Jerry Goldsmith Mulan

[WilliamsStarShip2282 308]

Hey guys,

Would anyone here happen to know anything about the original score for Mulan? I've been trying to research it or find an interview but I couldn't get much. If anyone knows anything, it would be much appreciated, thanks!

 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

You mean the one NOT written by Jerry Goldsmith?

 

Did that ever get to the writing, let alone recording stage at all?

 

All I know it's that the Jerry Goldsmith is pretty darn excellent.

And there are a fair few alternates.

 

[Jay 37,271]

He means Jerry's score, with "original" used to differentiate it from the 2020 live action remake score by HGW

[Naïve Old Fart 9,490]

I can tell you - with 100% certainty - that the score for MULAN was composed by Jerry Goldsmith, and was released in 1998.

Happy to help 

[WilliamsStarShip2282 308]

He didn't write any of the songs though, right?

 

[Edmilson 7,375]

26 minutes ago, WilliamsStarShip2282 said:

He didn't write any of the songs though, right?

 

 

No, the songs were composed by Matthew Wilder and David Zippel, the same dudes that wrote the songs for Hercules on the previous year.

[mrbellamy 6,270]

Zippel was lyricist on Hercules but Alan Menken wrote the music (songs and score), not Wilder.

[publicist 4,643]

Goldsmith and the producers had one disagreement that could only be solved when Goldsmith (sighingly) stuck to the temp track (Zimmer's Beyond Rangoon, if i remember right). See below what Goldsmith offered and below what Disney demanded.

 

 

 

[WilliamsStarShip2282 308]

That is incredible. He really did have an uphill battle with temp tracks for a long time

[Pieter Boelen 740]

7 hours ago, publicist said:

Goldsmith (sighingly) stuck to the temp track (Zimmer's Beyond Rangoon, if i remember right)

Was "Haircut" temp track love? Wow!

I'm quite curious to hear the actual temp track then.

 

Goldsmith's version is seriously powerful and works wonders in that film.

Even if style-wise, it really stands out from the rest of the score.

 

I like both Goldsmith's alternates too.

That scene clearly inspires great music.

 

Would've been curious to know what the film would've been like with the original version though.

[publicist 4,643]

Probably something like this (it was a popular temp in the 90's):

 

 

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Pretty cool piece, that is.

I like the jungley feel.

 

Glad to find Goldsmith put quite a nice spin on it of his own.

He was not very good at 'aping', was he?

That Conan the Barbarian influence on Total Recall only lasted for a few seconds too, before heading off towards something completely different.

[Thor 7,457]

On 3/25/2020 at 1:04 PM, WilliamsStarShip2282 said:

Hey guys,

Would anyone here happen to know anything about the original score for Mulan? I've been trying to research it or find an interview but I couldn't get much. If anyone knows anything, it would be much appreciated, thanks!

 

Nothing much in terms of trivia or inside info. Just that I love the score; one of my favourite Goldsmiths, and that I've sung "Make a Man Out of You" (as I call it) about a million times in karaoke settings.

[Marian Schedenig 8,160]

18 hours ago, Edmilson said:

No, the songs were composed by Matthew Wilder and David Zippel, the same dudes that wrote the songs for Hercules on the previous year.

 

I always found it interesting that for concerts, Goldsmith chose to use the Suite from Mulan, where his orchestral versions of the songs take centre stage.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Can anyone tell me more about the unreleased Main Title of the score? It doesn't sound like the rest of the score, let alone like Goldsmith.

 

[bruce marshall 1,314]

Goldsmith in ' ethnic ' mode.

Eh..

 

😒

[publicist 4,643]

2 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Can anyone tell me more about the unreleased Main Title of the score? It doesn't sound like the rest of the score, let alone like Goldsmith.

 

 

That's just an arrangement of the song tune 'Honour to us all' by Wilder/Zippel.

[GerateWohl 4,322]

3 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Can anyone tell me more about the unreleased Main Title of the score? It doesn't sound like the rest of the score, let alone like Goldsmith.

 

Is that one unreleased? I have it on CD, but probably a bootleg? The CD just contains the suite and Goldsmith's score without the songs.

[publicist 4,643]

Bootleg/Oscar promo.

[blondheim 1,157]

The producers were right about Short Hair

[publicist 4,643]

37 minutes ago, blondheim said:

The producers were right about Short Hair

 

At least in being able to correctly assess their audience's taste. 

[blondheim 1,157]

His original version of that moment was a fairly standard thematic statement. If it were a variation unique to that cue, I'd probably be on the other side of the fence. As it is, the cue they pushed him to produce is more interesting

[publicist 4,643]

It's just vapid pop. You may say about the original version what you want, the end result (from a Beyond Rangoon temp) is completely at odds with the rest of the score and sounds like stuff from a Disney channel teaser. Which makes it a commercially viable choice, but it sure is not 'interesting'.

[TownerFan 4,983]

On 3/26/2020 at 10:09 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I always found it interesting that for concerts, Goldsmith chose to use the Suite from Mulan, where his orchestral versions of the songs take centre stage.

 

The orchestral suite was orchestrated by Sandy Courage, I think. You can hear him really upping those okay-ish songs into something much more refined.

3 minutes ago, publicist said:

It's just vapid pop. You may say about the original version what you want, the end result (from a Beyond Rangoon temp) is completely at odds with the rest of the score and sounds like stuff from a Disney channel teaser. Which makes it a commercially viable choice, but it sure is not 'interesting'.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if that cue was handled by someone else than JG, actually. It sounds so different that the rest of the score.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

14 minutes ago, publicist said:

It's just vapid pop. You may say about the original version what you want, the end result (from a Beyond Rangoon temp) is completely at odds with the rest of the score and sounds like stuff from a Disney channel teaser. Which makes it a commercially viable choice, but it sure is not 'interesting'.

It's somehow digestible, if you know Goldsmith's synth escapades. But it is definitely out of character, so hopefully an expansion will move the film version to the bonus section.

 

A pop "insert" that I hate much more is the love theme from Coma. I mean, what the hell...?!

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

It's just vapid pop. You may say about the original version what you want, the end result (from a Beyond Rangoon temp) is completely at odds with the rest of the score and sounds like stuff from a Disney channel teaser. Which makes it a commercially viable choice, but it sure is not 'interesting'.

Funny, the film version is (for my money) pretty horrible and sounds nothing like the rest of the score or songs, but I can't deny that I remember it more than the original version, but I guess it's because it blends seamlessly with the rest.

 

To be fair, in a "proper" musical, it's the kind of pivotal moment that would almost certainly be a song - the old adage that when the emotions become too much to express in dialogue, it's a song and when song isn't enough, dance! I quite enjoy the songs in Mulan, but they are somewhat short and kinda throwaway to some extent. It was that weird phase when Disney still included songs but only a few and they were all relatively short, like it couldn't quite commit to not doing a musical but wanted to shift away from a full on Menken effort.

[publicist 4,643]

2 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Funny, the film version is (for my money) pretty horrible and sounds nothing like the rest of the score or songs, but I can't deny that I remember it more than the original version, but I guess it's because it blends seamlessly with the rest.

 

It's no problem, since we have both versions (in fact four, since Goldsmith wrote and recorded his way into the synth-pop version). But I remember seeing this in the cinema back in 1998 - me and a friend often did this to check for unreleased music, which was usually plenty for new Goldsmith scores - and when the pop insert came we double-checked because it was so obvious that studio execs bulldozed Goldsmith on that.

[blondheim 1,157]

I think the film version does a good job at tying together the more pop elements of the songs and credits with the rest of the score. But that's just me. When I was a kid and I saw this in theatres, this was the cue that brought me to the rest of the score.

 

It's not that I don't think the original is fine, but it is just that, fine. The score has plenty of other moments that sound like that. It isn't tasteless or simple-minded to think so. The revised version with the theme counterpoint sounds unmistakably Jerry to me.

 

I love it.

[publicist 4,643]

The key point is: you were a kid, and now you are sentimentally attached, and that's not wrong or right, it just is. To me, it has the unerring ring of Horner's Titanic, which also has this anachronistic, fish-out-of-water pop sensibility. 

 

 

[blondheim 1,157]

5 minutes ago, publicist said:

The key point is: you were a kid, and now you are sentimentally attached, and that's not wrong or right, it just is. To me, it has the unerring ring of Horner's Titanic, which also has this anachronistic, fish-out-of-water pop sensibility. 

 

 

 

I don't only like it for sentimental reasons. I think it is a better fit for that movie. Also, I love Titanic

[publicist 4,643]

7 minutes ago, blondheim said:

Also, I love Titanic

 

I somehow suspected it...

[blondheim 1,157]

Just now, publicist said:

 

I somehow suspected it...

I have no shame over it

 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

3 hours ago, publicist said:

It's no problem, since we have both versions (in fact four, since Goldsmith wrote and recorded his way into the synth-pop version).

Now there are four of them? Can you clear this up?

[publicist 4,643]

11 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Now there are four of them? Can you clear this up?

 

Nothing of particular significance, just three roughly similar version's of Goldsmith's initial version ('Mulan's Decision') with different percussion meters, plus the short hair insert as the fourth alternative, but sans the opening/closing of the cue.

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

On 18/01/2021 at 3:36 PM, TownerFan said:

 

The orchestral suite was orchestrated by Sandy Courage, I think. You can hear him really upping those okay-ish songs into something much more refined.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if that cue was handled by someone else than JG, actually. It sounds so different that the rest of the score.

After listening the score since a long time, i came here to search info about the suite, and my guess was the same, that none other than alexander courage could have done it. Golsmith did not integrate a single note of the songs in the score (aside from the main title...that may have been a last time addition and probably made by courage too) , and only the very composer or a great orchestrator like courage could seamlessly integrate those songs in the suite. 

 

Its strange thst goldsmith played it in concerts, maybe it was his idea after all. 

 

My favourite goldsmith scores are the tandem formed by mulan, 13th warrior and the mummy. 

[Yavar Moradi 2,576]

4 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

My favourite goldsmith scores are the tandem formed by mulan, 13th warrior and the mummy. 

 

Whoa, that's a specific niche -- having your three favorite Goldsmith scores all come out within a year of each other must have been incredible. Here's hoping we get official licensed complete editions of the first two, sometime in the next few years. (Though since they along with Medicine Man are all Disney-owned, who knows?)

 

Yavar

[Luke Skywalker 1,792]

It's just that they came around the time that i started getting film scores (i even got gladiator!). And the kind of music that spanned those three films got me*. There is some kind of nostalgia factor there too.

 

*In fact i also like "air force one". which i think fits on the group hehe but being a modern setting it is still different.

[TownerFan 4,983]

On 18/03/2022 at 11:29 AM, Luke Skywalker said:

Its strange thst goldsmith played it in concerts, maybe it was his idea after all.

 

Jerry often had arrangers and orchestrators putting together concert suites for him (and he always credited them).

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

15 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

 

Jerry often had arrangers and orchestrators putting together concert suites for him (and he always credited them).

I'm sure if the Mulan suite were by someone else he'd have credited them somewhere. I do agree that it's strange he picked this suite to play in concerts though as it contains barely a minute (approx) of his own material. I mean, the song arrangements are superb but it's not exactly highlighting his contributions. Then again, I'm not entirely sure what track I'd have picked instead...

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I'm sure if the Mulan suite were by someone else he'd have credited them somewhere. I do agree that it's strange he picked this suite to play in concerts though as it contains barely a minute (approx) of his own material. I mean, the song arrangements are superb but it's not exactly highlighting his contributions. Then again, I'm not entirely sure what track I'd have picked instead...

 

I think it also incorporates his own 'cute girl' theme, which sounds a bit like 'First Contact'. Apart from that, sure he features the songs, it's the thing people remember from Disney movies.

[Tallguy 3,359]

I just remember how excited I got watching Wreck it Ralph 2 when they went through the Princess Montage (A Big Strong Man in Need of Rescuing) Jackman didn't play any of the songs for Mulan, he played JERRY!

[Tom Guernsey 2,277]

4 hours ago, publicist said:

 

I think it also incorporates his own 'cute girl' theme, which sounds a bit like 'First Contact'. Apart from that, sure he features the songs, it's the thing people remember from Disney movies.

I’ve heard that suite so many times I need to listen to it more carefully next time. I remember the first time I heard it, I was moving out of my university accommodation but was far more interested in hearing Jerry scoring a Disney film!

 

I would add that I I doubt anyone who only remembers the songs is going to be the core demographic for a Jerry concert! I mean those fools are missing out. But their loss! 😜

 

3 hours ago, Tallguy said:

I just remember how excited I got watching Wreck it Ralph 2 when they went through the Princess Montage (A Big Strong Man in Need of Rescuing) Jackman didn't play any of the songs for Mulan, he played JERRY!

I remember that. Nice to respect Jerry in that way. Just a shame he wasn’t around to score the live action version. I think he’d have written an absolutely brilliant job (I’ve not heard HGW’s effort given the muted reaction).

[Darth Mulder 153]

On 26/03/2020 at 7:09 AM, publicist said:

Goldsmith and the producers had one disagreement that could only be solved when Goldsmith (sighingly) stuck to the temp track (Zimmer's Beyond Rangoon, if i remember right)

 

It's true that Goldsmith was making fun of Zimmer's Gladiator? I read it somewhere a long time ago.  

[publicist 4,643]

7 hours ago, Darth Mulder said:

 

It's true that Goldsmith was making fun of Zimmer's Gladiator? I read it somewhere a long time ago.  

 

Mulan = 1998

Gladiator = 2000

 

And of course, Jerry modeled his 13th Warrior theme on 'Crimson Tide' (temp track), so he probably was mindful of the general trends.

[Darth Mulder 153]

22 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

Mulan = 1998

Gladiator = 2000

 

And of course, Jerry modeled his 13th Warrior theme on 'Crimson Tide' (temp track), so he probably was mindful of the general trends.

 

I meant it in general that he was making fun, not in conjunction with Mulan  

[chrissiddall 162]

On 18/01/2021 at 2:36 PM, TownerFan said:

 

The orchestral suite was orchestrated by Sandy Courage, I think. You can hear him really upping those okay-ish songs into something much more refined.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if that cue was handled by someone else than JG, actually. It sounds so different that the rest of the score.

It was indeed orchestrated by Alexander "Sandy" Courage, but certainly under the direction of Jerry.  If you want to check out the dots, I recently published them:

bit.ly/CSMP_MUL-001