Spielberg bowing out of Indy 5, James Mangold possibly taking over - Will John Williams score the movie?

[crumbs 12625]

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Who will they favor: a director unwilling to work with Williams, or to stay true to the musical heritage of the franchise?

 

I think you're reaching a little here.

 

I remember the panic in 2013 when many suspected Abrams didn't want Williams doing Star Wars and was arguing for Gia to replace him. Instead, Williams clearly had first right of refusal on the whole trilogy (and enough clout to write the themes on another film).

 

Mangold will probably aim for the franchise's roots (that gritty Raiders style over the cartoon antics in the sequels) and there's no reason Williams wouldn't be best placed to score that approach. It's equally possible JW won't have any interest in revisiting the series without Steven (perhaps coming back was just an obligation to his good friends SS/GL, and he doesn't have the same interest in the series' musical legacy like he does with SW).

[Fabulin 3433]

.

 

[Edmilson 4514]

20 minutes ago, crumbs said:

I think you're reaching a little here.

 

I remember the panic in 2013 when many suspected Abrams didn't want Williams doing Star Wars and was arguing for Gia to replace him. Instead, Williams clearly had first right of refusal on the whole trilogy (and enough clout to write the themes on another film).

 

Mangold will probably aim for the franchise's roots (that gritty Raiders style over the cartoon antics in the sequels) and there's no reason Williams wouldn't be best placed to score that approach. It's equally possible JW won't have any interest in revisiting the series without Steven (perhaps coming back was just an obligation to his good friends SS/GL, and he doesn't have the same interest in the series' musical legacy like he does with SW).

 

It's just that the Beltrami scores for Mangold I've heard are pretty modern, something a director who thinks Williams is old-fashioned (in a bad way, as in melodramatic and manipulative) would ask from his composers. But sure, he may change his mindset for Indy. 

 

Nathan Johnson's scores for Rian were in the same vein, but I don't think it's the same situation here. They wouldn't let the ST in the hands of a newcomer, but about Indy... Maybe they don't think Beltrami is not exactly a poor choice?

 

But who knows. I like Mangold as a filmmaker, and I'm really curious for a collab between him and JW.

[phbart 556]

Since this is the main franchise, not a spinoff, there must be names from the old days attached to it, both in front of and behind the cameras. Kathleen Kennedy is not stupid and knows better than this. In front of the cameras we still have Harrison Ford. Behind the cameras, the only name left is JW.

 

So I guess we're ok... as long as he brings back "The Adventures of Mutt". Otherwise, bring in Giacchino!

[mstrox 5681]

I want Spielberg to score the movie.

[Bellosh 1727]

1 minute ago, mstrox said:

I want Spielberg to score the movie.

 

"Steven had actually written two themes, and I think my only input was can't you use both? AND HE DID, he made the latter the bridge, and the former the main theme."

[MrScratch 293]

Spielberg is still producing and will be heavily involved and I'm sure Williams still feels some musical ownership towards the franchise. They will undoubtedly offer it to Williams first.  The likeliest scenario is a Solo/Superman IV type of arrangement with Williams composing a new theme or two with another composer taking on the rest of the scoring duties.

[Quintus 5394]

1 hour ago, mstrox said:

I want Spielberg to score the movie.

 

He'll give it a 5 out of 5, at least in the junkets. He'll ask Jim Cameron for tips on what to say.

[MSM 90]

I wouldn’t want anyone else but JW for Indy 5.

[Once 550]

11 hours ago, Fabulin said:

I think the most realistic thing that could happen is that Williams, encouraged by Spielberg, Kennedy, and Ford, will contribute themes, give advice, and sometimes help with cues, but himself stay comfortably out of pressures that he realizes he is getting too old for [like Goldsmith did in 1999], and Powell, trusted by Disney, Williams, and Ford, will do his best composing the rest.

I think that’s the least likely scenario. I think Williams vastly prefers to have full control over his musical output, and the few times he has “featured” or “collaborated” on a score it has been because of unique circumstances.

 

He is definitely not too old for it, he is very used to writing music for feature-length films. He even requested that Kobe Bryant would give him a feature film to score.

What Williams needs is the time and budget to compose and record the way he is used to - with the best people in the business and a locked picture - and that’s something few modern directors and studios are willing to give.

If he is at all interested in Indy 5 without Spielberg, I’m confident that he’ll accept it.

 

And I know, I know, he won’t stay fit forever. No one will. But some people stay healthy and fit for a damn long time; my great-grandmother is only limited by her poor eyesight, and she’s 107 years old. That’s not the norm, but Williams hasn’t yet shown any sign of getting too old for his business, quite the contrary.

[Not Mr. Big 4049]

Williams may not want to write guitar-twanging Spaghetti Western shit though...

[Richard Penna 2510]

11 hours ago, Once said:

What Williams needs is the time and budget to compose and record the way he is used to - with the best people in the business and a locked picture - and that’s something few modern directors and studios are willing to give.

 

Most of those elements aren't a problem - working with the best in the business and having the time and budget to compose and record properly.

 

But there is no way that a director is going to lock the movie 3 months in advance just so that JW doesn't have to do quite as much re-writing. That's a yearning for a simpler filmmaking period when JW produced some of his classic scores.

[Tom 3397]

On 2/26/2020 at 7:04 PM, Edmilson said:

I don't think Williams has any power of influencing who may or may not be hired as a composer. Imagine if Disney actually WANTS Mangold involved, but he'll only do the movie if he can work with his regular team, which includes Beltrami.

 

Now, let's suppose Williams asks his assistant to put some Beltrami on YouTube, and dislikes the guy after hearing one of his horror scores, or some of his generic action music for the Die Hard sequels, Max Payne, etc. So, what would happen? Would Disney listen to Williams or to Mangold? Specially considering that, unless Spielberg does his other movies at Fox, he may never collaborate with Disney again, so they don't care about him.

I think we have this all wrong.  Williams and Spielberg have had a falling out.  He told KK that he could not work with Spielberg and that she had better find another director.  

[JTWfan77 1312]

On 2/27/2020 at 2:49 PM, Fabulin said:

If only Mangold pressures Powell out of silly percussion

 

Yes!

 

On 2/27/2020 at 2:49 PM, Fabulin said:

and perhaps more into brooding synths

 

No!

[KK 3251]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

I think we have this all wrong.  Williams and Spielberg have had a falling out.  He told KK that he could not work with Spielberg.

 

I'm technically bound by a hundred NDAs...but I can verify this.

[wowbobwow 48]

On 2/26/2020 at 7:59 PM, crumbs said:

I think John would intervene if Gia went anywhere near this, if the rumours about Rogue One are true. He doesn't care about the silly dinosaur franchise but Indiana Jones is his other baby (next to SW). 

 

What's the story here?

[mstrox 5681]

There's rumor floating about that Williams was very unhappy with Giacchino's Rogue One score, had recommended Desplat, went on to recommend Powell for Solo.  There's more nuance than that, but I'd be arsed to track it down.  It's a rumor, but I've seen it corroborated by sources I'd trust.

[Remco 648]

I really hope JW is able in this stage of his career to promote Powell - they seem to be friendly with each other and Powell has only produced quality in recent years, if you ask me.

[Edmilson 4514]

Powell being mentored by Zimmer and then Williams on different stages of his career could be the plot of a great fantasy martial arts movie. The main hero is trained in two very different styles of Kung Fu by two legendary masters. 

 

Or just Anakin learning the Light and the Dark Side of the Force, lol.

[Fabulin 3433]

To be fair, the Jedi of the sort Williams represents, are all but extinct or exiled.

 

Zimmer meanwhile represents the "technological terror".

 

And remember how Giacchino was the Chosen One? How he was supposed to destroy the Sith---not join them?

Now he is the prime musical enforcer of the Mouse Empire.

 

George Lucas foretold it all.

[Unlucky Bastard 7770]

At least Beltrami will have a longer OST than Williams did.

[Luke Skywalker 1440]

I want Williams to score this thing, but it would be curious to have giacchino score all of.my beloved franchises. Indy, star wars  and Jurassic park. Anyway giacchino would have been the perfect option to score a Indy videogame set in the 30s, ....20 years ago...

[Edmilson 4514]

On 2/28/2020 at 5:27 PM, Fabulin said:

To be fair, the Jedi of the sort Williams represents, are all but extinct or exiled.

 

Zimmer meanwhile represents the "technological terror".

 

And remember how Giacchino was the Chosen One? How he was supposed to destroy the Sith---not join them?

Now he is the prime musical enforcer of the Mouse Empire.

 

George Lucas foretold it all.

 

Williams = Obi-Wan

Steiner = Yoda

Goldsmith = Qui-Gonn

Zimmer = Palpatine

Gia = Vader

Powell = Rey

Desplat = Finn

Balfe = Kylo

[Matt C 437]

13 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Most of those elements aren't a problem - working with the best in the business and having the time and budget to compose and record properly.

 

But there is no way that a director is going to lock the movie 3 months in advance just so that JW doesn't have to do quite as much re-writing. That's a yearning for a simpler filmmaking period when JW produced some of his classic scores.

 

Some directors still lock their movies in advance, depending on how production and post-production goes. It's increasingly rare and generally only happens if a movie gets pushed back.

[Arpy 4072]

I can see Williams still attached to this purely to close out the Indy saga. I can also see this being somewhat of a 'passing of the torch' scenario where a younger composer is asked to come aboard and begin the new Indy franchise.

[Josh500 1608]

5 hours ago, Arpy said:

I can see Williams still attached to this purely to close out the Indy saga... 

 

I'm thinking there's never going to be a closing. It'll go on and on, with new directors, writers, actors, composers... As long Disney deems it profitable, it'll go on. Just like with Star Wars! 

[Arpy 4072]

Hence my second part where they'll do a soft reboot until the IP is utterly spent and all the spin-off shows and games have failed.

[Quintus 5394]

Coming in so late into a production schedule which appears to have already been locked down... Just wait until the creative differences kick in mid shoot and Marigold starts wanting to rejig the film a bit (probably to be less shit, bless him). People will be brought back for reshoots and a re-edit will be in order, delays to the release announced. The score repurposed and rewritten. Etc etc, you know how it goes with these big bought in Disney franchises.

[Jurassic Shark 9355]

Except that they don't give delays however much it's needed.

[crocodile 6867]

Given the lukewarm reception the previous Indy score received on this board, and similarly muted reaction to his last few SW scores, wouldn't it be better if Williams focused his energy on something more nourishing in his late 80's? Can you imagine a score he could to for a Terrence Malick film or some sprawling period drama? It seems to be that's where he'd excel these days.

 

Karol

[Remco 648]

1 minute ago, crocodile said:

Given the lukewarm reception the previous Indy score received on this board, and similarly muted reaction to his last few SW scores, wouldn't it be better if Williams focused his energy on something more nourishing in his late 80's?

 

Karol

 

I agree, but the reaction to the ST scores has been good, generally. Many fans around here.
 

I’d love the prospect of another Indy score, but I can imagine JW at 88 wanting to do something else with his time...

[Lamasseux 6]

I really hope John Williams will do the score for Indy 5. If not, there is no interest for me in this project (with Spielberg gone and Harisson Ford who begins to be really old for this kind of films)

[Not Mr. Big 4049]

3 hours ago, crocodile said:

Given the lukewarm reception the previous Indy score received on this board, and similarly muted reaction to his last few SW scores, wouldn't it be better if Williams focused his energy on something more nourishing in his late 80's? Can you imagine a score he could to for a Terrence Malick film or some sprawling period drama? It seems to be that's where he'd excel these days.

 

Karol

The last major sprawling period drama in Hollywood was... War Horse?

[JohnnyD 1111]

This is surprising. However, Spielberg will still be involved with the fifth entry as a hands-on producer; I'm not worried. I'm confident the Maestro will still do the music.

[mrbellamy 5624]

11 hours ago, crocodile said:

Given the lukewarm reception the previous Indy score received on this board, and similarly muted reaction to his last few SW scores, wouldn't it be better if Williams focused his energy on something more nourishing in his late 80's? Can you imagine a score he could to for a Terrence Malick film or some sprawling period drama? It seems to be that's where he'd excel these days.

 

Karol

 

As far as film scores go, currently the situation seems to be we’re getting Indy 5 or nothing. 

[Tom 3397]

11 hours ago, crocodile said:

Given the lukewarm reception the previous Indy score received on this board, and similarly muted reaction to his last few SW scores, wouldn't it be better if Williams focused his energy on something more nourishing in his late 80's? Can you imagine a score he could to for a Terrence Malick film or some sprawling period drama? It seems to be that's where he'd excel these days.

 

Karol

Maybe Williams could sign a dual-scoring deal, like he did with ROTS and KOTCS, writing generic music to be inserted as needed with some new themes here or there.  

[Alex 2389]

If he does I hope he has the decency to include the best parts of the score on the album

[JohnnyD 1111]

I would be surprised and absolutely shocked if the Maestro was NOT doing the music as he has done since the beginning of the Indiana Jones saga. Since Spielberg is still involved with the film as a hands-on producer, not to mention Kathleen Kennedy is also involved (as she has been since Raiders of the Lost Ark). I have no doubts that the Maestro will do the music.

 

Also, I remember Spielberg confirming in an interview that John Williams would definitely return for Indy V. I believe it was sometime after Lucasfilm announced the next installment in 2016, and the interview where Spielberg confirmed the Maestro's involvement was at the time that the Maestro was receiving the AFI Life Achievement Award.

 

Plus, I find the idea of James Mangold working with the Maestro very intriguing. Ford vs. Ferrari was an excellent film, and I heard Logan was very well done (I never got into the X-Men films, so I never saw it).

[Trent B 321]

I think everyone here is being too harsh on Giacchino and Beltrami. Grant a lot of their music isn't that great but there's a lot of their music that is. I think an Indiana Jones score from either composer would be interesting.  I also think this board is way too harsh on the Rogue One score. I for one enjoy it and think Giacchino did a good job on it.

[Luke Skywalker 1440]

I hope we see the complete Rogue one some day.

[Trent B 321]

7 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

I hope we see the complete Rogue one some day.

 

Me too. Honestly I'm surprised the complete score hasn't surfaced yet.

[Edmilson 4514]

An edit of the complete Rogue One score was on that now deceased place where people used to worship the Japanese RPG, but it contained sound effects, specially during the action moments.

[mstrox 5681]

I'm convinced that Williams will still do this score, as it is as much his legacy as the SW saga, which he made a point to complete.

 

Of the two other names thrown around, I'd much rather hear a Giacchino Jones score than a Beltrami Jones score.

[Ricard 1996]

On 3/1/2020 at 6:08 AM, Trent B said:

I think everyone here is being too harsh on Giacchino

 

No.

[aviazn 267]

Okay, I'll bite. I would actually be curious (morbidly?) to hear a Giacchino Indy score. His MOH stuff was Indy-lite and still had some of his best-developed themes and one-off action motifs. It's not so much that I think he could recapture that—his voice has departed so much from that—but I would be interested to see if and how he might revisit or engage with that style from his early material.

[The Five Tones 292]

James Mangold on the red carpet for Indy 5: "So what happened was Clint Eastwood just showed up on day one of shooting and wanted to direct an Unforgiven style Indiana Jones. How could I say no to Clint Eastwood? We kept it quiet until now, and he was more than happy to work without credit, sort of like an invisible man sitting in the chair. And then Ennio Morricone called Clint and said he was sorry for refusing to work with him before, so Clint had him score the picture... discreetly, in Italy, of course. Maestro had some rather radical ideas on how to improve John Williams' classic music. He thought it was hazardous to associate a march, no matter how well written, with archaeology, so he went with a six-voice double fugue, using both the A and B Raiders themes. Marco Beltrami absolutely could not say no, and in fact he was over the moon. Harrison was just happy to give the fans something they weren't anticipating."

JW to his assistant: "Book me on the next flight to Rome. I've got a job. And pack my titanium baton, I've been wanting to try it out."

[Brundlefly 2308]

Ennio Morricone to score Indy 5? A nice thought.

[Fabulin 3433]

.

[JoeinAR 1853]

On 2/26/2020 at 2:44 PM, Ricard said:

No JW no interest

Get out of my mind.

[Jurassic Shark 9355]

18 minutes ago, Fabulin said:

Imagine Morricone scoring Indy 5, and getting an Oscar for that.

JWFan:

 

...and the score will mainly consist of unreleased music from The Thing.