Jump to content

chat with John Williams and Gustavo Dudamel off-topic posts


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 42
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Not enough people obviously, or we wouldn't be in this mess.

I was referring to "most people". Most people supporting equal rights wouldn't get a white supremacist elected.

Exactly, and if they don't post some rushed statement to their social media they'll be inundated with comments, threats etc. that they're not for the social issues they are. It's disgustingly shallow.

17 minutes ago, Tom said:

Canceling this interview will not in even the tiniest of ways solve any societal problem.  

 

While I agree with you, the interview is not canceled, it is postponed until a later date.  Can we cancel 2020 already?!?!

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Will said:

OK so apparently this is postponed indefinitely... :(

 

 

 

So this is postponed in observance of the peaceful protests, yet America's Got Talent is not...

 

2020 is officially the year that makes little sense.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, JohnnyD said:

2020 is officially the year that makes little sense.

Haha, thanks - you _nearly_ made my day. :-D

It took you that long to realise that?

I knew in the first week of

March. (e.g. half an

eternity ago)

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, Tydirium said:

Why must every single organization and corporation and institution making sociopolitical statements now?

 

Because they're just as entitled to make such statements as anyone else?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess he got elected because he promised things his followers care deeply about, even though he didn't intend to follow up on many of those promises. The real test of the people will be whether he gets re-elected.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to point out that political correctness has two meanings, and it doesn't make much sense to have a discussion about political correctness when we're using the term differently.

 

Original, positive meaning:

 

Quote

As the definition in the Macmillan Dictionary suggests, political correctness was originally a strategy for combating discrimination, and its focus was language. The rationale is that language and social attitudes are closely linked – and there is plenty of sociolinguistic evidence to support this idea. The unthinking use of negative terms when talking about people who belong to any kind of minority is bound to affect the way such people are viewed. But, the argument goes, if these negative terms become socially unacceptable and are replaced by more ‘inclusive’ language, then attitudes will change too. The goal, in other words, is not simply to avoid offending people (on the basis of their race, gender, sexuality or disability) but to change perceptions in society as a whole.

 

This is of course a good thing.

 

However, the meaning of "political correctness" has changed over the last decades to imply "political correctness gone mad":

 

Quote

as time goes on, we begin to hear about cases where (in some people’s opinion) the idea has ‘gone too far’, giving rise eventually to widespread hostility to the whole concept – and to the ‘pejoration’ of the term itself.

 

As I understand, this is the most prevalent use of the term nowadays. It's at least the meaning I'm implying when writing about political correctness.

 

https://www.macmillandictionaryblog.com/its-political-correctness-gone-mad-part-1-of-2

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Arpy said:

Exactly, and if they don't post some rushed statement to their social media they'll be inundated with comments, threats etc. that they're not for the social issues they are. It's disgustingly shallow.

 

I'm not disagreeing with your premise in regards to larger corporations (like the ones reaping billions in profits but evading tax or exploiting child labor), but I think such anger is misplaced against the LA Phil.

 

What practical measures do you expect them to take, exactly? I won't pretend to know the racial makeup of their members but their music director is a Venezuelan-born immigrant. Seems like a case study in leading by example, if you're preaching tolerance of diversity.

 

The arts has always contributed towards society and most orchestras are reliant on donations to stay viable. I personally don't see the harm in spreading a message of solidarity during a period of unrest.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Or perhaps the opponents of political correctness in its original sense succeeded in giving it a bad reputation by crying that every little step was a step too far? And by ridiculing it whenever they encounter it, with absurdly exaggerated "analogies" or "funny" spelling.

 

I don't know if an equivalent exists in English, but in German, the made-up term "Gutmensch" is used by even rather moderate right wing advocates to try and ridicule people for being politically correct, or simply for speaking out for minorities etc. "Gutmensch" translates as "good man". I take pride in being called that.

 

BTW, the LEGO Group also posted one of those blackout messages. And donated $4 million to good causes.

 

 

 

 

ps.  we will, of course, write this donation off and end up with a net gain, given the absurdity of the tax system.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Tom said:

ps.  we will, of course, write this donation off and end up with a net gain, given the absurdity of the tax system.  

 

Must be a different system to what we have in Australia? Here, everyone is entitled to the same tax benefit when making donations -- for every dollar donated, it reduces your taxable income by a dollar.

 

The system is designed to incentivize donations to charity. Certainly preferable to other tax minimization strategies like hoarding profits in offshore tax havens.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Or perhaps the opponents of political correctness in its original sense succeeded in giving it a bad reputation by crying that every little step was a step too far? And by ridiculing it whenever they encounter it, with absurdly exaggerated "analogies" or "funny" spelling.

 

That's probably a part of the explanation, but I think it's more a case of innumerable instances of unnecessary and comical over-correctness leading to the term taking on a negative meaning.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

That's probably a part of the explanation, but I think it's more a case of innumerable instances of unnecessary and comical over-correctness leading to the term taking on a negative meaning.

 

Pretty much the language police.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

You could criticise some other big companies for just posting words without following up with deeds or donations. It could just be a publicity stunt.

 

Does it really matter, though? Support gains traction by sheer mass and size and the dishonesty of naysayers - the Drax variety, implicitly suggesting it's better everyone just shut up - is just a veiled confession that they prefer things like they are.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

Does it really matter, though? Support gains traction by sheer mass and size and the dishonesty of naysayers - the Drax variety, implicitly suggesting it's better everyone just shut up - is just a veiled confession that they prefer things like they are.

 

Not really, we just see through their fake virtue bullshit and opportunism. If they really cared before, they would have done something about it without the topical peer pressure.

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

I'm not disagreeing with your premise in regards to larger corporations (like the ones reaping billions in profits but evading tax or exploiting child labor), but I think such anger is misplaced against the LA Phil.

 

What practical measures do you expect them to take, exactly? I won't pretend to know the racial makeup of their members but their music director is a Venezuelan-born immigrant. Seems like a case study in leading by example, if you're preaching tolerance of diversity.

 

The arts has always contributed towards society and most orchestras are reliant on donations to stay viable. I personally don't see the harm in spreading a message of solidarity during a period of unrest.

 I wasn't singling out the orchestra, nor do I think they should be lumped in with the rest. My post was merely a response to the earlier PC remarks. 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

That's probably a part of the explanation, but I think it's more a case of innumerable instances of unnecessary and comical over-correctness leading to the term taking on a negative meaning.

 

Or perhaps some (or many? or most?) of those instances are cases where it seems unnecessary to you, but not to those affected? Privilege (ooh, trigger word) is essentially not having to care, and often not noticing, when something is insulting or harmful to those not enjoying the same privilege. Calling Black people niggers still wouldn't seem wrong to most people today if it the implications hadn't been pointed out over and over again.

 

Yesterday, there was a scene in Tyrol, Austria where a WWF activist presented a politician with a petition, explaining its concents in a a few sentences she'd obviously prepared for the occasion. He tried to interrupt her, and complained when she wouldn't letting him cut her off (you read that right), calling her a "Luder" (hussy? Probably hard to translate accurately). He later said he "regretted" his "emotional outburst", and "apologised", claiming that she kept cutting him off, when it's obvious from the video that it was exactly the other way round. The point I'm trying to make is: How does something like this happen? The fact that a male politician (a perceived double state of authority) insults a woman for not letting her interrupt him shows that "political incorrectness" is still an inherent part of the way too many people think - or they wouldn't act in these ways in the heat of the moment. The way to act against it is to keep pointing it out, to make people aware of the prejudices and privilege they've (often involuntarily and unconsciously) internalised. And in my experience, those complaining most loudly against awareness of these issues are often also those who deny that the issues exist, or in many cases that they themselves are frequently perpetuating them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said:

Excuse me! They prefer to be referred to as African Americans!

 

17 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Or perhaps the opponents of political correctness in its original sense succeeded in giving it a bad reputation by crying that every little step was a step too far? And by ridiculing it whenever they encounter it, with absurdly exaggerated "analogies" or "funny" spelling.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You know what, those of you who are complaining about companies issuing statements of solidarity w/ BLM are right -- even if done with the best of intentions, a written statement or cancelled performance is not nearly enough; without concrete action, it's an empty corporate gesture. I think most people behind such partial acts of support for BLM would readily acknowledge that.


So what are you doing? Is it safe for me to assume that, for you to have been so genuinely bothered by this to have taken the time out of your day to criticize this problem of hypocritical or inefficacious rhetoric that you are yourselves more actively involved in fighting social injustice? That you are out there protesting, donating, calling your representatives, supporting the vulnerable members of your community, and so on? And if you're a musician or music lover, can I assume you're working on ways of boosting the voices minority composers, musicians, performers? I sure hope so.

 

 

47 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said:

 

Excuse me! They prefer to be referred to as African Americans!

 

Is this some kind of joke to you?

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Þekþiþm said:

Not really, we just see through their fake virtue bullshit and opportunism. If they really cared before, they would have done something about it without the topical peer pressure.

 

You have peddled your reactionary bs here for so long that it's half-cute, half-desperate at this point. But reprimanding celebs and companies for opportunism in supporting good causes from a guy who applauds news anchors for their big tits is just too twee for words. I fully expect another meaningful reply that it's the legs you're after, but who cares.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, publicist said:

 

You have peddled your reactionary bs here for so long that it's half-cute, half-desperate at this point. But reprimanding celebs and companies for opportunism in supporting good causes from a guy who applauds news anchors for their big tits is just too twee for words. I fully expect another meaningful reply that it's the legs you're after, but who cares.

 

Oh blah blah blah

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/5/2020 at 5:32 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

Or perhaps some (or many? or most?) of those instances are cases where it seems unnecessary to you, but not to those affected? Privilege (ooh, trigger word) is essentially not having to care, and often not noticing, when something is insulting or harmful to those not enjoying the same privilege. Calling Black people niggers still wouldn't seem wrong to most people today if it the implications hadn't been pointed out over and over again.

 

What I'm referring to is the enormous fear of insulting anyone in today's society, leading to political over-correctness, which ultimately has a negative impact on the public debate. Ref. The Emperor's New Clothes. Anyway, I don't think Austrians are that bad. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I simply try to not call people by derogatory terms, or to reduce them to stereotypes. I've never had any fear of insulting anyone that way, because being respectful isn't so difficult.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...