the Star Destroyers are assembled, the main titles as Lando's fleet arrives, the Force theme as Rey hears the voices of the Jedi, etc. It's absolutely bonkers how little the new material is able to shine. 

 

The most egregious thing for me is how the climactic statement of the Victory Theme (from "Farewell") is actually used/mixed in the film. When I first heard that bit in the FYC a couple weeks before the film, I was blown away and thought "My gosh, this is the sort of epic, conclusive music that I never knew STAR WARS needed, but it is perfect." I could not wait to hear how it was used in the film. And then... it wound up being mostly covered by dialogue and sound effects. :crymore:

 

Oh well. At least we got "The Rise of Skywalker" which I maintain is a perfect arrangement of the two major new themes from the film. Just sad that the theme wasn't given more chance to shine in the actual film. The trumpet statement of it in "Approaching the Throne" is absent from the film, as is the lush string-driven version heard after the Resistance material in "They Will Come". If they were looking to minimize that theme earlier in the film so that it would be an even bigger moment when the "Farewell" statement finally arrived, I would get it—but that final moment was so butchered that it makes the earlier exclusions inexcusable.

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11 minutes ago, Pawel P. said:

There must be something wrong with me because I think the score is fantastic, it works great in a movie (that I really liked!), and equally well, if not better on the album. :)

 

Nothing wrong with you at all. That's your opinion and you are more than entitled to it. Don't let us weigh you down with our negativity!

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1 hour ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

Abrams can't say enough good things about Williams, talks about growing up with his music, spoke about how surreal it was getting to work with him, etc.  It's so weird because, in the case of Abrams, the admiration would seem to be at odds with the results. The massive moments of musical prominence in this film are almost all entirely given to older themes: Yoda's theme as Luke lifts the X-Wing, the Imperial March as the Star Destroyers are assembled, the main titles as Lando's fleet arrives, the Force theme as Rey hears the voices of the Jedi, etc. It's absolutely bonkers how little the new material is able to shine. 

A little restructuring and you have nearly answered your own question.

 

If Johnson is like that kid who takes all their toys and goes on an adventure understandable mostly to them and their own sense of humour, JJ is like the unimaginative kid who takes the action figures, slams the good guys against the bad guys like in the film, and then tosses the toys aside and tells mom at the dinner how much he loves the film.

 

The ability to speak doesn't make JJ intelligent, and the comments of his underlings about how their boss is "nice" don't either. He is just too stupid for directing Star Wars.

 

Btw. whenever I'm returning home the last couple of days, I hear a moment of a certain film, where two rather silly characters ride on a big CGI dog, at night, along a beach, but the music is incredible and it feels like Star Wars. This is what understanding and admiration for a composer on the part of the director looks like.

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15 hours ago, Taikomochi said:

Seems like JJ, in all his fanboyism, thought it was enough for Williams just to be involved in the film, like his name was more important than his work. Johnson was more interested in actually collaborating with Williams.  Of course, TFA is still a masterpiece to my ears and the best of the three in score, but it’s faults (low mixing, short/choppy cues) speak to that different approach. I think TLJ has more going on under the hood.

Isn't it similar of what Lucas did in the prequels? There's a lot of micro-editing, tracked music (with weird decisions: I still can't understand why Lucas thought reprising the area music during Anakin's march to the Jedi temple was a good idea, or even an ok idea), etc. I think that Johnson did a better job because he's a very good director, he understands all the aspects of his movie whereas JJ simply is not that good. Despite of TLJ being a less interesting score with less themes, it works so well in the movie that I like it more.  

 

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17 hours ago, Tydirium said:

 

The most egregious thing for me is how the climactic statement of the Victory Theme (from "Farewell") is actually used/mixed in the film. When I first heard that bit in the FYC a couple weeks before the film, I was blown away and thought "My gosh, this is the sort of epic, conclusive music that I never knew STAR WARS needed, but it is perfect." I could not wait to hear how it was used in the film. And then... it wound up being mostly covered by dialogue and sound effects. :crymore:

That wasn't the case for me; I remember someone here pointed that out back when the film first came out, how the Farewell cue frlt like it was wasted, however when I finally saw it, and heard it, it was one of the few times they let the score breathe! It works well with the falling star destroyers, and then picks back up when they spot Rey - it was a brilliant moment both visually and musically.

 

The Speeder Chase (film cue), Falcon Flight, Fleeing Kijimi and most of the other cues mixing was far more egregious!

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1 hour ago, DrTenma said:

Isn't it similar of what Lucas did in the prequels? There's a lot of micro-editing, tracked music (with weird decisions: I still can't understand why Lucas thought reprising the area music during Anakin's march to the Jedi temple was a good idea, or even an ok idea), etc. 

That is actually a rare case that I don't mind so much, because the cue was dialled out of the original arena scene and so was used for the first time in the temple scene.

What's bad about it is the fact it's repeated twice in a very noticeable way...

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32 minutes ago, ChrisAfonso said:

That is actually a rare case that I don't mind so much, because the cue was dialled out of the original arena scene and so was used for the first time in the temple scene.

What's bad about it is the fact it's repeated twice in a very noticeable way...

I kind of recall that part was also used for the Kashyyyk battle, or am I wrong? I agree that if the cue is used before in a relevant scene it sticks more, but I always felt that scene could had either the imperial march, the emperor's theme, the music from "Palpatine TV set", or even silence... Also, do we know if Williams composed something for that? was a last minute adding to the picture and Williams couldn't compose something?

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I certainly felt like the end of Farewell was meh in the film after listening to the FYC for a week and the OST for 2 days. Something about the mixing or I dunno. Could have just been the cinema?

 

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2 hours ago, Holko said:

I certainly felt like the end of Farewell was meh in the film after listening to the FYC for a week and the OST for 2 days. Something about the mixing or I dunno. Could have just been the cinema?

 

I also thought the same thing.

Before i saw the film I thought that the big new theme would be used for a wide landscape scene or something..

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I showed my brother (who is nowhere near a film score fanatic like I am) the audio of the Oscars music arrangement they played; he thought the only good part was the TROS music. He couldn't believe that JOKER won. So even based on that brief medley, Williams' music comes across as the most likable...

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Had the sequel trilogy been better planned, JW’s music would have been given more room too shine.

 

Bad planning and a lack of vision and leadership led to the polarizing The Last Jedi, which meant that Disney/Abrams felt they had to “correct” the mistakes Johnson had done to the lore and character archs set up in the previous films.

 

The panic over not knowing which way to take the story (should’ve thought about that sooner!) probably caused a panic (so many meetings!) and a whole bunch of production problems that would’ve made the whole thing extremely hard to plan. I heard they were still shooting 12 days before the premiere!

 

These “corrections” that had to take place in Rise of Skywalker to “save the franchise” makes the storytelling and production feel forced, convoluted and rushed, but in the end I think they did a good job. 

 

I guess one of the things that suffered was how the music was handled - even though I loved every note of it - but I do understand people’s complaint that it didn’t have a “stand out moment”. 

 

All things considered, it’s a wonder Rise Of Skywalker came out as good as it did.

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On 2/7/2020 at 4:11 AM, TheUlyssesian said:

The film did not have a breakout score moment. JJ bungled it.

 

Ep7 had Jedi Steps. 

Ep8 had The Spark.

Ep9 could have been the Victory fanfare. But JJ botched the edit. 

 

Every one of the new films has made a mess in their application of the music. As a director known for his love and admiration of movie brat cinema, JJ sure doesn't understand the organic integration of score in those films that inspired him. He's a pretty shit director really.

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The directors of these things are only partly to blame. In the end Disney got the trilogy they headed the committee on.

 

Then you've got people like Stefan, who doggedly believe that in years to come Revenge of the Sith will be considered some sort of classic, which is hilarious.

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The victory of Joker is just a total shame. Completely politically driven. The "music" is nothing in this film. Makes me cry that JW couldn't have a single oscar for the last 6 Star Wars movies he scored, and not even for the last one he will ever score. This is just outsdandingly unbelievable...

Seriously, the Joker OST... makes me so sad fo rthe future of film music....Synth layers, everywhere....

 

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I don't recall anything from the music of the Joker film. I think it got my attention in a couple of scenes, but that's all I can remember. I may have to watch the film again to try and hear why it won the Oscar.

 

And of course, I really loved The Rise of Skywalker score, and I still hum those new themes, even though I haven't seen the film since December 19th. You're attracted to them immediately, and they stick with you for weeks to come. Then again, I went to the film with the specific intention of paying attention to the score.

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On 2/7/2020 at 3:11 PM, TheUlyssesian said:

The film did not have a breakout score moment. JJ bungled it.

 

Ep7 had Jedi Steps. 

Ep8 had The Spark.

Ep9 could have been the Victory fanfare. But JJ botched the edit. I would have used the crescendo of the theme to show the departing Rebel fleet and then shots of several planets celebrating over that theme with almost no VFX. That would have been a breakout score moment.

You conveniently forgot Reunion and A New Home.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Arpy said:

You conveniently forgot Reunion and A New Home.

 

 

 

Not Speaking from my perspective. From my perspective the entire score is great. I love all of it. I am going by the general audience's perspective. And for them, this episode did not have a stand out score moment.

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15 hours ago, rough cut said:

The panic over not knowing which way to take the story (should’ve thought about that sooner!) probably caused a panic (so many meetings!) and a whole bunch of production problems that would’ve made the whole thing extremely hard to plan. I heard they were still shooting 12 days before the premiere!

 

The final cut was locked on November 24th, 2019, according to what JJ said on Colbert.

The film's LA premiere was December 16th, 2019.

That doesn't seem to fit the timeline of still shooting 12 days before the premiere.

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