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Spielberg bowing out of Indy 5, James Mangold possibly taking over - Will John Williams score the movie?


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2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Who will they favor: a director unwilling to work with Williams, or to stay true to the musical heritage of the franchise?

 

I think you're reaching a little here.

 

I remember the panic in 2013 when many suspected Abrams didn't want Williams doing Star Wars and was arguing for Gia to replace him. Instead, Williams clearly had first right of refusal on the whole trilogy (and enough clout to write the themes on another film).

 

Mangold will probably aim for the franchise's roots (that gritty Raiders style over the cartoon antics in the sequels) and there's no reason Williams wouldn't be best placed to score that approach. It's equally possible JW won't have any interest in revisiting the series without Steven (perhaps coming back was just an obligation to his good friends SS/GL, and he doesn't have the same interest in the series' musical legacy like he does with SW).

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No JW no interest

Obviously Powell is the best choice as heir apparent to Williams. He's done it with one franchise, bearing fantastic results, and he seems to have a continuing friendship with the Maestro too. Plus, j

No.

20 minutes ago, crumbs said:

I think you're reaching a little here.

 

I remember the panic in 2013 when many suspected Abrams didn't want Williams doing Star Wars and was arguing for Gia to replace him. Instead, Williams clearly had first right of refusal on the whole trilogy (and enough clout to write the themes on another film).

 

Mangold will probably aim for the franchise's roots (that gritty Raiders style over the cartoon antics in the sequels) and there's no reason Williams wouldn't be best placed to score that approach. It's equally possible JW won't have any interest in revisiting the series without Steven (perhaps coming back was just an obligation to his good friends SS/GL, and he doesn't have the same interest in the series' musical legacy like he does with SW).

 

It's just that the Beltrami scores for Mangold I've heard are pretty modern, something a director who thinks Williams is old-fashioned (in a bad way, as in melodramatic and manipulative) would ask from his composers. But sure, he may change his mindset for Indy. 

 

Nathan Johnson's scores for Rian were in the same vein, but I don't think it's the same situation here. They wouldn't let the ST in the hands of a newcomer, but about Indy... Maybe they don't think Beltrami is not exactly a poor choice?

 

But who knows. I like Mangold as a filmmaker, and I'm really curious for a collab between him and JW.

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Since this is the main franchise, not a spinoff, there must be names from the old days attached to it, both in front of and behind the cameras. Kathleen Kennedy is not stupid and knows better than this. In front of the cameras we still have Harrison Ford. Behind the cameras, the only name left is JW.

 

So I guess we're ok... as long as he brings back "The Adventures of Mutt". Otherwise, bring in Giacchino!

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Spielberg is still producing and will be heavily involved and I'm sure Williams still feels some musical ownership towards the franchise. They will undoubtedly offer it to Williams first.  The likeliest scenario is a Solo/Superman IV type of arrangement with Williams composing a new theme or two with another composer taking on the rest of the scoring duties.

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11 hours ago, Fabulin said:

I think the most realistic thing that could happen is that Williams, encouraged by Spielberg, Kennedy, and Ford, will contribute themes, give advice, and sometimes help with cues, but himself stay comfortably out of pressures that he realizes he is getting too old for [like Goldsmith did in 1999], and Powell, trusted by Disney, Williams, and Ford, will do his best composing the rest.

I think that’s the least likely scenario. I think Williams vastly prefers to have full control over his musical output, and the few times he has “featured” or “collaborated” on a score it has been because of unique circumstances.

 

He is definitely not too old for it, he is very used to writing music for feature-length films. He even requested that Kobe Bryant would give him a feature film to score.

What Williams needs is the time and budget to compose and record the way he is used to - with the best people in the business and a locked picture - and that’s something few modern directors and studios are willing to give.

If he is at all interested in Indy 5 without Spielberg, I’m confident that he’ll accept it.

 

And I know, I know, he won’t stay fit forever. No one will. But some people stay healthy and fit for a damn long time; my great-grandmother is only limited by her poor eyesight, and she’s 107 years old. That’s not the norm, but Williams hasn’t yet shown any sign of getting too old for his business, quite the contrary.

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11 hours ago, Once said:

What Williams needs is the time and budget to compose and record the way he is used to - with the best people in the business and a locked picture - and that’s something few modern directors and studios are willing to give.

 

Most of those elements aren't a problem - working with the best in the business and having the time and budget to compose and record properly.

 

But there is no way that a director is going to lock the movie 3 months in advance just so that JW doesn't have to do quite as much re-writing. That's a yearning for a simpler filmmaking period when JW produced some of his classic scores.

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On 2/26/2020 at 7:04 PM, Edmilson said:

I don't think Williams has any power of influencing who may or may not be hired as a composer. Imagine if Disney actually WANTS Mangold involved, but he'll only do the movie if he can work with his regular team, which includes Beltrami.

 

Now, let's suppose Williams asks his assistant to put some Beltrami on YouTube, and dislikes the guy after hearing one of his horror scores, or some of his generic action music for the Die Hard sequels, Max Payne, etc. So, what would happen? Would Disney listen to Williams or to Mangold? Specially considering that, unless Spielberg does his other movies at Fox, he may never collaborate with Disney again, so they don't care about him.

I think we have this all wrong.  Williams and Spielberg have had a falling out.  He told KK that he could not work with Spielberg and that she had better find another director.  

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1 hour ago, Tom said:

I think we have this all wrong.  Williams and Spielberg have had a falling out.  He told KK that he could not work with Spielberg.

 

I'm technically bound by a hundred NDAs...but I can verify this.

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There's rumor floating about that Williams was very unhappy with Giacchino's Rogue One score, had recommended Desplat, went on to recommend Powell for Solo.  There's more nuance than that, but I'd be arsed to track it down.  It's a rumor, but I've seen it corroborated by sources I'd trust.

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I want Williams to score this thing, but it would be curious to have giacchino score all of.my beloved franchises. Indy, star wars  and Jurassic park. Anyway giacchino would have been the perfect option to score a Indy videogame set in the 30s, ....20 years ago...

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On 2/28/2020 at 5:27 PM, Fabulin said:

To be fair, the Jedi of the sort Williams represents, are all but extinct or exiled.

 

Zimmer meanwhile represents the "technological terror".

 

And remember how Giacchino was the Chosen One? How he was supposed to destroy the Sith---not join them?

Now he is the prime musical enforcer of the Mouse Empire.

 

George Lucas foretold it all.

 

Williams = Obi-Wan

Steiner = Yoda

Goldsmith = Qui-Gonn

Zimmer = Palpatine

Gia = Vader

Powell = Rey

Desplat = Finn

Balfe = Kylo

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13 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

 

Most of those elements aren't a problem - working with the best in the business and having the time and budget to compose and record properly.

 

But there is no way that a director is going to lock the movie 3 months in advance just so that JW doesn't have to do quite as much re-writing. That's a yearning for a simpler filmmaking period when JW produced some of his classic scores.

 

Some directors still lock their movies in advance, depending on how production and post-production goes. It's increasingly rare and generally only happens if a movie gets pushed back.

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I can see Williams still attached to this purely to close out the Indy saga. I can also see this being somewhat of a 'passing of the torch' scenario where a younger composer is asked to come aboard and begin the new Indy franchise.

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5 hours ago, Arpy said:

I can see Williams still attached to this purely to close out the Indy saga... 

 

I'm thinking there's never going to be a closing. It'll go on and on, with new directors, writers, actors, composers... As long Disney deems it profitable, it'll go on. Just like with Star Wars! 

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Coming in so late into a production schedule which appears to have already been locked down... Just wait until the creative differences kick in mid shoot and Marigold starts wanting to rejig the film a bit (probably to be less shit, bless him). People will be brought back for reshoots and a re-edit will be in order, delays to the release announced. The score repurposed and rewritten. Etc etc, you know how it goes with these big bought in Disney franchises.

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1 minute ago, crocodile said:

Given the lukewarm reception the previous Indy score received on this board, and similarly muted reaction to his last few SW scores, wouldn't it be better if Williams focused his energy on something more nourishing in his late 80's?

 

Karol

 

I agree, but the reaction to the ST scores has been good, generally. Many fans around here.
 

I’d love the prospect of another Indy score, but I can imagine JW at 88 wanting to do something else with his time...

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3 hours ago, crocodile said:

Given the lukewarm reception the previous Indy score received on this board, and similarly muted reaction to his last few SW scores, wouldn't it be better if Williams focused his energy on something more nourishing in his late 80's? Can you imagine a score he could to for a Terrence Malick film or some sprawling period drama? It seems to be that's where he'd excel these days.

 

Karol

The last major sprawling period drama in Hollywood was... War Horse?

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11 hours ago, crocodile said:

Given the lukewarm reception the previous Indy score received on this board, and similarly muted reaction to his last few SW scores, wouldn't it be better if Williams focused his energy on something more nourishing in his late 80's? Can you imagine a score he could to for a Terrence Malick film or some sprawling period drama? It seems to be that's where he'd excel these days.

 

Karol

 

As far as film scores go, currently the situation seems to be we’re getting Indy 5 or nothing. 

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11 hours ago, crocodile said:

Given the lukewarm reception the previous Indy score received on this board, and similarly muted reaction to his last few SW scores, wouldn't it be better if Williams focused his energy on something more nourishing in his late 80's? Can you imagine a score he could to for a Terrence Malick film or some sprawling period drama? It seems to be that's where he'd excel these days.

 

Karol

Maybe Williams could sign a dual-scoring deal, like he did with ROTS and KOTCS, writing generic music to be inserted as needed with some new themes here or there.  

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I would be surprised and absolutely shocked if the Maestro was NOT doing the music as he has done since the beginning of the Indiana Jones saga. Since Spielberg is still involved with the film as a hands-on producer, not to mention Kathleen Kennedy is also involved (as she has been since Raiders of the Lost Ark). I have no doubts that the Maestro will do the music.

 

Also, I remember Spielberg confirming in an interview that John Williams would definitely return for Indy V. I believe it was sometime after Lucasfilm announced the next installment in 2016, and the interview where Spielberg confirmed the Maestro's involvement was at the time that the Maestro was receiving the AFI Life Achievement Award.

 

Plus, I find the idea of James Mangold working with the Maestro very intriguing. Ford vs. Ferrari was an excellent film, and I heard Logan was very well done (I never got into the X-Men films, so I never saw it).

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I'm convinced that Williams will still do this score, as it is as much his legacy as the SW saga, which he made a point to complete.

 

Of the two other names thrown around, I'd much rather hear a Giacchino Jones score than a Beltrami Jones score.

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Okay, I'll bite. I would actually be curious (morbidly?) to hear a Giacchino Indy score. His MOH stuff was Indy-lite and still had some of his best-developed themes and one-off action motifs. It's not so much that I think he could recapture that—his voice has departed so much from that—but I would be interested to see if and how he might revisit or engage with that style from his early material.

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