THE LAST OF US (HBO TV) - spoilers allowed for aired episodes (game spoilers masked)

[Docteur Qui 1418]

56 minutes ago, enderdrag64 said:

 

While they may not be a great indicator of the actual quality of a work, I do think that user review systems give people an important voice against the powers at be when they make shitty decisions.

 

Steam's user review system is notorious for this, but it happens all the time:

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Review_bomb

 

In a world where the average person doesn't have much influence over the direction of corporate decisions, I think that user reviews can be an important form of protest, similar in value to what the YouTube dislike button used to have

 

 

I wouldn't put Steam reviews in the same category as IMDB or RT because Valve have an explicit financial interest in the games that are being reviewed. I agree that it's an inherently unfair system which should be pushed back on, and it's only in the past few years that other online gaming shopfronts have become even remotely competitive. It's a similar situation to Amazon reviews; I don't trust them at all, even with all the attempts at transparency and user verification. Billion-dollar mega-corporations are not trustworthy platforms for reviews.

 

The equivalent would be if RT or IMDB were the only places to view the movies or shows that are being rated, which is not the case. The biases that I'm concerned with are informed by the user base rather than any shady business practices. In terms of the critic reviews Rotten Tomatoes literally just aggregates existing data, and all those conspiracies about the site shilling for Disney because The Last Jedi has a 90% rating are completely bogus. But that didn't stop an actual conspiracy to review-bomb the film from occuring.

 

One could argue there should be more transparency to whom Rotten Tomatoes considers to be a "critic", particularly in the changing media landscape, but as far as I'm aware there haven't been any major controversies surrounding this.

[Disco Stu 15468]

I thought RT had done stuff to mitigate the ability to “review bomb” something

[Docteur Qui 1418]

2 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

I thought RT had done stuff to mitigate the ability to “review bomb” something

 

They may have, but the idiots who pull these campaigns always have a way around those kinds of protections. At any rate we're talking about IMDB which clearly has no such interventions.

[Bespin 6820]

So "THIS IS" the new hot TV series?

 

I watched the first Episode, and 10 minutes of the Episode 2... then I stopped it.

 

I think Pedro Pascal is a much better actor when he wears a mask!

 

I'm not sure about the young actress who plays the 14 yo girl too...

 

So I discover this is a series adapted from a videogame... ah... I should have guessed that!

[Jay 30970]

You really need to continue and at least see episode 3, Bespin.  Trust me.

[Bespin 6820]

22 minutes ago, Jay said:

You really need to continue and at least see episode 3, Bespin.  Trust me.

 

It's the only reason I started watched this series, because it supposedly have a gay love story that will make me cry.

 

I'm happy it will help to change the mentality of some straight guys, it will not change mine!

 

YAWN.

[Jay 30970]

It's not another fridging story.

[Not Mr. Big 4047]

Who still rates things on IMDB anyway??  They completely removed the social component of it so now it's just like throwing numbers out into the void.

[MaxMovieMan 73]

8 hours ago, Bespin said:

So "THIS IS" the new hot TV series?

 

I watched the first Episode, and 10 minutes of the Episode 2... then I stopped it.

 

I think Pedro Pascal is a much better actor when he wears a mask!

 

I'm not sure about the young actress who plays the 14 yo girl too...

 

So I discover this is a series adapted from a videogame... ah... I should have guessed that!

Sad opinion and terrible take buddy.

[Jay 30970]

The Last Of Us 1x03 Long, Long Time

 

I thought this episode was really special when it aired, and my appreciation has only increased in the days since.  It's hard to tell a complete, memorable story with characters you care about in just 46 1/2 minutes, and they really did so here!  And how refreshing that was it was two middle-aged dudes who finally got to have something they hadn't had before, and die happy in old age together.  A lot of people say this is a sad episode, but these guys had a happy ending, as happy as you get get in the apocalyptic setting the show takes place in.

 

It wouldn't have worked without two talented actors, and both Nick Offerman and Maury Bartlett really nailed everything they had to do, and then some.  Nick Offerman was perfectly cast (amazing that they originally wanted Con O'Neill to do it)!  He's one of those comedic actors who knows drama so well, and does it better because of the comedic background.  I loved that it was his idea to say the "jack-booted thugs" line outloud instead of just being internal direction, that's such a great way an actor can elevate the material and I'm sure there was a tons of little things like that.  Bartlett was the perfect screen partner for him to, they really were great together.  That strawberry scene was so touching (You have to imagine Bill ran out of sugar years and years prior and this was probably the first sweet thing they've tasted in ages), as was their entire initial courtship.

 

I loved how balanced they were.  Bill was a brilliant protector, who clearly had an apocalypse plan and nailed it as soon as he could.  How smart was it to use his neighbor's boat as a trailer, raid Home Depot and the power plants to stock up on those essentials.  Not to mention he figured out how to break down a car battery into its component parts to last longer in the fridge!? (I'm not sure what they are doing for gas 20 years after refineries shut down though, unless Joel and Tess bring that to them or something).  And his traps were awesome, loved the angle grinders making sparks to just burn alive all the raiders.  And the pit that poor Frank probably hurt himself pretty good falling into.  And Frank taught Bill how to open up and make your home worth living in.  I love that their relationship wasn't portrayed as being rosy all the time despite everything they had going for it.

 

People viewing this as some kind of detour are totally missing how important this episode is for Joel's character, with Bill's note practically spelling it out for the audience in the end.  I loved the scene where Joel and Tess come over for lunch and Tess and Frank leave Joel and Bill alone for a bit, knowing they'll find some common ground.  I love how they recognize a lot of themselves in each other, and how Joel offers the stuff to make his fence better - for both of them.  Bill hated the world and realized it was worth living to save one person and share a life with them, rather than just surviving.  And we have to hope Joel will take that to heart and do the same for Ellie, which at the end of the episode he sure seems to be ready to do.

 

But before that I liked how the episode started, with Joel alone by the river, likely thinking about Tess and hoe he failed her like he failed Sarah.  And I love that Ellie is ready to stand up and state it's not her fault what happened - and that Joel gives that curt little nod in agreement.  Fantastic wordless response.  The fact that they enter a Cumby's was a nice local touch for us Massachusetts-ers, though of course the geography shown doesn't exist 10 miles west of Boston (which is like, Waltham).  I was very intrigued by the scene with Ellie and the creature in the basement (kind of halfway between a regular infected and a clicker, right?  He had one eye covered in fungus, and was starting to make clicker-esque noises).  I was just like her at that age, in terms of always wanting to explore everywher even when I knew I shouldn't.  But with the creature, I read her cutting it open and then killing it in a couple ways.  One was the conversation she had with Joel in the last episode, asking him if its hard to kill them knowing they were once human.  When she cuts his face and sees nothing but fungus under the skin, I think that makes it easier for her.  And I think she killed it to sort of get experience, since she feels so far behind what Joel and Tess know.

 

The pit they find of bodies, and Joel revealing that FEDRA burned people alive that weren't even infected yet just to cut down on the number of people in QZs was horrifying.  The world building this show has is paced out just how I like it so far.

 

I loved the touch that when they get to Bill's house, Joel notices the wilted flowers and immediately knows what's up.  I like that he so callously asks "so they're dead?", before being willing to hear the note. And I like that the note hit home, because Bill has such insight into Joel's character.  But of course he couldn't know that Joel had just lost Tess.  At least Joel did the right thing at the end.  

 

Loved the truck scene!  The sheer joy on Ellie's face and the way she reacted to everything in the car was great.  Of course it'd seem like a spaceship to her, and she'd have no idea what a seatbelt was.  That scene reminded me a bit of the spaceship scene from game 2, actually.

 

Oh yea, and she finally gets a gun before they leave!  The show has shown us the violent side of Joel, and I think they've nicely hinted that something similar could exist in Ellie - her description of the violence in Mortal Kombat II, the way she plays with her knife whenever she can, always asking for a gun, cutting and killing the proto-clicker, and now the gun.  Can't wait to see her get a a chance to use it!

[Yavar Moradi 1689]

16 hours ago, Bespin said:

 

It's the only reason I started watched this series, because it supposedly have a gay love story that will make me cry.

 

I'm happy it will help to change the mentality of some straight guys, it will not change mine!

 

YAWN.

How can you know without actually watching it? It’s a masterpiece with incredible acting performances, and since you strangely dislike Pedro and Bella in this, I guess you should know that they are only briefly in the beginning and end of the episode, not the focus of it at all.

 

Yavar

[JNHFan2000 1365]

This episode is really something special.

I really feel that how Bill & Frank met, is the definition if 'right place, right time'. And they had so much to offer each other.

 

Bill knew how to survive.

Frank knew how to live.

 

And I feel very strongly that from a certain point of view Bill & Frank 'won' the apocalypse. They got to live their life, just the 2 of them. Love each other without anyone feeling that they shouldn't. And they had a beautiful happy ending. It's just fantastic!

[Jay 30970]

Funny story.  So I watched the first two episodes without my wife; She was away on a business trip anyway, but also she hates zombie things and doesn't really like scary things and had indicated this probably wasn't going to be for her.

So cut to last Sunday and she goes up to brush her teeth and get ready for bed and I start watching episode 3.  She comes down maybe 10 minutes into it and kind watches for a bit, ends up sitting down and watching the whole rest of the episode with me.  She loved it.

 

So this we watched episodes 1 and 2 (and the first 10 minutes of episode 3... and we actually re-watched the whole Joel/Ellie ending too) together and now she's in for the rest of the season with me (which basically means I won't be seeing them until Monday evenings instead of Sunday evenings but oh well)

 

 

So re-watching these episodes: Man, they hold up!  I was just as into them the second time around, maybe more.  Plus I got to enjoy some background details I completely missed the first time.  Like the FEDRA chart that shows how long you have before turning based on where you got bit, and how Tess's bite was far enough away from her head to be plausible she made it to the statehouse.  And I saw the clicker on the roof in the lightning at the end of the first episode.  Oh, and when they see all the infected hanging out on the streets of Boston, I noticed that they begin moving in unison when the sun shines on them, which I hadn't picked up on the first time through.  I thought that was interesting.

 

But one strange thing is the number of similar gunshot wounds the show has done.  Sarah, then Marlene, then Bill all get shot in the love handle.  Why use the same spot over and over again?

[Jay 30970]

Some other things I forgot to mention:

 

I love the bit in episode 2 when they are in the hotel lobby, and there's a frog on top of the piano making some notes ring out.  That was so well done

 

I also loved in episode 2 when they finally busted out their shoulder-mounted flashlights like you have in the game!  And they Ellie used it in episode 3 as well

 

It was so cool to see Tess again in episode 3 after dying in Episode 2.  Especially because we only saw her in the first 2 episodes recently traumatized and with a huge black eye, it was nice to see her in more normal times.  It was kind of surprinting, though, to learn that her and Joel were a couple for over a decade, didn't see that coming.  It seems like the kind of relationship that would only work for a few years, tops!

 

I'm very curious about the new bit in the show that wasn't in the games, that Marlene apparently knew Ellie before recent times, and had in fact brought her into the orphanage?  I wonder why they are expanding this lore; It makes me worry they are going to introduce that she was worked on by scientists to be immune or something, which would be an awful change.  Hopefully it's something else that I can't think of yet that they're setting up. Nevermind, I forgot about game stuff

 

I'm on board with tendrils being the non-biting way to get infected other that spores, but in order to explain the flour being the source of the infection spreading wordwide, that mean this fungus does still make spores and those will infect you, there just isn't going to spots where they turn the air into a cloudy fog like in the games, I guess.  But what I'm not sure I'm fully on board with yet, is the whole "tendril network" thing, where a dying infected dude's tendrils just touched some fungus on the ground briefly and instantly tons of infected stood up to come after them.  It was all cool in the moment, but I wonder how plausible this will work as the show goes on. Maybe they just won't come into many places where the fungus is all over the ground like that?  I did like how outside of the museum, the fungus had completely dried up and was dead, and basically not connected to the rest of the fungus around.  Makes you wonder if humanity is thriving in some hot, dry climates?  The game never really gets into anything outside of what Joel, Ellie, and Abby experience so I'm curious what world-building they have in mind.  The episode 1 and 2 cold opens have already been really cool in that regard.

[Yavar Moradi 1689]

Wow, and now even though today’s episode doesn’t have Bill and Frank in it, it’s still getting ratings-bombed at IMDb in advance of it even being released later today.

 

Yavar

[Jay 30970]

Anybody else wish Yavar would share his own thoughts on the show instead of constantly telling us what random losers are doing on some other website? 

[Yavar Moradi 1689]

On 31/01/2023 at 8:34 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

I agree with everything positive said about episode 3, the best of three (great!) episodes so far IMO. My wife was crying like I’ve never seen her cry when watching something.

 

On 04/02/2023 at 1:58 AM, Yavar Moradi said:

It’s a masterpiece with incredible acting performances, and since you strangely dislike Pedro and Bella in this, I guess you should know that they are only briefly in the beginning and end of the episode, not the focus of it at all.

 

17 hours ago, Jay said:

Anybody else wish Yavar would share his own thoughts on the show instead of constantly telling us what random losers are doing on some other website? 

Anyone else think it’s pretty weird for Jay to call me out like this?

 

Jay, if nobody here cared about that “other website” (the frickin’ Internet Movie Database) and didn’t appreciate my comments about it, how come I got *14* positive reactions from my first two posts mentioning it? To me that indicated some interest here about the review bombing, so it’s not at all unreasonable that I would bring up it happening for an episode that hasn’t even aired yet.

 

That said, despite your oddly directed criticism of me, I applaud and appreciate you for your much more detailed posts/reviews about each episode of this fine series so far (I’ve “liked” every one!) and I look forward to more. I’ll try to write more on the subject myself going forward.

 

Yavar

[Bespin 6820]

I give this exchange a 4 stars out of 10.

 

PS: I watched the famous third episode. A gay survivalist... okay... we're in an imaginary world where mushrooms turn humans into zombies after all... 

[Yavar Moradi 1689]

Why can’t a survivalist be gay, by nature? Shunned by society and shunning it in return.. makes perfect sense to me, whether or not fungi are turning people into zombies. (He was a gay survivalist before that event.)

 

So…where exactly is the inconsistency, to you?

 

Yavar

[Koray Savas 2188]

On 4/2/2023 at 3:25 PM, Jay said:

I'm very curious about the new bit in the show that wasn't in the games, that Marlene apparently knew Ellie before recent times, and had in fact brought her into the orphanage?  I wonder why they are expanding this lore; It makes me worry they are going to introduce that she was worked on by scientists to be immune or something, which would be an awful change.  Hopefully it's something else that I can't think of yet that they're setting up.

 

Spoiler

In the game, Marlene has known Ellie since she was born. She was friends with her mother, who made Marlene swear to protect Ellie before she died during labor. It’s why Marlene is so protective of Ellie and heartbroken when she has to make the decision to kill her for the cure.

 

[JNHFan2000 1365]

I'll start talking about Episode 5 after this banter.

 

I thought it was great. Very different from episode 3, but I felt it was a good thing.

To built the relationship between Joel & Ellie in this way was great! The jokes, the magazine, the coffee! Soo funny.

 

And the moment when they got attacked was well done. And then when Ellie saved Joel and she shot that guy in the back, paralyzing him. I thought that was worse then if she shot him and he was dead. Because now she had to watch him beg for his life, that seems worse.

But then Joel not actually comforting her for what she's done makes me wonder what this will do with Ellie in the long run. Ellie has seen Joel use violence as a tool on a few different accounts now and I think that Ellie might see it as a right way to live. I think that it's an interesting way to go.

 

And the sinkhole in the building was great! That is something that has so go wrong in future episodes. How many infected are gonna get out of there.

 

I'm not really sure what to think of Kathleen & Henry. Because we haven't had that much time with them. So I'll say more on that in the weeks to come. But I did really enjoy Melanie Lynsky.

 

 

And a heads up for everyone. Episode will be available on Friday the 10th at 9mp EST on HBOMax. It will still air on sunday on HBO, but because of the Super Bowl they decided to make it available earlier.

 

 

https://www.ign.com/articles/the-last-of-us-episode-5-will-drop-on-friday-instead-of-super-bowl-sunday

 

[Jay 30970]

Episode 5 will be available on Friday! 

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/the-last-of-us-episode-5-premiere-date-time-1235317263/

[Bespin 6820]

So I read the videogame synopsis... Now I know how the series will end... or not!

[Jay 30970]

7 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

In the game, Marlene has known Ellie since she was born. She was friends with her mother, who made Marlene swear to protect Ellie before she died during labor. It’s why Marlene is so protective of Ellie and heartbroken when she has to make the decision to kill her for the cure.

 

 

Thanks, I somehow managed to completely forgot about that!

 

I feel dumb I forgot, but I do remember now!

[Jay 30970]

13 hours ago, Bespin said:

I watched the famous third episode. A gay survivalist... okay... we're in an imaginary world where mushrooms turn humans into zombies after all... 

 

 

I think you missed the point of the episode.  The fact that Bill and Frank are both dudes isn't really the focal point or what makes the episode stand out.  It's more that it's a fantastic love story between two middle-aged people who get to overcome all odds and survived in an impossible world, ultimately dying happily together in old age.  And also, how the love of another person - the right person - changed Bill from hating humanity and purposely wanting to live alone forever, to opening up and finding purpose in sharing a life with Frank instead.  And that both of them offered unique things in their relationship the other couldn't provide on their own - Bill had the survival skills to keep them safe from raiders, Frank got Bill to get friends into their life that led to mutually beneficial exchanges.  But most importantly, Bill learning this lesson about himself gets transferred to Joel, who could very well have gone down the loner path after losing Sarah, then Tess.  He could easily abandon Ellie here and say she's on her own, and head back to Boston.  But he took Bill's life lesson to heart, and is now willing to help Ellie.

So yea, the genders of Bill and Frank aren't really as important as everything else

[Toillion 91]

We've been spoiled with these long episodes so last nights episode almost felt like a disappointment.  I really enjoyed the episode but couldn't they have added 30 more minutes of filler reading off puns?

 

[Jay 30970]

I haven't seen episode 4 yet, but I have some more thoughts about episode 3

 

As much as I liked the episode, it quietly ignores some things that I thought might have been cool to explain.

 

For example, if you really think about it, I'm not sure how plausible it is that Bill's town would be completely left alone by FEDRA and only attacked by Raiders once in the first 20 years of the outbreak.  At one point in the episode Joel tells Bill FEDRA won't be coming out there, but why does he say that?  Why wouldn't FEDRA have teams that go scouting for supplies for their QZs and come across this town?  It wasn't portrayed as being terribly far away - it was portrayed as being 10 miles + a 5 hour hike away from Boston!  Why not set it tucked away past some mountains in Western Massachusetts instead?

 

And as far as raider attacks, I feel like he turned it into a prime target for them, really.  Just by putting up the fence he's basically singing that there's something worth having inside.  But even beyond that, Frank's desire to make the neighborhood look nice is a sign that there's still people living there and that it isn't abandoned.

 

Th other thing is that they only showed us good weather times throughout the flashbacks, completely ignoring that Bill chose to make his bunker in a place with harsh winters!  What do they eat all winter long?  And more importantly, how do they deal with snow?  If a big storm comes through and they get a couple feet of snow on the ground, raiders could literally just climb up snowbanks and go over his fence!

 

I know we're not supposed to think about these things and just enjoy the story, but I couldn't help it - probably because I live in the area

 

Oh and another thing is when the raider attack happens, why is Bill in the middle of the street firing with a single-bolt rifle?  Why wouldn't he use any of his many automatic weapons for an attack such as this one?  Why else would he have them?  They could have easily fixed this by him shooting at the raiders from protective cover, but then when Frank comes out into the street, he has to leave his cover to protect Frank, and that's when he gets shot.

[Docteur Qui 1418]

Episode 4 was solid. It's difficult to follow up from last week's fireworks, but it did what it needed to do in order to get Ellie and Joel moving on their journey. Loved all the quiet moments between them as we start to see their mutual affection start to really grow. I'd forgotten about the book of puns from the game, I enjoyed its inclusion here (the cover is even identical to the one in the game!), it's a great little device for showing us more about these characters. Ellie really does feel like a kid with all her giggling at stupid jokes. I loved the moment Joel cracked and we see him smile broadly and then laugh almost hysterically.

 

The rebels/Henry/Sam stuff worked well enough; I particularly like the casting of Melanie Lynskey as the de facto rebel leader. She really sells the idea of a completely normal person pushed to the absolute limits of their humanity; I get the impression that pre-apocalypse she was just a fun auntie with a bubbly personality, right down to the way she's dressed. This episode was very much concerned with humanising the antagonists which is very welcome. Also nice to see Jeffrey Pierce (who voices Tommy in the game) get a cameo as her lieutenant, what a beard!

 

I like that they're building multiple threads of tension in Kansas City. Henry and Sam have Joel and Ellie at gunpoint, while the entire rebel city is hunting them, but uh-oh, what's that ominous crack underground mean? Continuing to love the additions they're adding to cordyceps beyond the zombie horror, like the tendrils and now this mysterious underground activity. It really adds a fresh element for people familiar with the story and piles on the tension and dread of what's to come.

 

A big drawback for me was that this was the first episode that felt like it was merely a part of a larger serialised story, without a strong internal structure. The first three episodes had very clear thematic statements which served as scaffolding for the scenes, giving each story a solid beginning, middle and end while still moving the larger story along. It gestures at a theme of "innocence lost" through the Joel and Ellie scenes (capped off with a child holding a gun at Joel's head) but for me it wasn't as effective as the last two episodes and felt like a lot of setup for the next episode.

[Koray Savas 2188]

I really enjoyed the episode and how faithful it was to the game. It’s the first time where Bella Ramsay actually felt like Ellie to me. Also disappointed at how “short” it was. 
 

Maybe this change was done to accelerate the development of their relationship, but Joel not being mad at Ellie and actually taking blame for her having to use a gun felt too humanizing. They kinda skipped over the ‘we hate each other’ part of the game, even though he calls her cargo here. 

[MaxMovieMan 73]

7 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

I really enjoyed the episode and how faithful it was to the game. It’s the first time where Bella Ramsay actually felt like Ellie to me. Also disappointed at how “short” it was. 
 

Maybe this change was done to accelerate the development of their relationship, but Joel not being mad at Ellie and actually taking blame for her having to use a gun felt too humanizing. They kinda skipped over the ‘we hate each other’ part of the game, even though he calls her cargo here. 

I agree. Was slightly disappointed in the episode and the pacing. I also really don’t like Kathleen or anything having to do with their group. I just don’t care at all.

[Thor 5793]

It was a decent episode, but I'm surprised it went into WALKING DEAD territory that quickly. The Kansas group seems like any odd group one would meet in that show, and the moral qualms that lie within. Curious to see how it develops.

[Jurassic Shark 9331]

On 02/02/2023 at 5:43 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

Wow, since my post it’s dropped even further to a 7.9 now, compared to 9.2 for the first two episodes.

 

And Ms. Marvel, one of the best Disney+ MCU shows, is sitting at a 6.2.

 

Really sad how much bigotry exists, isn’t it?

 

Yavar

 

Why do you mean people are downvoting these shows, except that they didn't like them?

 

On 06/02/2023 at 2:11 AM, Yavar Moradi said:

Anyone else think it’s pretty weird for Jay to call me out like this?

 

I'd say this kind of rudeness is consistent with his past behaviour.

[mstrox 5673]

Watched the first episode and thought it was pretty good - surprised and maybe a little disappointed with how closely it’s hewing to the game, but generally as a thing to watch it’s good.  They did great work casting the daughter, RIP.  She was terrific.

[Koray Savas 2188]

5 hours ago, Thor said:

It was a decent episode, but I'm surprised it went into WALKING DEAD territory that quickly. The Kansas group seems like any odd group one would meet in that show, and the moral qualms that lie within. Curious to see how it develops.

It went into Last Of Us territory. That group exists in the game, just without the Kathleen character. 

[Jay 30970]

The Last Of Us 1x04 Please Hold to My Hand

 

Wow, the character development for Joel, Ellie, and Joel/Ellie was off the charts awesome this week.  I loved that she has the pun book now, and every pun exchange was as good as I hoped/expected based on the game.  I love how amused Bella Ramsey played her responses to either delivering the punchlines or Joel's reactions to them or both, it was perfect.  Show Ellie is more like Game Ellie all the time!  I loved how Joel went from rolling his eyes, to admitting one was funny, to finally telling his own at the end - great stuff.

 

I also loved that he shared more about his past, it was high time we learned more about his life after Sarah and before Boston QZ and I think we learned basically all we need to now.  I'm getting more curious to learn about Ellie's past all the time now, especially with the reveal this week she's had to hurt someone before.  

 

I'm not sure it's plausible at all that any gasoline that had been sitting in a car would work at all TWENTY years later (?), but I guess the show needs some explanation for how so many are driving vehicles all the time.  I loved Ellie's disgust at the smell and look of coffee (I thought the same way at 14!) and the way Joel sipped some loudly when she commented on it    I wonder what 20 year old Chef Boyardee tastes like, or what it does to your stomach.....

 

The action sequences in Kansas City were really well done too.  The whole car crash and initial shootout in the laundromat, and subsequent sneaking around to get to high ground.  Even within these there was fascinating character development, like when after Joel kills the kid with the knife and goes over to Ellie, he doesn't comfort her at all, and doesn't even seem to realize that she might want that (he was such a good father to Sarah, why doesn't he know this now)?  My wife yelled out "hug her you idiot!"  The way she basically cried briefly and then had to get over it herself shows you how she can become just like him if she doesn't find some more nurturing companionship in her life...

 

 

What worked less well for me than all the Joel/Ellie stuff was the detailing of the Kansas City situation.  I love, LOVE Melanie Lynskey - I've enjoyed her greatly in just about everything I've seen her in (even crappy movies like Lady of the Manor), but after a bit into the episode I couldn't help but think she was miscast in this role.  Something about her whole conversation with her childhood doctor who was helping Henry & Sam, and then the way she went outside and gave orders, just didn't ring true for me at all.  For some reason I just didn't find it believable she'd end up in charge of this group.  This isn't our world, it's a crazy apocalypse world where a lot of people are going to regress into more basic drives and she just seemed too soft-spoken to have commandeered all this power.  I guess I'm not sure if it's just the way she was written or the way she's playing it, but I do think it's possible that next week's episode could get into the background of the situation more and I could completely turn around.  We'll see!

 

The sinkhole in the building was intriguing to me, I don't remember anything like it from the game (not that I remember the game crystal clearly or anything though).  The fact that it was moving makes me assume the fungus is up to something underneath that part, but what?  If there was a bunch of bodies buried there that wouldn't matter, because the fungus can only control living people, not re-animated dead people right?  Hmmm.

 

I think I liked the setup of having Kathleen's crew talk about Sam and Henry the entire episode, and have them get the one-up on Joel and Ellie at the very end (despite his broken glass floor trick, which seemed like the least smart of all his ideas so far).  I really hope we get a cool backstory for them next week!

 

Oh, and I thought Kathleen's second-in-command guy was pretty cool, and then in the after-the-show featurette thingy when they stated it was the guy who played Tommy in the game, I had a "ohhhhhhhhh, yea!" moment, because I then immediately recognized his voice (even though I hadn't the whole episode) and realized that Game Tommy kind of looks like the actor, too.  That was pretty neat!

[Jay 30970]

On 05/02/2023 at 8:11 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

that indicated some interest here about the review bombing, so it’s not at all unreasonable that I would bring up it happening for an episode that hasn’t even aired yet.

 

Yea my post was worded poorly.  What I meant was: I personally do not care in the slightest bit that bigoted losers in the world are reviewing bombing shows.  I don't care that they did it to Ms Marvel, I don't care that they're doing it to this show.  I ignore bigoted losers, I don't give them airtime by broadcasting in new places what they are doing.  But that's just me.  If people on JWFan want to give these clowns more power, I can't stop you if you all want to talk about their behavior week after week after week.  I just could not care any less about them whatsoever and would rather come into this thread to read my friends sharing their own thoughts on this great show, than being reminded against about the dumb-dumbs out there in the world doing dumb things.  But this is just Jay the fellow poster talking, not moderator Jay or anything.

 

I hope that makes sense.

 

On 05/02/2023 at 8:11 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

I applaud and appreciate you for your much more detailed posts/reviews about each episode of this fine series so far (I’ve “liked” every one!) and I look forward to more.

 

Thanks!

 

On 05/02/2023 at 8:11 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

I’ll try to write more on the subject myself going forward.

 

Nice, I hope you do!

[Thor 5793]

1 hour ago, Koray Savas said:

It went into Last Of Us territory. That group exists in the game, just without the Kathleen character. 

 

Could be. I've never played the game, and never will, and I will always comment on these episodes as they unfold before me as independent entities. Point is that it resembled several plotlines/group encounters from THE WALKING DEAD. I suppose there are only so many story ingredients one can put in a postapocalyptic story, and they're all bound to have common features. But as I said, I'm curious to see how it develops further; if and how it continues to be similar, or different.

[Jay 30970]

The original game was released in between season 3 and 4 of The Walking Dead, so was probably completely written before anyone working on it had ever seen the show.

[Thor 5793]

Could be. But the series clearly has some of the same faded colour palette as well, not only similar story elements. And some character traits. It's not necessarily a bad thing; THE WALKING DEAD was brilliant and influential, especially in the first few seasons, so a bit of inspiration can be beneficial. Obviously, the central storyline has a bit of THE ROAD in it too.

[Jay 30970]

Faded color palette?  They both take place in the USA where there's no more electricity or people tending to the landscape and plant life has began to creep back into formerly empty areas.  Of course they look the same

[Thor 5793]

5 minutes ago, Jay said:

Faded color palette?  They both take place in the USA where there's no more electricity or people tending to the landscape and plant life has began to creep back into formerly empty areas.  Of course they look the same

 

There are a number of ways to portray/photograph such circumstances, though. The aforementioned THE ROAD had a more blueish/black tone, for example. MAD MAX 2 was brighter, orange, sunswept. THE LAST MAN ON EARTH, as a comedy, was also brighter, more digital and slightly grainier. Etcetera, etcetera. Again, I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to be influenced by THE WALKING DEAD. It doesn't take anything away from the quality of the show to be influenced by a highly influental, post-apocalyptic TV show that basically redefined the way we experience zombie-type stories.

[Jay 30970]

16 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

Episode 4 was solid. It's difficult to follow up from last week's fireworks, but it did what it needed to do in order to get Ellie and Joel moving on their journey. Loved all the quiet moments between them as we start to see their mutual affection start to really grow. I'd forgotten about the book of puns from the game, I enjoyed its inclusion here (the cover is even identical to the one in the game!), it's a great little device for showing us more about these characters. Ellie really does feel like a kid with all her giggling at stupid jokes. I loved the moment Joel cracked and we see him smile broadly and then laugh almost hysterically.

 

Oh that's neat that the cover is the same as the game.  The only thing that kinda bummed me was that Ellie just all of a sudden has this book?  I wish there was a scene of her finding it.  

 

Yea her giggling reminded me of Game Ellie so much, it was great, and seeing Joel warm up to it was just great.

 

16 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

The rebels/Henry/Sam stuff worked well enough; I particularly like the casting of Melanie Lynskey as the de facto rebel leader. She really sells the idea of a completely normal person pushed to the absolute limits of their humanity; I get the impression that pre-apocalypse she was just a fun auntie with a bubbly personality, right down to the way she's dressed.

 

Interesting we'd have opposite opinions of her casting.  I did see some reluctance to be in charge in her performance, I guess maybe I'm most lamenting the lack of expostiion explaining how she got there - but maybe we'll get there next week.

 

16 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

This episode was very much concerned with humanising the antagonists which is very welcome.

 

That's true, isn't it; FEDRA has not been humanized at all yet, and of course the fungus can't be

 

16 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

 Also nice to see Jeffrey Pierce (who voices Tommy in the game) get a cameo as her lieutenant, what a beard!

 

Did you know that was him during the show, or only find out after like I did?  And yes, the beard was mighty!

 

16 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

I like that they're building multiple threads of tension in Kansas City. Henry and Sam have Joel and Ellie at gunpoint, while the entire rebel city is hunting them, but uh-oh, what's that ominous crack underground mean?

 

Yes, good point!

 

16 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

Continuing to love the additions they're adding to cordyceps beyond the zombie horror, like the tendrils and now this mysterious underground activity. It really adds a fresh element for people familiar with the story and piles on the tension and dread of what's to come.

 

Yes I like that I had no idea what that sinkhole was all about.  I loved the way both Kathleen and the lietenant guy acted in response to it - their terror was palpable!

 

16 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

A big drawback for me was that this was the first episode that felt like it was merely a part of a larger serialised story, without a strong internal structure. The first three episodes had very clear thematic statements which served as scaffolding for the scenes, giving each story a solid beginning, middle and end while still moving the larger story along. It gestures at a theme of "innocence lost" through the Joel and Ellie scenes (capped off with a child holding a gun at Joel's head) but for me it wasn't as effective as the last two episodes and felt like a lot of setup for the next episode.

 

Damn, you're totally right!  I hadn't thought of it like that.  I guess they knew Kansas City was too big to fit in one episode and had to break it somehow, so had to use a cliffhanger and leave all their setups un-paid-off until the next episode, which they hadn't done before.  I guess on future rewatches, this will all be less of an issue.  And, we're only 3 days away from Episode 5 now!

 

15 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

I really enjoyed the episode and how faithful it was to the game. It’s the first time where Bella Ramsay actually felt like Ellie to me.

 

Oh man, I agree that this was a huge step towards Bella being like Game Ellie, but I also got those vibes right away in episode 1 the way she talked back to her captors there.

 

15 hours ago, Koray Savas said:

Maybe this change was done to accelerate the development of their relationship, but Joel not being mad at Ellie and actually taking blame for her having to use a gun felt too humanizing. They kinda skipped over the ‘we hate each other’ part of the game, even though he calls her cargo here. 

 

It is a bit alarming that only halfway through the season, they've only covered 4 1/2 of the games 13 (including Left Behind) chapters...

 

 

15 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

I also really don’t like Kathleen or anything having to do with their group. I just don’t care at all.

 

 

Well I'm not sure that you're supposed to root for any of them, I think their screentime was more to world-build what society is like now

 

[Nick1Ø66 3405]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I personally do not care in the slightest bit

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I don't care that they did it

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I don't care that they're doing it

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

I just could not care any less

 

Stop mincing words Jay, how do you really feel?

[Docteur Qui 1418]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

Interesting we'd have opposite opinions of her casting.  I did see some reluctance to be in charge in her performance, I guess maybe I'm most lamenting the lack of expostiion explaining how she got there - but maybe we'll get there next week.

 

I'd agree that a lot of her character remains to be seen - why or how could someone like her end up in charge of a militant rebellion? I imagine we'll learn more next week. I think I was just struck by the casting choice which is bold and interesting, and having watched Heavenly Creatures I feel like we're in safe hands; Lynskey knows how to wrangle these kinds of character contradictions. I also have complete faith in Mazin's writing and vision, he genuinely hasn't dropped the ball once.

 

6 hours ago, Jay said:

Did you know that was him during the show, or only find out after like I did?  And yes, the beard was mighty!

 

 

I found out after listening to the official HBO podcast (which I listen to right after watching, it's really great, even if Druckmann doesn't get to say much most of the time lol).

 

 

[Jay 30970]

Man, I still need to see Heavenly Creatures!  I loved her in I Don't Feel at Home in This World Anymore, Digging for Fire, and Happy Christmas among so many other things

 

[Koray Savas 2188]

15 hours ago, Jay said:

Yes I like that I had no idea what that sinkhole was all about.  I loved the way both Kathleen and the lietenant guy acted in response to it - their terror was palpable!

My assumption is that it’s a bloater. 

[Jay 30970]

No open game spoilers allowed Koray

[Bespin 6820]

[Koray Savas 2188]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

No open game spoilers allowed Koray

It’s shown in the trailers for the show.

[Goldfinger 41]

22 hours ago, Jay said:

 

It is a bit alarming that only halfway through the season, they've only covered 4 1/2 of the games 13 (including Left Behind) chapters...

 

 

 

 

If you think about it, the Winter part of the game is a lot of action and going to place to place with very little of the "story".  I think based on the episodes left, it should work out alright and not feel rushed. I think there is some stuff that will be sacrificed, but at this point I'm willing to trust them based on how well this transition from game to show has gone. another episode or two would probably be ideal but sometimes less is more.