bollemanneke 3,338 Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 Juliet (on piano): BAM BAM BAM BAM!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,593 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Thor said: Yeah, I know people rave about PENNY DREADFUL, but I just don't get it. It's merely OK, and not really the Korzeniowski I "signed up for". I had the opposite reaction. Already a fan of Korzeniowski, when I watched the first season of Penny Dreadful, I was swept away by his music — to me all very much in his established sweeping post-minimalist romantic style (the cue I posted illustrates that quite thoroughly I think, and it was also very powerful in the show), albeit dark (*at times*) ...frankly I consider it some of his best work, and perhaps the best TV scoring of the past decade. It is FAR superior to something like Copernicus’ Star, which has moments/cues of greatness that are pure Korzeniowski, but also suffers greatly from some obvious temp-tracking (Pirates of the Caribbean being the most egregious). 5 hours ago, Thor said: The ultimate sign to me, however, that Korzeniowski has been swallowed by more generic tropes, is the Netflix series LOCKE & KEY. Again, people rave about it, but it's just anonymous, insistant, at times even bombastic genre tropes without any trace whatsoever of his usual skill and style. So yeah.....ROMEO & JULIET 7 years ago was the last time he fired on all cylinders, but I have hope he'll return to that level again soon. He just needs the right director and project to work with. Thor, writing this makes me question how carefully you really even listened to the three Penny Dreadful albums (I’ll already assume you didn’t have any interest in assessing his score in show context, where IMO it shines even more). Using Locke & Key as your “ultimate sign” that “Korzeniowski has been swallowed by more generic tropes” and is “without any trace whatsoever of his usual skill and style”... well, Thor, maybe that’s because Locke & Key was entirely composed by a composer named Torin Barrowdale? That’s uncharacteristically sloppy of you, to pass such dismissive judgement on Korzeniowski for a score he had no involvement in whatsoever. I honestly have no idea how you would make that mistake, which apparently has been quite the significant influence on your opinion of Korzeniowski’s post-R&J output. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Korzeniowski was hired to score the pilot of Locke and Key when it was a Hulu show; When they dropped it and Netflix acquired it, Torin Borrowdale scored the entire season (including the redone pilot) https://filmmusicreporter.com/2018/01/23/abel-korzeniowski-to-score-hulus-locke-key/ https://filmmusicreporter.com/2019/08/30/torin-borrowdale-to-score-netflixs-locke-key/ Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 34 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: Thor, writing this makes me question how carefully you really even listened to the three Penny Dreadful albums (I’ll already assume you didn’t have any interest in assessing his score in show context, where IMO it shines even more). Using Locke & Key as your “ultimate sign” that “Korzeniowski has been swallowed by more generic tropes” and is “without any trace whatsoever of his usual skill and style”... Yes, I've seen all the episodes. Decent show, and decent music. Sorry about the confusion regarding LOCKE & KEY. As Jay said, he was the first composer, and I remember being kinda excited about the news at the time. And then when I sampled the score later on (well knowing it was NOT Korzeniowski), I didn't care for it. Somehow, these two elements got mixed up in my mind, all these months later. TSMefford and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,593 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Is it possible to hear Korzeniowski’s work anywhere currently? Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,323 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Who knows if it was even recorded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 You know, I haven't heard any Horner in some time, so I found myself having a pleasant time with the Horner highlight reel that this album was. I can't quite picture what any of this has do with Romeo and Juliet. But hey, I never really expected the masterpiece that most others did. 6 hours ago, publicist said: R&J by Korzeniowski is also rather superficial and second-hand (Desplat, Nyman etc.), though it's admittedly a much more rounded listen than Horner's somewhat schizophrenic approach. This. I find myself actually having a hard time going back to the Korzeniowski score because of how worn out that formula has become for me. But I'll concede it has an appealing sound that probably worked well a contemporary rendition of R&J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,398 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 6 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Is that a line from the film? I can't remember. Unfortunately yeah, it is. It's a hilariously bad line, but Horner somewhat fell in love with it and decided to name one of the cues with that. Which is a shame, The Perfect Storm is a great score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Someone at FSM posted a custom cover for this over here: https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=138846&forumID=1&archive=0&pageID=13&r=913#bottom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 32 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said: Someone at FSM posted a custom cover for this over here: https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=138846&forumID=1&archive=0&pageID=13&r=913#bottom A bit on the kitchy side, perhaps, but nice to have a cover that is different from the Korzeniowski one. Now to wait for someone to create track titles! bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foundling 11 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 Just discovered this and thought I'd see on here for people's opinion but I kind of knew what the consensus would be. I'm an occasional viewer of this forum rather than a poster. I mean I am enjoying it. Does anyone know if self-plagiarism was ever put to Horner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,338 Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share Posted May 19, 2020 Yeah, I was thinking something similar yesterday: would it have been legally possible for two studios to sue each other because Horner self-plagiarised? Or rather, is it legally okay for Horner to self-plagiarise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Didn't Baz Lurrmann already make this movie? bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 I think that was the one with Leo, which also sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,400 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 I really liked Romeo + Juliet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Sítrónu 494 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 10 hours ago, bollemanneke said: Yeah, I was thinking something similar yesterday: would it have been legally possible for two studios to sue each other because Horner self-plagiarised? Or rather, is it legally okay for Horner to self-plagiarise? I think that actually happened once, he got sued, but I will have to google it another time. Here he talks about the problem of using his existing music and the studios: bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Bellosh said: I really liked Romeo + Juliet! Yes, superb film. And iconic for a whole generation. And a wonderful Armstrong score. Bellosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,338 Posted May 20, 2020 Author Share Posted May 20, 2020 35 minutes ago, lemoncurd said: I think that actually happened once, he got sued, but I will have to google it another time. Here he talks about the problem of using his existing music and the studios: Ooh, this is interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 I remember he was asked this question many years ago, and he answered something in the vein that he has a hard time 'remembering' his own music or something to that effect. Maybe someone has the full quote. One of the things I regret now, is that I didn't ask him about the danger motif when I had the chance. It was written down ON MY BLOCK, but I never got around to it in my 13-minute interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 57 minutes ago, lemoncurd said: I think that actually happened once, he got sued, but I will have to google it another time. Here he talks about the problem of using his existing music and the studios: Still, he got away with it most of the times. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 15 minutes ago, Thor said: I remember he was asked this question many years ago, and he answered something in the vein that he has a hard time 'remembering' his own music or something to that effect. Maybe someone has the full quote. One of the things I regret now, is that I didn't ask him about the danger motif when I had the chance. It was written down ON MY BLOCK, but I never got around to it in my 13-minute interview. He did answer all that quite thoroughly here, i. e. the Willow interview: http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/category/articles-english/interviews-articles/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 4 minutes ago, publicist said: He did answer all that quite thoroughly here, i. e. the Willow interview: http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/category/articles-english/interviews-articles/ Hmm, I can't see a Willow interview. Do you mean the interview with Ron Howard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/willow-between-quotes/ Thor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 This was unpleasant to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 9 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: This was unpleasant to read. Really? I found it a decent analysis, although rather skimpy in terms of actual Horner quotes on the matter. The closest is the one that comes first in the article. I love WILLOW dearly, btw. Quotes and all; this never bothered me much with Horner in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Just now, Thor said: Really? I found it a decent analysis, although rather skimpy in terms of actual Horner quotes on the matter. The closest is the one that comes first in the article. I was referring to the language, not the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Ah, OK. I've read far worse from people who don't have English as their first language, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Bien sûr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 968 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Listening to it now. I'm not so sure that it'll get many repeat visits but it is enjoyable. Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounty95 558 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Is there anyone who has bothered to figure out the complete lyrics of the song in Track 13? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,833 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I swear in every interview I’ve read or video of JH, he always sounds like he’s got a massive chip on his shoulder. Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Jon Broxton goes into great detail on the situation here: https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=5299&expand=2 Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crocodile 7,990 Posted May 21, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, MikeH said: Jon Broxton goes into great detail on the situation here: https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=5299&expand=2 I'll paste in the complete text for convenience if that's ok with you: Quote There's a bit more detail to this but, basically, Horner got screwed by the producers. Korzeniowski told me this story first hand, when I went to his house to give him his IFMCA Awards, and he has since spoken about this in public, so I think I'm fine in revealing this now. When he first told me this, I was 'sworn to secrecy' for a while, which is why I didn't reveal all this at the time. So, the director of the film, Carlo Carlei, loved Horner's score. He got exactly what he wanted from Horner, the score was recorded and mixed, everything was going well... and then there was a pre-release test-screening, and of course the inevitable happened. The film was poorly received, and the score was criticized by the audience. Now, the producers of the film, who are associated with Swarovski (the famous crystal company) were 'new to the game', and panicked following the test screening. They told the director they wanted the score to be changed, but the director refused, leading to them having a big argument, and refusing to work together. Against the director's wishes, the producers went out and commissioned a new score from Korzeniowski, but here's the kicker: they told Korzeniowski that Horner's score had been rejected (when it hadn't yet), and they did NOT tell Horner that Korzeniowski had been hired to replace him. Eventually, there was two versions of the film, one with Horner's score, and one with Korzeniowski's score, and the director/producers/distributor were still fighting between themselves about which one to release. The end result was that they hired a media analytics company and arranged *another* screening with two adjacent cinemas: they showed the film with Horner's score to one audience, and showed the film with Korzeniowski's score to another audience, simultaneously, and made the two audiences answer a load of questions about the music, how it made them feel about certain aspects of the story, how it made them relate to certain characters, etc. Meanwhile, Horner and Korzeniowski - who by now had both been told the *real* situation - were sitting around waiting to hear the results. Once the screenings were over the media analytics company went away and did a whole load of complicated math, statistics and whatnot, and it came back that the audience had responded more favorably to the version of the film with Korzeniowski's score, so his version was the one that was released. Korzeniowski actually showed me a copy of the media analytics company's report, which was this big thick binder full of graphs and pie charts and tables with numbers in them. As far as I am aware, this is the first time this sort of thing has happened, where the result of a simultaneous test screening has actually chosen which score a film would have, and I think it sets a poor precedent - it's like American Idol: Film Score Edition - you choose the winner! Needless to say, no-one was happy. The director didn't get the score he wanted, Horner has his score rejected, the producers ended up with a flop movie anyway, and Korzeniowski was put in the terrible position where he was basically misled by his employers, and asked to a write a replacement score for a film which hasn't had its first score rejected yet. He told me that, had he known the real situation, he would have refused the assignment out of respect for Horner, at least until the producer and director had actually figured out what the hell they were doing. Karol bollemanneke, TheUlyssesian, Smeltington and 5 others 4 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,398 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 My gosh, what a mess. In a way, what happened to Horner was almost the exact same thing that hapenned with Gabriel Yared years ago: poor test screenings and an unfavorable response from the audience about the music, leading to idiotic film producers demanding a replacement score. Karma is really a bitch, huh. Somewhere, Gabriel Yared is probably like this: Henry Sítrónu and TSMefford 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 He got Troy-d alright. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayesian 1,359 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I'd love to see that analytics report. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Sítrónu 494 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 On 5/19/2020 at 8:47 PM, Thor said: A bit on the kitchy side, perhaps, but nice to have a cover that is different from the Korzeniowski one. Now to wait for someone to create track titles! I created a fake track list, just to give me some structure. 1. Prologue 2. Introduction 3. Juliet 4. Romeo 5. Montagues and Capulets 6. Love Theme 7. Interlude 8. Change of Scenes 9. Time 10. Decisions 11. Romeo and Juliet 12. Finale 13. Our Love Is Like The Wind 14. Closing Credits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,398 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Nah, for it to be a proper Horner score it needs to have cheesy melodramatic track title names. Stuff like "Our Love Shall Be Immortal" or for the finale "Together... Now and Forever". It's a shame "There's no Goodbye... Only Love" was already taken by The Perfect Storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 whew. If they did that with Rise of Skywalker we'd have Music Composed and Conducted by Trailer Music Intern #2 Demondm810 and Smeltington 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,398 Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 The funniest part is that despite the producers deciding to change the score for commercial reasons, the movie was still a box office bomb and a critical disaster (41/100 on Metacritic and 24% on Rotten Tomatoes). I mean, Troy is pretty bad, but at least it was a hit at the box office. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,338 Posted May 21, 2020 Author Share Posted May 21, 2020 59 minutes ago, King Mark said: whew. If they did that with Rise of Skywalker we'd have Music Composed and Conducted by Trailer Music Intern #2 No, Lorne Balfe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Damn. That’s called A B testing. We do it all the time in marketing. What a horrible way to choose a movie score. But given the situation, at least they went with data. Though I would have done more screenings. Maybe have had 5 parallel screenings to pick the right score. Or to heck with it, release it as a second track on DVD. Why wouldn’t they do that? It’s already mixed and ready to go. MikeH and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Jeez. That sounds like an awful mess for everyone involved. 9 hours ago, crocodile said: He got Troy-d alright. Karol Sure. Except Yared got screwed out of a major blockbuster that with a lot of buzz, and Horner got screwed out of a film that barely anybody's heard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 4 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: Damn. That’s called A B testing. We do it all the time in marketing. What a horrible way to choose a movie score. But given the situation, at least they went with data. Though I would have done more screenings. Maybe have had 5 parallel screenings to pick the right score. Or to heck with it, release it as a second track on DVD. Why wouldn’t they do that? It’s already mixed and ready to go. I mean these days we're getting two versions of Justice League. I'm sure a "pick your own film score" won't be too far away lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 5 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said: Maybe have had 5 parallel screenings to pick the right score. You'd have been fired for reckless spending, and rightly so.You don't need a hundreds of people to tell you that your movie sucks, 5 in a room should be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeH 768 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Found two clips that compare the finales. I prefer Horner’s approach, feels more somber and tragic. Horner’s Abel (start at 9:16) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,473 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Abel did it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 God, this looks like a slog. Both scores do tread in similar waters. I stay with the Rota (and Prokoviev). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,990 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 46 minutes ago, publicist said: God, this looks like a slog. Both scores do tread in similar waters. I stay with the Rota (and Prokoviev). Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet? https://youtu.be/7s5lQ-bGe6c Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, crocodile said: Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet? https://youtu.be/7s5lQ-bGe6c Karol For a while I thought that was a scene from the film, but after eight minutes I realised it's a still picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now