Questions to Mike Matessino

[Naïve Old Fart 9,508]

"What's your favourite cake?"

(sorry, all the good questions had gone)

[crumbs 14,305]

Also, what inspired Jim Titus to use John Alvin's unused poster art for the cover:

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,508]

That's HOOK, is it?

Personally, I'd take John Alvin, over Drew Struzan, any day.

[Jay 37,322]

John Alvin painted the map used in the teaser trailer

 

 

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,508]

Nice!

[Brundlefly 2,385]

On 4/23/2020 at 2:47 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

And ask them to use better quality jewel cases!

That should really be addressed at last!

[Ollie 1,059]

I’d ask if there was a chance of releasing a comprehensive disc of Williams works for NBC,  news, Olympics,  football. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

On 4/23/2020 at 2:54 PM, Naïve Old Fart said:

"What's your favourite cake?"

(sorry, all the good questions had gone)

 

What do you mean? That's the most important question of them all!

[Edmilson 7,398]

1 hour ago, Ollie said:

I’d ask if there was a chance of releasing a comprehensive disc of Williams works for NBC,  news, Olympics,  football. 

 

That'd be a great release, actually.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

How about: when you have tackled all the JW releases, will you do a 'SOURCE MUSIC: THE JOHN WILLIAMS SOUNDTRACK COLLECTION?'

[Edmilson 7,398]

Containing the world premiere of the Shawm cue of Prisoner of Azkaban!

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Containing the world premiere of the Shawm cue of Prisoner of Azkaban!

Plus all the alternates. They actually tried out a series of instruments, before deciding for the shawm. A bagpipe, a harmonica, an accordion and most intriguingly... a double bass flute.

[Bellosh 3,399]

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

How about: when you have tackled all the JW releases, will you do a 'SOURCE MUSIC: THE JOHN WILLIAMS SOUNDTRACK COLLECTION?'

 

I'd legit buy this in a heartbeat. 🤓

[Luke Skywalker 1,793]

12 hours ago, Bellosh said:

 

I'd legit buy this in a heartbeat. 🤓

At the rate Williams vetoes source music, in a couple of years that could be a 4cd set......

[bollemanneke 3,338]

Yeah, and another thing would be LLl's announcement: they'd have to fill the first three lines of text with studio names.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Why wasn't that source music waltz included on the Dracula expansion? Couldn't it be found, or did JW nix it?

[Brundlefly 2,385]

The question may seem inappropriate, but I would really like to know what the hell happened at the end of "Time Past / Saving Buckbeak", meaning the weird transition to the film version ending.

[Jurassic Shark 12,033]

Is that where five samples are repeated?

[bollemanneke 3,338]

18 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

The question may seem inappropriate, but I would really like to know what the hell happened at the end of "Time Past / Saving Buckbeak", meaning the weird transition to the film version ending.

There's nothing weird about that at all...

[Brundlefly 2,385]

2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

There's nothing weird about that at all...

Isn't there a bunch of milliseconds getting repeated before transitioning to the alternate? Or what is this? Is this in the performance? Sounds like a digital error to me.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

Are you sure this isn't your copy being faulty? It sounds perfect on my set.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

I don't think so. The fixed version sounds the same.

[crumbs 14,305]

7 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Are you sure this isn't your copy being faulty? It sounds perfect on my set.

 

7 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

Isn't there a bunch of milliseconds getting repeated before transitioning to the alternate?

 

It's definitely an editing mistake, not a disc error. It happens right before the insert begins, so something wonky must have happened on his timeline where it looped some of the music.

[HunterTech 987]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Shame it wasn't corrected in the fixed version, presumably Mike just didn't notice the error.

Um, fixed version?

[crumbs 14,305]

I edited the track to remove the looped section.

 

Fortunately we can just use the alternate track on disc 7 as a reference for removing it.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

Guys, we are talking about the moment the film version of the bats extension starts, right? I really do not hear the mistake.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

Guys, we are talking about the moment the film version of the bats extension starts, right? I really do not hear the mistake.

Yeah, the error is not in the bat extension though. It's just a split second before the transition.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

Yes, I noticed it too now.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

10 hours ago, crumbs said:

It's definitely an editing mistake, not a disc error. It happens right before the insert begins, so something wonky must have happened on his timeline where it looped some of the music.

But how do you accidentially loop a millisecond of a track when trying to transition from that track to another one?

2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Yes, I noticed it too now.

It might be the only mistake MM has ever done and it annoys me to no end ever since I heard it for the first time. By the way, sorry for making you aware of it.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

Don't worry, and it's not the only mistake. The flying car transition isn't good either and the Diagon Alley insert ends just a fraction of a second too late too (or rather, the recorders come in too late).

[Brundlefly 2,385]

This is different. It's not just a questionable way of transitioning from one to another track (may it be timing or volume), but a real factual error.

[Holko 9,499]

14 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

The flying car transition isn't good either

Jay did just confirm that's how Williams originally intend to do it before the picture was cut down and they apparently recorded a tiny unleaked and unreleased insert to patch it up. Not saying it's good, and not even completely saying it was the best decision to replicate that.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

That makes no sense at all. Anyone can make the correct edit using the sessions. You just need to make sure cue 1 ends and cue 2 starts at the exact same time. It has nothing to do with an unrelease insert, it's a bad transition that the movie doesn't have at all and it uses the same material.

[Holko 9,499]

39 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

That makes no sense at all. Anyone can make the correct edit using the sessions. You just need to make sure cue 1 ends and cue 2 starts at the exact same time. It has nothing to do with an unrelease insert, it's a bad transition that the movie doesn't have at all and it uses the same material.

 

 

On 4/23/2020 at 8:17 PM, Jay said:

No, that's not the case.  As originally intended, the film had that bit with Big Ben in it, and the original Flying Car composition started off with that scene.  So, Mike edited the full Train Sation cue into the full Flying Car cue, as would have been the intention for the cut of the film Williams wrote the music to.  If it sounds like a weird transition, that's as-composed, not an editing problem.

 

Later, the Big Ben scene was cut out of the film, and the beginning of the Flying Car cue with it, so now the resulting new start of the cue began on a different key.  So, an extremely short insert was recorded, which connected the end of The Train Station to the new start of Flying Car, and that tiny insert is heard in the film, but unreleased on any album.  If we had been able to make HP2 and HP3 three-disc sets like HP1, there would have been room to include a "The Train Station / The Flying Car (Film Edit)" track which used that insert and replicated that edit, but alas, it was not to be. 

 

 

On 4/23/2020 at 8:24 PM, Jay said:

Perhaps the awkward transition was another reason to record an insert to patch over things

 

I forget now if we discussed presenting Train Station and Flying Car as separate tracks instead of combining them.  I know he worked on that transition several times, it was a tough spot to tackle

Though it's not actually the Big Ben, but St Pancras Renaissance Hotel which was used as the external for King's Cross because it looked cooler and nobody outside London would notice or something.

 

Also if you compare the theatrical and extended:

 

It's not actually the clock scene causing trouble at all, that's a little bit later, both versions have the different key insert and a shorter Flying Car intro for the takeoff.

[bollemanneke 3,338]

But I still don't get it.

 

I think I know what Jay means when he refers to the insert with a different key. It's the ominous woodwind notes, right? But that's not what I have an issue with. I mean that the flying car starts just a little too late. The missing insert isn't the problem.

 

And if they did find the missing insert, why not go for the film edit on this set? Why stick with the 'as intended' version which just sounds... off?

[crumbs 14,305]

The transition does sound pretty jarring on the LLL. But it's not hard to split the track in two using the sessions, so... eh.

 

I understand the musical reasoning that the first note of the Flying Car should have been synced with the final note of The Train Station though. It's just musically abrubt to have such a weird tonal change without that satisfying transition between cues; it actually feels like an overdub or sweetener is missing.

[Holko 9,499]

The LLL followed by my attempt at making it more palatable.

 

 

[bollemanneke 3,338]

3 minutes ago, Holko said:

The LLL followed by my attempt at making it more palatable.

 

 

That's what I mean! The way you did it is the way it should have been done on the set. I don't understand why one wouldn't NOT do it this way. Your way makes perfect sense, musically speaking.

[crumbs 14,305]

Yes, that sounds much better with The Flying Car taking precedence in the mix over the tail end of The Train Station.

[Smaug The Iron 510]

1 hour ago, Holko said:

The LLL followed by my attempt at making it more palatable.

 

 

I don't here a difference?

[Richard Penna 3,676]

It's subtle but it's there. If you maintain the 'incoming' rhythm of The Flying Car and go backwards, there's a bigger gap between the last hit in the previous cue than there should be.

 

And I agree with the above - it doesn't have anything to do with the film insert. Mike has put the two cues together, as originally recorded, and not quite lined up the hit at the end of the train station with the beginning of the flying car, so it sounds a little strange.

 

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

And if they did find the missing insert, why not go for the film edit on this set? Why stick with the 'as intended' version which just sounds... off?

 

Well there's nothing wrong with the intended version, if you line everything up.

 

The problem is that you've got a film version that's dealing with different keys and an insert, and missing a bit of music, but an 'original' version that sounds good (better IMO) but doesn't match the film. Different people will want different things.

[Arpy 4,145]

At the end of the day you can't please everyone, least of all film score fans.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

It's virtually impossible to please all film score fans, unless the music in the film is 100% exactly how it was recorded.

 

No two people on this forum would agree on how to compile the HP set.

[crumbs 14,305]

Plus everyone has different opinions when it comes to overlapping cues. The Concord Temple of Doom frustrated some because it presented all the cues individually... but I don't think anyone wants to return to those gigantic Return of the Jedi SE tracks either. It's a balancing act.

 

I don't mind his newer approach of combining cues into the same track but allowing space between them, so we have clean outros/intros for most cues but avoid having a stupid number of tracks (see US Marshals and all the <1 minute tracks).

[Brundlefly 2,385]

@Holko@bollemanneke@crumbs

 

I'm sorry to say that, but the LLL version starts at the exact right spot, it is just drowned by the trumpets of the former cue. The Flying Car is intentionally a bit slower at the beginning and then gradually gets to the tempo it keeps until the end. That is all happening within the first few seconds but it is intended that way. The cue is not coming in too late, the orchestra is just pulling itself together, like an old motor having a hard time to get started. That is what makes you feel a delay.

[crumbs 14,305]

3 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

The cue is not coming in too late, the orchestra is just pulling itself together, like an old motor having a hard time to get started. That is what makes you feel a delay.

 

Personally the timing is less of an issue, it's more that something is off with the crossfade/mixing of the two cues. The tailing off of the first cue seems to takes precedence in the mix over the start of the second cue, when it should be the other way around.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

29 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Plus everyone has different opinions when it comes to overlapping cues. The Concord Temple of Doom frustrated some because it presented all the cues individually... but I don't think anyone wants to return to those gigantic Return of the Jedi SE tracks either. It's a balancing act.

That's what I keep saying all the time. In the end it is important to make it sound musically correct. Ignore the fans who want clean endings of every single cue. There is no rational point to it except OCD. There is a substantial amount of people who just want to have a good time and listen to the music they didn't get on the OST in the musically most enjoyable and coherent way possible. MM does it right.

 

29 minutes ago, crumbs said:

I don't mind his newer approach of combining cues into the same track but allowing space between them, so we have clean outros/intros for most cues but avoid having a stupid number of tracks (see US Marshals and all the <1 minute tracks).

As for U.S. Marshals, the sloppily stacked cues aren't the only issue with this set. I recommend everyone not to buy this piece of carelessness.

 

5 minutes ago, crumbs said:

The tailing off of the first cue seems to takes precedence in the mix over the start of the second cue, when it should be the other way around.

You think so? But what would a quick fade-out of the first cue sound like? I mean, I would have preferred The Flying Car as standalone track, but the way MM did it sounds natural to me.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

59 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

@Holko@bollemanneke@crumbs

 

I'm sorry to say that, but the LLL version starts at the exact right spot, it is just drowned by the trumpets of the former cue. The Flying Car is intentionally a bit slower at the beginning and then gradually gets to the tempo it keeps until the end. That is all happening within the first few seconds but it is intended that way. The cue is not coming in too late, the orchestra is just pulling itself together, like an old motor having a hard time to get started. That is what makes you feel a delay.

 

I just lined up the two cues in my editor, and if you start Flying Car right on the last hit of Train Station, the delay present in LLL's version isn't there. I shifted Flying Car very slightly to the right, and it sounds like LLL's.

 

It's a very tiny mistake, but I believe it is there.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

18 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I just lined up the two cues in my editor, and if you start Flying Car right on the last hit of Train Station, the delay present in LLL's version isn't there.

Flying Car does start exactly on the last hit of Train Station on the LLL set. It is not easily audible, but the timing is correct.

[Holko 9,499]

If you don't line the very first note you hear, the very second the music starts, up to the final blast, but instead line the first beat up to the final blast (as I think it should be, that is how you get true musical continuity and flow, the final note has to work as if it was part of the next cue already), it sounds much closer to mine than the LLL.

 

Illustration: I took Train Station's volume way down to better show what lines up with what, where and how Car begins:

matched to LLL first, then beat lineup that feels natural