Bayesian 1,348 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 I've long been fascinated by these two tracks, which represent takes on the same general theme (and were written within a couple years of each other) by two composers who appear to have had little interest in the other's work: Both evoke a future that seems reachable yet beyond our grasp, both set a tone for its film, both use a steady rhythmic pulse to indicate the rationality (or at least the non-organic-ness) of machines. But that's where the similarities end. Horner's track is a lot more optimistic than Williams', but JW's Mecha World isn't flat-out dystopian or anything either.. it's, I dunno, alarming, if that makes sense. I like them both. I think Horner's is the more accessible and ear candy-ish, but it's also probably the best track in the album and it self-plagiarizes like mad. JW's is the more enjoyable in the long run and it gets followed up by a lot more equally great material. Do you have a preference for one over the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,450 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 THE MACHINE AGE sounds like typical late 90s Horner, which sounds like a souped-up, proto A BEAUTIFUL MIND, and, at around 3:10 goes all BIRD OF PREY DECLOAKS. THE MECHA WORLD, on the other hand, is among the finest single pieces of film music, in the last 30 years. Absolutely no fucking contest. Williams stamps all over the Horner track, and goes "Cock-a-doodle-do"! Good day, to you, sir. Bayesian and jocores 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Really? Understand: I'm not being merely facetious; I'm genuinely interested in why you believe Mecha World is so standout. I admit I don't know AI film and score as well as I should like, but I just listened to the cue in question, and whilst it definitely features a strong Williamsy highlight in the middle, I'm still not hearing anything approaching top tier level. Then again, I'm suspecting the ol' appreciation/enjoyment borne of familiarity is probably in play, as it always is with soundtrack audio. But objectively, I don't hear enough sustenance detail in one cue to raise it above or place it even on par with Williams' very best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,382 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said: THE MACHINE AGE sounds like typical late 90s Horner, which sounds like a souped-up, proto A BEAUTIFUL MIND, and, at around 3:10 goes all BIRD OF PREY DECLOAKS. THE MECHA WORLD, on the other hand, is among the finest single pieces of film music, in the last 30 years. Absolutely no fucking contest. Williams stamps all over the Horner track, and goes "Cock-a-doodle-do"! Good day, to you, sir. Exactly that. jocores 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Nick Parker 3,040 Posted January 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 hours ago, Quintus said: Really? Understand: I'm not being merely facetious; I'm genuinely interested in why you believe Mecha World is so standout. I admit I don't know AI film and score as well as I should like, but I just listened to the cue in question, and whilst it definitely features a strong Williamsy highlight in the middle, I'm still not hearing anything approaching top tier level. Then again, I'm suspecting the ol' appreciation/enjoyment borne of familiarity is probably in play, as it always is with soundtrack audio. But objectively, I don't hear enough sustenance detail in one cue to raise it above or place it even on par with Williams' very best. I know you were asking Richard, but as someone who considers this track not just a Williams highlight, but one of his favorite tracks ever, I'll say why I love it. The track is like you're a tiny Innerspace version of yourself riding on a river. It starts with a steady, yet small stream, with this sense of chugging and churning anticipation. It's light for a little while, but Williams gradually introduces the deep, lower end, building that anticipation even further. The chords start getting more dissonant, and that almost neutral sense of anticipation from before gets colored, and ominous; like that little stream you've been riding on is expanding, and you feel yourself starting to go down a slope, unsure if you'll quite make the drop. You do, and the track keeps building, and building. Come on, Williams, can you push it any more than you have? The answer is yes. After a brief respite, the music suddenly inclines even more, sharply, getting intense, more intense, more intense, then! 3:08 hits, and you see the whole vista in front of you has expanded into this beautiful, wide view of paradise. Bliss. The water is white levels of intensity, before calming down to a tranquil trickle, and your ride stops there. AI is a very spiritual score for me, and The Mecha World is one of several tracks that hit really close to home. Arpy, Not Mr. Big, Bayesian and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,266 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: THE MACHINE AGE sounds like typical late 90s Horner Which is exactly why it is perfect I know my opinion is extremely unpopular, but I'm a fan of late 90s/early 2000s Horner, warts and all. Deep Impact, Bicentennial Man, The Perfect Storm, Enemy at the Gates, A Beautiful Mind, The New World, even more experimental stuff like House of Sand and Fog. In fact, my favorite era for Horner goes from Legends of the Fall in 94 to The New World in 2005, as opposed to 97% of the film music fans who prefer his 80s music. MikeH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 It's a shame The Mecha World is truncated in the film and cloaked in sound effects, possibly one of the only disappointing things about listening to the score first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Williams v Horner I enjoy Mecha World. The Horner track immediately gives me the warm fuzzies, but the tone completely changes and sounds like a mishmash of Sneakers and Casper? I have to go with...John Williams. This time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Both evoke John Adams, though JW's piece is much more modeled on Adams' famous music. Horner leans on several minimalist composers with his interlocking pianos (Adams' Halleluia Junction' may be a template). For me, Horner sounds more 'mathematic', which was obviously the gestating idea when it was applied to the two pictures linked below. Bayesian and MikeH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 What I always took away from Bicentennial Man was the relaxing angelic twinkly bits. The kind of stuff that would be right at home playing in a Disney theme park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 It's Horner at his sludgiest. The final cue is very beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 I don't even mind that he riffs on the wedding melody from Deep Impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 It speaks of Hollywood's limited imagination that both have kitschy, pop-song like ballads for their 'love stories' even if the movies don't really request them. Like a safety net. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Schindler's List could have been a smash hit if only Horner had penned a big Josh Groban ballad for it. Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,382 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 4 hours ago, publicist said: It speaks of Hollywood's limited imagination that both have kitschy, pop-song like ballads for their 'love stories' even if the movies don't really request them. Like a safety net. The worst example of that is Coma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh500 1,615 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 JW's Mecha World expresses the industrial, faceless, and mindless world of the dystopian future, I think... Underneath the busy bustle there's something absolutely cold, ruthless, and ultimately terrifying about it. A sense of inevitable doom and senselessness. JH's piece I don't know well enough to judge, one way or another. @Bayesian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 16 hours ago, Bayesian said: by two composers who appear to have had little interest in the other's work: Was there ever any statement or indication from either man towards that end? I seem to fuzzily recall Horner being on at least one occasion quite positive about JW (don't ask me for a citation, I have no memory where or when I might have read this.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,304 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Like pub mentions, "The Mecha World" is more obviously modelled after Adams, whereas Horner piece amalgamates those colours into his own schmaltzy sound. But I vastly prefer the Williams piece. Minimalist rhythms aside, it's just harmonically leagues ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayesian 1,348 Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 9 hours ago, Gruesome Son of a Bitch said: I don't even mind that he riffs on the wedding melody from Deep Impact. He was so in-your-face about his lifts... how did he ever get away with it, I wonder? Tydirium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Bayesian said: He was so in-your-face about his lifts... how did he ever get away with it, I wonder? I don’t think he ever thought of them as lifts, just a part of his vocabulary. From his comments over the years I got the impression that he saw all of his work as part of one big piece that he continually refined. Themes were more representative of certain emotions/situations rather than tied to a particular movie. He said on more than one occasion that the color/orchestration of the film was more important to him than the themes, which always came second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayesian 1,348 Posted January 18, 2020 Author Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 hours ago, MikeH said: I don’t think he ever thought of them as lifts, just a part of his vocabulary. From his comments over the years I got the impression that he saw all of his work as part of one big piece that he continually refined. Themes were more representative of certain emotions/situations rather than tied to a particular movie. He said on more than one occasion that the color/orchestration of the film was more important to him than the themes, which always came second. I never knew any of that. That stands to reason, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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