THE RIVER expanded and remastered by Mike Matessino now available from Intrada Records

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Me too!  Hopefully it's here by Saturday.

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

Same here!

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

My copy is set to arrive on Monday per USPS site, can't wait!  It is pretty cool that this and Monsignor are presented similarly filled to the brim in 1 CD.  Monsignor was a really nice listening experience, hope to have the same result with The River.

 

@Jay What circumstances led to the decision to put the OST on the disc first before the score presentation vs what we have seen in the past with 2 or 3 disc sets with Rosewood, Superman TM, etc.?

[Jay 37,249]

I don't know.

[Faleel 5,326]

Probably the length, and consideration of cost for the consumer

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

I guess I should have re-worded it.  My question is why does the OST come first on the disc vs the score presentation first then the OST?

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

1 hour ago, ATXHusker said:

My question is why does the OST come first on the disc vs the score presentation first then the OST?

 

One reason I could imagine is that doing it the other way round would place the end credits and the album opener back to back - and they're the same cue.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

35 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

One reason I could imagine is that doing it the other way round would place the end credits and the album opener back to back - and they're the same cue.

 

Not if they put the bonus track in between!

 

In general, I'm a fan of putting the composer's original soundtrack presentation first.  I think I will prefer the full score presentation (I expounded on my issues with the OST earlier in the thread) so I'd be annoyed if actually playing the CD was my main way of listening to the score (skipping to track 12 every time I put it in), but since I'll only ever listen to this on my computer/phone it's no problem.

[publicist 4,643]

Since years I haven't really listened to an albums the whole way through, so why bother. But I get the feeling that Williams' old album was perfect the way it was constructed. The rest just looks like shorter cues.

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

8 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

In general, I'm a fan of putting the composer's original soundtrack presentation first.  I think I will prefer the full score presentation (I expounded on my issues with the OST earlier in the thread) so I'd be annoyed if actually playing the CD was my main way of listening to the score (skipping to track 12 every time I put it in), but since I'll only ever listen to this on my computer/phone it's no problem.

 

In general, I'm not a fan of putting the end credits at the beginning of the score. It can make sense for very condensed albums that are missing a lot of binding material, or for less coherent scores that don't have much binding material to begin with. We'll see how The River compares in chronological order. I never knew that the first track on the album was actually the end credits, but since I've learned that I'm less surprised by how much its pop style differs from the rest of the score.

[1977 1,743]

Personally I don't care as long as they are both on there. I seldom listen to music as sequenced on a disc anyway.

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

Well looky what just showed up in the mailbox!  Was originally to get here Monday, super fast shipping!  Great job by Intrada!  This came in a box with bubble wrap and packing peanuts and there's not a scratch on her.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Nice.  I think mine's coming tomorrow.

[crocodile 7,973]

Mine shipped just now.

 

Karol

[Jay 37,249]

WOW that was fast!  Awesome!

[Amer 2,078]

Mine just shipped for NY.

[lairdo 726]

Mine is in my mailbox! Will my meetings ever end?

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Just say your cat is dying.

[Dr. Rick 1,155]

you mean drowning in a river

[lairdo 726]

Sorry no cat, but I have the disc in my hands! Moments away from enjoying it (until the next meeting starts anyway) - but not complaining that I can work from home. 

[lairdo 726]

By the way, as always, entertaining and informative liner notes from Mike. Not super long, but a nice combination of the history of the film and context + tech notes on the recording sessions and how the release was mastered.

 

I haven't listened fully through yet, so cannot say I have any overall reactions yet (other than really enjoying it). Interesting how far right the guitar is in some tracks, and I think I get a bit of a Georges Delerue feel for some reason on some tracks. (Which is not a bad thing.) But overall just lovely Williams Americana sounding wonderful on my system.

 

 

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

Ordered this directly from Intrada, along with Take Her, She's Mine and (finally) Air Force One and U.S. Marshals. Considered ordering from Musicbox (total price would be slightly more than Intrada if Intrada gets through without customs fees, and slightly less if it doesn't), but U.S. Marshals was down to a few in stock copies, and those sold out before I had decided where to order. I figure Intrada will probably get it back in stock faster, but with that on backorder and Corona, I expect it'll be a while before I'll actually have these in my hands.

[Luke Skywalker 1,791]

Mine shipped. Will It arrive? Who knows....

 

 

Still waiting for far & Away..

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Just got mine!  Ripping it to my hard drive as I type  

[Bespin 8,472]

I can’t order it now, as I want to order it with the Disaster boxset. I think they’ll reprint it only by june or july :-(

 

On 5/8/2020 at 2:30 PM, ATXHusker said:

 

 

Nice original cover art!

 

On 5/5/2020 at 7:28 AM, Jay said:

Yea it's a completely different recording. 6 of the OST tracks were recorded on a special day just for album recordings, like ET. 

 

I don’t want to do the maths, but in my disco like for E.T., do I have to mention that the album contains « mainly » concert suites recorded specially for the album?

[GlastoEls 556]

On 5/9/2020 at 2:01 AM, Marian Schedenig said:

Ordered this directly from Intrada, along with Take Her, She's Mine and (finally) Air Force One and U.S. Marshals. Considered ordering from Musicbox (total price would be slightly more than Intrada if Intrada gets through without customs fees, and slightly less if it doesn't), but U.S. Marshals was down to a few in stock copies, and those sold out before I had decided where to order. I figure Intrada will probably get it back in stock faster, but with that on backorder and Corona, I expect it'll be a while before I'll actually have these in my hands.

Yeah similar; I have Far & Away (and the back in stock Home Alone) from LLL somewhere over the Atlantic for the last month, and no doubt the same for The River.  So they’ll be great summer treats for us!

[King Mark 3,624]

One small annoyance. Why are the album tracks first then the film score? That annoyed me on Monsignor too especially since the film score has better sound

[Bespin 8,472]

21 minutes ago, King Mark said:

One small annoyance. Why are the album tracks first then the film score? That annoyed me on Monsignor too especially since the film score has better sound

 

Its in chronological release date order!

[King Mark 3,624]

yeah but every other expanded release has the album at the end or disk 2

[Bespin 8,472]

Stop that now.

[King Mark 3,624]

The Ancestral Home sounds more like a concert piece than a film cue.  I'm reminded of Hymn to New England for some reason

[Marian Schedenig 8,153]

41 minutes ago, King Mark said:

One small annoyance. Why are the album tracks first then the film score? That annoyed me on Monsignor too especially since the film score has better sound

 

18 minutes ago, King Mark said:

yeah but every other expanded release has the album at the end or disk 2

 

On 5/7/2020 at 6:06 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

One reason I could imagine is that doing it the other way round would place the end credits and the album opener back to back - and they're the same cue.

 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

52 minutes ago, King Mark said:

One small annoyance. Why are the album tracks first then the film score? That annoyed me on Monsignor too especially since the film score has better sound

Why does it matter?

29 minutes ago, King Mark said:

yeah but every other expanded release has the album at the end or disk 2

Inchon, Monsignor, Chinatown.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Because of OCD.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

You mean the thing that makes you willing to have every second of a score in chronological order and separate tracks although it is shitty to listen to?

[The Five Tones 302]

If it really mattered, I agree, most expansions put the OST presentation at the back, kind of like singles, remixes and live versions on pop expansions... in the order versions were created. But, does it really matter? Isn't everyone ripping their collection to iTunes or another player anyway. These releases always end up on several lists for me: JW master playlist, JW (by decade), LLL as issued, JWFan C&C, iPhone list, etc. and tracks are variously reordered, omitted, adjacent to different programs depending.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

I just put it in my CD player.

[The Five Tones 302]

Can't you just enter... track 12... play?

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

That's exactly what I'd do if I didn't want to listen to the OST. So simple, so elegant.

[The Five Tones 302]

Sure. But now we all need to know MM's or someone else's rationale for the ordering... JWFan won't rest until the reason is known, lol

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

Unlike most of JWFan, he just likes to be unpredictable.

[lairdo 726]

24 minutes ago, The Five Tones said:

Sure. But now we all need to know MM's or someone else's rationale for the ordering... JWFan won't rest until the reason is known, lol

 

While I agree that order generally does not ultimately change the end experience since most of us (all?) will end up digitizing the release and therefore can have any and every combination of tracks we desire through playlists, we can think about possible reasons in categories.

 

1. Legal/Licensing

In this case, it might be that the ability for Intrada, La-La Land or any other label to release the expanded edition is because they have licensed the original album (or even had it previously) and are expanding this. As such, the license holders might require the album tracks to be sequenced first

 

2. Space/Logical placement

When the releases span more than one disc, this might play a factor as to where the tracks go so as to best utilize the disc layout. For example, in the case of Saving Private Ryan and Schindler's List, I am not sure another arrangement would have made much sense other than to sequence the OST first and the few extra tracks second.

 

3. Mike's preference

Even if we all rip the discs and combine the tracks as we see fit, I suspect Mike might have a preferred listening order. Or it might be that Mike (or the publisher) thinks the marketability of the disc(s) is better with the album first or last or in between.

 

4. The Maestro's preference

This one is probably a meta reason as I believe that John Williams, or at least his team, sign off on every aspect of these releases. Given that JW felt the materials for The River would allow for and be interesting as an album with its own arrangements, we can suppose that he likes the original presentation. And as such, this is what he feels is the best way to enjoy the themes and treatment of the music. Hence, put it first if he wants it. There may be other instances where he is less committed to that, and then the original album gets placed based on someone else's desire. (As a side note, recall that Superman's source music was relegated to the Superman II/III La-La Land release because presumably he or his team wanted only his music on that. In that release, while discs 1 and 2 focused on the score and alternates, the remastered OST had its own disc regardless of numbering.)

 

 

I think another, separate question is "why" did The River originally get this treatment of an extra recording day, and the work done to compose, orchestrate and ready the parts for recording them? We know from the linear notes that Universal was banking of the film being a big success: Mark Rydell coming off On Golden Pond, Sissy Spacek off of Coal Miner's Daughter, topical story, Mel Gibson's first US movie, and John Williams in the glow of successes (films and music releases) such as ET, Raiders, Superman, Star Wars and Jaws + his very visible Boston Pops appointment and broadcasts + his triumph at the LA Olympics. Were these factors enough to create what amounts to a special version of the score? Did JW push for it because of what it represented to him and showed his abilities in a different light than the summer blockbusters? Interestingly, as far as I can determine, The River's music only shows up in 3 groups of releases: 1. The OST/Expanded release; 2. A series of MCA Record compilations of JW's music for MCA/Universal that were released in various countries; and, 3. the 4-disc collection from Silva Screen and Silva's variants of their various re-recordings (such as a Mel Gibson's movie music).

 

I do not think JW ever recorded this with the Boston Pops. Did he play it at a concert though? I find trying to search the BSO/BPO old programs an exasperating experience, so I have not tried to find out.

 

Lastly, all this aside, I found listening to the whole album in sequence yesterday completely enjoyable. Both OST and score presentations are rewarding.

 

 

 

 

[King Mark 3,624]

3 minutes ago, lairdo said:

 

I think another, separate question is "why" did The River originally get this treatment of an extra recording day, and the work done to compose, orchestrate and ready the parts for recording them? We know from the linear notes that Universal was banking of the film being a big success: Mark Rydell coming off On Golden Pond, Sissy Spacek off of Coal Miner's Daughter, topical story, Mel Gibson's first US movie, and John Williams in the glow of successes (films and music releases) such as ET, Raiders, Superman, Star Wars and Jaws + his very visible Boston Pops appointment and broadcasts + his triumph at the LA Olympics. Were these factors enough to create what amounts to a special version of the score? Did JW push for it because of what it represented to him and showed his abilities in a different light than the summer blockbusters? Interestingly, as far as I can determine, The River's music only shows up in 3 groups of releases: 1. The OST/Expanded release; 2. A series of MCA Record compilations of JW's music for MCA/Universal that were released in various countries; and, 3. the 4-disc collection from Silva Screen and Silva's variants of their various re-recordings (such as a Mel Gibson's movie music).

 There's a lot of scores he recorded with a special version for the OST

Earthquake

Jaws

The Fury

Dracula

Monsignor

E.T. 

The River

 

[Holko 9,491]

Skipped through the OST... ehh

Listened through the OST... well just not my thing I guess.

Listened to the Intrada samples... huh.

Listened to the Intrada, both programs... you know, this thing might be really growing on me!

[Disco Stu 15,495]

6 minutes ago, Holko said:

Skipped through the OST... ehh

Listened through the OST... well just not my thing I guess.

Listened to the Intrada samples... huh.

Listened to the Intrada, both programs... you know, this thing might be really growing on me!

 
Stockholm Syndrome!

 

[Holko 9,491]

Could be!

[_deleted_ 203]

https://www.amazon.com/River-Expanded-John-Williams/dp/B0882NX36H/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=THE+RIVER+(EXPANDED)&qid=1589175958&sr=8-3

 

Are they selling the real product? I want to order this from Amazon. Thanks!

[Ricard 2,242]

Yes, it's the real product but you can't order it yet.

[Jurassic Shark 12,008]

5 hours ago, A Ghost From Highwood said:

https://www.amazon.com/River-Expanded-John-Williams/dp/B0882NX36H/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=THE+RIVER+(EXPANDED)&qid=1589175958&sr=8-3

 

Are they selling the real product? I want to order this from Amazon. Thanks!

 

It's probably cheaper to order directly from the label.

[_deleted_ 203]

2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

It's probably cheaper to order directly from the label.

Thanks! Maybe i'm just paranoid but maybe Amazon is safer for everyone involved in the delivery process?