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Classical Composer Writes Three Tracks for Star Wars Heir to the Empire


DarthDementous
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1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

At least this guy should get some credit for writing the first ever love theme of the SW saga.

 

Joke is of course funny as hell but

sadly the weakest part of this is just the

love theme. So bad. 

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Enjoyed this! Although part of "The Battle" sounds close to identical to "Get 'Em R-2" (perhaps that's intentional, of course). 

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on the topic of Thrawn's theme, I'd say it does a good job conveying the might of this new Remnant Empire while also adding a sense of sophistication and elegance to the march befitting of a character like Thrawn. he's undoubtedly the villain of Heir to the Empire so it makes sense to focus on the intimidating and militaristic dominating aspect of his character with the main theme, and then in the second part of the theme explore the more romantic and contemplative side of him.

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Williams is in the crossfire of snobs who repeat at nauseam that he is a "thief", that he doesn't modulate themes to other keys like symphonists do, doesn't write for opera (lol), and slobs, who enjoy him as much as any "epic" pop sound---and no more, and generally don't give a damn whether there are 30 staves of skilled writing sounding in their headphones, or computer-generated ambience and vague tapestry.

 

Snobs, if pressed, choose Herrmann, Morricone, or Takemitsu over Williams on his home turf, or else insist on ghetto-ing him under the label of "film music", away from "classical music", which somehow sooner has place for Stockhausen and Cage than for him.

 

Slobs think Zimmer is greater, or have nearly forgotten him.

 

He is nowhere to be found on the lists of recommended most important or influential contemporary composers, or on ranking lists of classical composers.

 

I don't know what to think.

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That’s a bit pessimistic man. He just made his debut with the VP and he’s still seen by many as (one of the) greatest film composers ever.

 

These snobs and slobs are a small amount of people in the end anyway.

 

But yeah, can somebody explain why snobs generally seem to believe that Morricone is more of a ‘real’ composer as opposed to a ‘commercial’ one like Williams? 

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10 hours ago, Fabulin said:

Williams is in the crossfire of snobs who repeat at nauseam that he is a "thief", that he doesn't modulate themes to other keys like symphonists do, doesn't write for opera (lol), and slobs, who enjoy him as much as any "epic" pop sound---and no more, and generally don't give a damn whether there are 30 staves of skilled writing sounding in their headphones, or computer-generated ambience and vague tapestry.

 

Snobs, if pressed, choose Herrmann, Morricone, or Takemitsu over Williams on his home turf, or else insist on ghetto-ing him under the label of "film music", away from "classical music", which somehow sooner has place for Stockhausen and Cage than for him.

 

Slobs think Zimmer is greater, or have nearly forgotten him.

 

He is nowhere to be found on the lists of recommended most important or influential contemporary composers, or on ranking lists of classical composers.

 

I don't know what to think.

 

He's fine.

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2 hours ago, Remco said:

That’s a bit pessimistic man. He just made his debut with the VP and he’s still seen by many as (one of the) greatest film composers ever.

 

These snobs and slobs are a small amount of people in the end anyway.

 

But yeah, can somebody explain why snobs generally seem to believe that Morricone is more of a ‘real’ composer as opposed to a ‘commercial’ one like Williams? 

 

Debut which had 1/2 of its reviews written by JWFan members, or people they know. It wasn't picked up by major classical journals or news of any sort.

 

"One of the greatest" and "arguably one of the most..." are weasel phrases that patronizingly put him merely into the front rank of film composers, as if he wasn't a poet laureate of their kind for the past 4 decades (nearly half of the history of the medium so far).

 

The use of his first name in every mention on the web shows that he is not an established name, like Mahler or Shostakovich for example. That is one of the marks of someone having a fame of "a classic".

 

He is also 90% of time tied to his Oscar record in mentions. Something very superficial as far as the standards of classical music journalism are concerned (at least in regards to composers).

 

Snobs are an influential "small amount of people", and slobs are not a small number of people at all.

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On 4/6/2020 at 1:42 PM, Fabulin said:

 

Debut which had 1/2 of its reviews written by JWFan members, or people they know. It wasn't picked up by major classical journals or news of any sort.

 

"One of the greatest" and "arguably one of the most..." are weasel phrases that patronizingly put him merely into the front rank of film composers, as if he wasn't a poet laureate of their kind for the past 4 decades (nearly half of the history of the medium so far).

 

The use of his first name in every mention on the web shows that he is not an established name, like Mahler or Shostakovich for example. That is one of the marks of someone having a fame of "a classic".

 

He is also 90% of time tied to his Oscar record in mentions. Something very superficial as far as the standards of classical music journalism are concerned (at least in regards to composers).

 

Snobs are an influential "small amount of people", and slobs are not a small number of people at all.


Sorry man, but it’d be better if you’d stop wishing Williams to be put in that ‘category’. That will never happen because he’s a totally unique figure in musical history. And he’s widely respected for that. And yes, his debut with the VP is MAJOR recognition of that, it doesn’t have to be praised by Norman Lebrecht or some other snob in order to legitimize the greatness of these two concerts. I think @KK put it wonderfully.

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Here here. I think it is profoundly stupid to give a shit about what critics say anyway, since when has a critic EVER been correct about a composer being worth while? They cling to whatever is the "sophisticated" and "elite" ideology of the day, mainly because they have no palette at all for anything, and they're usually very bitter people who found out late in life that they have no talent for music and do anything they can to act like they're "in the club". But most importantly, this is the digital age where we can basically find (almost) whatever we want online. So why does anyone give a f*** (are we allowed to swear on here?) about what some goon says? Listen for yourself and make your own damn decision.

 

And yes, JW's appearance with the VP was probably not mentioned outside of his fan base because the people who won't write about it are the same pinheads that think it's a good idea to cover the last three Mozart symphonies that have been recorded 10000000000000000000000000 times and how they found some dudes interpretation of Beethoven's 6th to be distasteful, but naturally does not explain the reasoning behind that conclusion. Besides reading an article on tooth drilling equipment, I can't think of anything less boring than a critic's (of any kind) review of something.

 

And it is true, Williams is a musician that has never existed, nor accomplished so much in one career. The people who mention the oscars are the ones who are cheap people who only care about that, so why are you even reading/ watching that? Regardless of any film accomplishment, he has written pieces (at request) for Anne-Sophie Mutter, Yo-yo Ma, Itzhak Perlman, Lang Lang, Gil Shaham, and that's just a small percentage. He's written a concerto for nearly every instrument and numerous orchestral works, with the musicians who premiere/ record them having nothing but praise for the mastery of the writing. In the orchestral world, he is currently the most performed composer on earth AND is one of the most accomplished composers in the world just for his concert music alone.

 

So...... with just that, is there seriously anyone who would be , I shall use the word, dumb enough to question his merit? Seems to me they're people who feel too uncomfortable and insecure making decisions for themselves and require others to tell them how to think and/or people with a grudge against him for whatever reason and just s*** talk for spite.

 

---------------------------------------------------------mic drop--------------------------------------------------------

On 4/6/2020 at 6:53 AM, Fabulin said:

Williams is in the crossfire of snobs who repeat at nauseam that he is a "thief", that he doesn't modulate themes to other keys like symphonists do, doesn't write for opera (lol), and slobs, who enjoy him as much as any "epic" pop sound---and no more, and generally don't give a damn whether there are 30 staves of skilled writing sounding in their headphones, or computer-generated ambience and vague tapestry.

 

 

I think whatever critic who has said he doesn't modulate is deaf. He is the king of modulation.

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11 hours ago, WilliamsStarShip2282 said:

Here here. I think it is profoundly stupid to give a shit about what critics say anyway, since when has a critic EVER been correct about a composer being worth while? They cling to whatever is the "sophisticated" and "elite" ideology of the day, mainly because they have no palette at all for anything, and they're usually very bitter people who found out late in life that they have no talent for music and do anything they can to act like they're "in the club". But most importantly, this is the digital age where we can basically find (almost) whatever we want online. So why does anyone give a f*** (are we allowed to swear on here?) about what some goon says? Listen for yourself and make your own damn decision.

 

And yes, JW's appearance with the VP was probably not mentioned outside of his fan base because the people who won't write about it are the same pinheads that think it's a good idea to cover the last three Mozart symphonies that have been recorded 10000000000000000000000000 times and how they found some dudes interpretation of Beethoven's 6th to be distasteful, but naturally does not explain the reasoning behind that conclusion. Besides reading an article on tooth drilling equipment, I can't think of anything less boring than a critic's (of any kind) review of something.

Critics can definitely be worth reading if they don’t act like PR agents for their preferred artists or mudslingers against the ones they don’t.
 

On that note, I would bet money 90% of the people who dismiss JW because he “plagiarizes” stole the argument themselves from someone else (irony at its finest). The other 10% fail to bring in the countless examples from other composers (ahem, Horner). Either way, 100% of them simply come across as sad attempts to take JW down a peg—as if he didn’t entirely earn the peg he’s on. As they say, opinions are like assholes...

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I think the whole plagiarism is just a slight to do whatever they an to put him down. The great "masters" did it all the time, but they take a concept and re-work it (at least the good ones). I was just listening to Copland's 3rd Symphony yesterday (generally a nice piece). But talk about stealing stuff, there's a passage in the second movement lifted from "Young Person's Guide for the Orchestra", plus some other things in the third movement. And same thing goes for Godfather 2 when everyone is trying to escape Cuba, it's the second tableaux of Le Sacre with the godfather theme on top (although I feel like that one was due to laziness to write something).

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