Major rumors coming out about Disney and Star Wars

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

On 7/9/2020 at 4:26 AM, gkgyver said:

Not flushing the franchise they paid billions for down the toilet. 

Maybe. 

 

They need to call a plumber after the last 5 years of stinkbombs.

[blondheim 1,157]

I really enjoyed the sequel trilogy. I feel no shame about that. I personally think The Last Jedi was the best Star Wars film since Empire.

[Demodex 557]

I do too. TROS was the only bad film in the trilogy. 

[blondheim 1,157]

I would say 'worse.' I don't know if it's all bad, there were some great moments. Definitely an odd duck, though.

[Arpy 4,145]

Let's face it, people just want more lightsabers, more duels etc. 

6 hours ago, blondheim said:

The High Republic era sounds bomb af. I am here for it.

 

[blondheim 1,157]

13 minutes ago, Arpy said:

Let's face it, people just want more lightsabers, more duels etc. 

 

I have always loved Star Wars. I really like what Disney has done. I want more of it. Simple as that.

 

I can't wait for them to start a new trilogy, new era, new composer. John Williams has created such a massive body of work here, a playground for people to play in for decades, hopefully.

[Chen G. 3,944]

21 hours ago, blondheim said:

I would say 'worse.' I don't know if it's all bad, there were some great moments.

 

No, its bad.

 

I mean, I like liking films, but I also can't walk around deluding myself that everything is awesome. I mean, for sure there's stuff to like IN The Rise of Skywalker, as with almost any movie. I mean, its not like I activelly hate the movie or anything.

 

But on the whole? BAD movie.

[blondheim 1,157]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

No, its bad.

 

I mean, I like liking films, but I also can't walk around deluding myself that everything is awesome. I mean, for sure there's stuff to like IN The Rise of Skywalker, as with almost any movie. I mean, its not like I activelly hate the movie or anything.

 

But on the whole? BAD movie.

I try not to be objective about subjective things. I enjoyed it enough. There are hills I would die on to defend, but this is not one of them. It would be too difficult to go into story beat after story beat. Suffice to say, as a fan of the old expanded universe, I appreciated the world-building more than anything else. I know for them it was about merchandising, and the number of unique action figures they could sell, but it resulted in a richer world being opened up right at the very end. Not typical for a franchise film that is normally trying to close as many doors and answer as many questions as possible. I prefer for things to live on beyond the borders of the page; I don't want all the answers. My favorite television show is The Sopranos. My favorite director is probably David Lynch. I am not comparing Abrams' work to either. I think what I like about Rise of Skywalker is that it was a happy accident. Not well-designed but inadvertently more interesting than I expected.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Tros was the best sequel trilogy entry.

[blondheim 1,157]

2 minutes ago, PuhgreÞiviÞm said:

Tros was the best sequel trilogy entry.

 

See, I feel like The Last Jedi was the Mount Doom sequence and then TROS was the journey home, the Scouring of the Shire, as it were.

 

Luke's final moments with Kylo, it was never going to be better than that. I knew that when I saw it the first time in 2017. All I wanted for TROS was for them to not screw it up too badly and sour that experience. The Last Jedi burned very bright, agree or disagree, you had to have an opinion. We were very lucky to get that even one more time, I highly doubted it would happen twice. So I was content as long as Rise didn't utterly bomb. And imo, it didn't. If Jedi had been another Force Awakens, I would have needed Rise to be great. But thanks to Jedi, I no longer needed to put all of my eggs in one basket. Or any eggs, really. For me, the movie was essentially just a vessel for a Williams' score. Like tortilla chips for cheese.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I just liked Tros more than the other two because it felt more clear on who its protagonist was, and had a certain level of schlockiness that was fitting for a mid-afternoon space serial. It wasn't obnoxiously mysterious like TFA or annoyingly trendy or "potht-moderrhhn" like TLJ.

[Datameister 2,037]

For me, each one has its own strengths and weaknesses. TFA is a fun and nostalgic remake disguised as a sequel. TLJ is an interesting, ambitious departure that largely ignores its predecessor and has odd flaws around every turn. TROS ignores both of its predecessors but starts off really strong before completely and permanently falling apart right around the time Hux reveals himself as the spy. Together, they add up to something less than the sum of the parts. Disappointing. The other two trilogies have their own flaws, but each one does feel like a relatively cohesive chunk of storytelling.

 

But yes, getting some delightful Williams material out of it does sweeten the deal considerably.

 

Anyway, I don't know what to make of the rumors going around. I hold no ill will toward Kathleen Kennedy but won't be that surprised if the company starts quietly distancing themselves from this era of Star Wars. The Mandalorian has demonstrated that even Star Wars fans can agree on liking something if it's done well enough.

[blondheim 1,157]

I really can't disagree more about The Last Jedi. No movie is ever really perfect, but that is the closest we have come since Empire. Even Jedi is more wishy-washy, jumping between 3 and 5 star Wars.

 

The autonomy of characters like Leia and Holdo and Rose and Paige Tico really did it for me. I loved it. It had some of the greatest marketing. I thought the way they floated the idea of two Luke's from the beginning with the two posters was brilliant. There were even rumors that Luke was Snoke or had turned to the Dark Side. All of that added to the Force Projection moment, which was uniformly excellent imo. I can agree to disagree here only because I don't think these conversations ever really go anywhere. I am not going to single-handedly show you something you didn't already see. It's like if a person prefers Aliens to Alien, there is nothing I can say that the movies themselves didn't already show you. If someone watched both movies and prefers one, then so be it. It frightens me when it happens with those two films but hey, to each their own. I feel this way about The Last Jedi as well: if you watched it and didn't come to the same conclusions, oh well. I won't change that for you but hopefully I plant seeds. That's as much as I can expect or hope for.

 

Also, The Mandalorian is very excellent. Not Last Jedi excellent, but quite close.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Star Trek is better than Star Wars, but I'd rather watch the Disney Star Wars than the Kurtzman Star Trek. It's a no-brainer.

[blondheim 1,157]

Star Trek is the most consistently excellent franchise of all time, no doubt. The Kurtzmans are rough, though.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,891]

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Where's my gun? Where's my gun?!

[Holko 9,499]

4 hours ago, blondheim said:

appreciated the world-building more than anything else.

hahahahaha the what?

[blondheim 1,157]

I didn't say character development.

[Chen G. 3,944]

5 hours ago, blondheim said:

There were even rumors that Luke was Snoke or had turned to the Dark Side.

 

which the movie kind of plays around with, with "is it true? Did you try to murder him?!" Maybe its just me, but the attempt to plant plot twists at every turn of the movie got exhausting very quickly.

 

The Force Awakens is still the better film. Deriviative or not, it managed to jump-start a trilogy without ever letting its pace get bogged down, it reinvented Star Wars' visual language without feeling too outlandish, and its just enjoyable to watch.

 

Both are masterpieces compared to The Rise of Skywalker with its breakneck, nearly incoherent pacing and its morally-detestable resolution, and all three should never have been made. Star Wars ended with Return of the Jedi, and the opening crawl of The Force Awakens alone undermined everything the heroes fought for in the films leading up to that one.

[blondheim 1,157]

To each their own. Like I said, if you watched both movies and you prefer Awakens, then great. I want something new from Star Wars, not just a new coat of paint. I am sorry some of the twists annoyed you because I found the whole thing captivating. Holdo immediately became my favorite character of the sequel trilogy and also possibly the whole franchise. Put Laura Dern in everything.

[Chen G. 3,944]

I have no major qualms with the Holdo segment of the film. I mean, yeah, her reluctance to share her plan with Poe makes sense only on a conceptual level, if that, but without it we wouldn't have much of a plot for Poe and the Resistance, so I'm fine with it.

 

Its the other two strands that I have issues with. The Canto Bight one throws all these non-sequitors about animal cruelty (which is a fine theme but has nothing to do with this film as a whole) and some utter nonesense about the morality of arms trade.

 

The Luke thread is fine, except I really would have found the film a lot more interesting if it circumvented the issue of Rey's parents entirely, AND if the conclusion of it all was that "yes, the Jedi should probably end." As it is, it felt like a cop-up.

 

But again, perfectly solid movie, and much, much better than The Rise of Skywalker.

[Holko 9,499]

Once you get off Jakku, TFA barely stops to let anything and anyone have depth, and even when it does it's boring because it's just the terrible lazy screenwriting cliches of "I can't go on with you, I've gotta go back, I've been away too long", "I lied to you, I'm not who you think I am", "I don't want this, I can't take it up, I'm running away", "No, it was the bad guy who made our son bad, like you and the audience already know". Even if you don't prefer the conclusions it arrives at, at least TLJ muses on characters and lore properly.

[Chen G. 3,944]

I thought Rey, Finn and Kylo were very clearly drawn. Poe was more of an extended cameo.

 

Its a fast-paced movie, but its in no way breathless or weightless like The Rise of Skywalker.

[blondheim 1,157]

1 minute ago, Chen G. said:

I have no major qualms with the Holdo segment of the film. I mean, yeah, her reluctance to share her plan with Poe makes sense only on a conceptual level, if that, but without it we wouldn't have much of a plot for Poe and the Resistance, so I'm fine with it.

 

Its the other two strands that I have issues with. The Canto Bight one throws all these non-sequitors about animal cruelty (which is a fine theme but has nothing to do with this film as a whole) and some utter nonesense about the morality of arms trade.

 

The Luke thread is fine, except I really would have found the film a lot more interesting if it circumvented the issue of Rey's parents entirely, AND if the conclusion of it all was that "yes, the Jedi should probably end."

The first point I enjoyed because it proved a valuable point about trusting your superiors, and since she is a woman, this has a social context I really enjoy.

 

I am vegan so I have no problem with animal cruelty being a theme in everything.

 

The point about Rey's parents is only important to me because it highlights another social context: gaslighting. It is never made clear whether Kylo knows this is a lie, even in Rise. Having been gaslit myself, I enjoy this also.

 

Like I said, to each their own. I have watched this film many times, I do have problems with it, but it isn't those things.

[Arpy 4,145]

I think this forum, and the opinions you'll find online have been overly analytical of a film trilogy that doesn't deserve the scrutiny, the hate mobs, the campaigns to have movies rewritten or remade etc. It's a written law of the universe that people must love something or hate it, from one absolute to another.

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

which the movie kind of plays around with, with "is it true? Did you try to murder him?!" Maybe its just me, but the attempt to plant plot twists at every turn of the movie got exhausting very quickly.

Did it play around with that? I thought it was a throwaway line. If people cried about Luke's character in TLJ, they would've rioted if this ever was 'played' with longer than it had to be.

[Chen G. 3,944]

Unlike some of the other twists the film pulls, that one was certainly more blink-and-you’ll-miss-it, but it’s there.

 

To me, it felt like Johnson made a list of dumb fan questions/theories and then set to writing his script, with the hope of providing a twist on those theories. The issue for me is that some of these theories (“who are Rey’s parents?”) are so moronic they should never have been addressed to begin with.

[Arpy 4,145]

12 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Unlike some of the other twists the film pulls, that one was certainly more blink-and-you’ll-miss-it, but it’s there.

 

To me, it felt like Johnson made a list of dumb fan questions/theories and then set to writing his script, with the hope of providing a twist on those theories. The issue for me is that some of these theories (“who are Rey’s parents?”) are so moronic they should never have been addressed to begin with.

The familial link these films are based around seem to beg the question, even if we both think it's the wrong direction.

 

I'm in the middle of a rewrite of the trilogy and just made Rey's parents nobodies from the start (Like Shmi/Owen/Beru), leaving the true familial connection to Ben (and the Force).

[Chen G. 3,944]

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

The familial link these films are based around seem to beg the question, even if we both think it's the wrong direction.

 

These films only became based on familial ties since The Empire Strikes Back, and even in that film it’s only a pinch of it on-top of the actual action. So playing on familial ties isn’t really an inherent element of this series: it’s just a prevalent one; there’s a difference.

[Arpy 4,145]

10 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

These films only became based on familial ties since The Empire Strikes Back, and even in that film it’s only a pinch of it on-top of the actual action. So playing on familial ties isn’t really an inherent element of this series: it’s just a prevalent one; there’s a difference.

Yes, and since then the cast, the directors, Kennedy, Williams etc. have all pin-pointed this exact element as an inherent aspect of the franchise. It doesn't matter when it became the prevalent element, only that it's become the staple of the series.

[Chen G. 3,944]

40 minutes ago, Arpy said:

since then the cast, the directors, Kennedy, Williams etc. have all pin-pointed this exact element as an inherent aspect of the franchise.

 

which doesn't actually make it so.

[Arpy 4,145]

Bullshit, that's what the series is remembered for. 

[Alex 2,833]

Remember when Rey and Kylo kissed? Jesus... I think about that sometimes and cringe.

[gkgyver 1,645]

14 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

No, its bad.

 

I mean, I like liking films, but I also can't walk around deluding myself that everything is awesome. I mean, for sure there's stuff to like IN The Rise of Skywalker, as with almost any movie. I mean, its not like I activelly hate the movie or anything.

 

But on the whole? BAD movie.

 

What's the stuff to like? 

I mean, unintentional hilarity aside. 

Like the Poe/Zori "story", where she practically begs him to come with her, and then for no reason, after victory, blows him off like a nasty. 

[blondheim 1,157]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

These films only became based on familial ties since The Empire Strikes Back, and even in that film it’s only a pinch of it on-top of the actual action. So playing on familial ties isn’t really an inherent element of this series: it’s just a prevalent one; there’s a difference.

I would almost completely agree with this... if Luke's family wasn't a major part of A New Hope i.e. "becoming  a Jedi, like your father before you." So the correct word may not be inherent (I can't think of a proper word at this moment to replace it that would mean 'there from the very beginning') but it's damn close to being so. Ben is clearly a mentor, father figure that he loses and gains, etc. Let's not get it twisted, this is a family saga.

[Chen G. 3,944]

On 7/16/2020 at 3:40 PM, gkgyver said:

What's the stuff to like? 

 

I'm straining to recall some of the specifics, but I thought the film mostly looked good. There's nothing wrong with the camerawork or most of the acting. Some of the jokes are funny and a few beats in the action are mildly fun.

 

I mean, that's something, right? At least its not the sheer amateurish tedium of Attack of the Clones.

 

On 7/16/2020 at 4:03 PM, blondheim said:

Let's not get it twisted, this is a family saga.

 

Family is a theme in the original film (and even more so in earlier drafts of it) but that doesn't make it "a family saga." What drama is present in that film doesn't stem from "this is your father/uncle/brother/sister/son."

[blondheim 1,157]

49 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

I'm straining to recall some of the specifics, but I thought the film mostly looked good. There's nothing wrong with the camerawork or most of the acting. Some of the jokes are funny and a few beats in the action are mildly fun.

 

I mean, that's something, right? At least its not the sheer tedium of Attack of the Clones.

 

 

Family is a theme in the original film (and even more so in earlier drafts of it) but that doesn't make it "a family saga." What drama is present in that film doesn't stem from "this is your father/uncle/brother/sister/son."

 

Luke's reason for going with Ben is literally "I want to be a Jedi, like my father before me." His whole impetus is to follow in daddy's footsteps. He asks his uncle about him, Ben about him gets his father's lightsaber, etc. I disagree.

[Smeltington 1,436]

Interesting points. He starts out idealizing his father, then is shocked out of that ideal, but in the end they reconcile. Kind of an extreme version of what many young people go through in relation to their parents. Even though I don't believe the twist was ever planned, the whole thing comes together better than I've given it credit for.

[blondheim 1,157]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

What drama is present in that film doesn't stem from "this is your father/uncle/brother/sister/son."

I can't stop thinking about this comment. That is literally what the whole saga is about.

[Chen G. 3,944]

6 minutes ago, blondheim said:

That is literally what the whole saga is about.

 

But not the original film, nor the majority of its immediate sequel.

 

Like I said, its a prevalent aspect of the series, but not an inherent one. Its also, unfortunately, the weakest and most overplayed aspect of the series. The sequel trilogy would have done better to downplay it.

[blondheim 1,157]

Just now, Chen G. said:

 

But not the original film, nor the majority of its immediate sequel.

 

Like I said, its a prevalent aspect of the series, but not an inherent one. Its also, unfortunately, the weakest and most overplayed aspect of the series.

To each their own.

[mstrox 6,647]

It's mostly a franchise about lasers.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

seems like this thread is just disenchantment spillover

[Chen G. 3,944]

Its disenchantment without you-know-who.

[Pellaeon 593]

50 minutes ago, mstrox said:

It's mostly a franchise about lasers.

 

I thought buddy comedy?

 

[blondheim 1,157]

Even with that Mel Brooks expression on his face, Han Solo is sexy.

[Datameister 2,037]

17 hours ago, blondheim said:

I really can't disagree more about The Last Jedi. No movie is ever really perfect, but that is the closest we have come since Empire. Even Jedi is more wishy-washy, jumping between 3 and 5 star Wars.

 

The autonomy of characters like Leia and Holdo and Rose and Paige Tico really did it for me. I loved it. It had some of the greatest marketing. I thought the way they floated the idea of two Luke's from the beginning with the two posters was brilliant. There were even rumors that Luke was Snoke or had turned to the Dark Side. All of that added to the Force Projection moment, which was uniformly excellent imo. I can agree to disagree here only because I don't think these conversations ever really go anywhere. I am not going to single-handedly show you something you didn't already see. It's like if a person prefers Aliens to Alien, there is nothing I can say that the movies themselves didn't already show you. If someone watched both movies and prefers one, then so be it. It frightens me when it happens with those two films but hey, to each their own. I feel this way about The Last Jedi as well: if you watched it and didn't come to the same conclusions, oh well. I won't change that for you but hopefully I plant seeds. That's as much as I can expect or hope for.

 

Also, The Mandalorian is very excellent. Not Last Jedi excellent, but quite close.

 

I actually agree quite strongly about all the positive attributes you bring up here, and I can think of others as well. (I find Smoke soooooo much more interesting here than in TFA, for instance.) I do still think there are some counterproductive and frustrating choices in the storytelling (many of them more micro than macro), and I certainly don't think its handling of Rey or Finn feels like an organic continuation of their arcs from TFA. But there's still a lot to enjoy and appreciate, and the film has continually grown on me.

[Edmilson 7,398]

52 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Its disenchantment without you-know-who.

 

Without Lord Voldemort? 

[mstrox 6,647]

Worse

[blondheim 1,157]

1 hour ago, Datameister said:

 

I actually agree quite strongly about all the positive attributes you bring up here, and I can think of others as well. (I find Smoke soooooo much more interesting here than in TFA, for instance.) I do still think there are some counterproductive and frustrating choices in the storytelling (many of them more micro than macro), and I certainly don't think its handling of Rey or Finn feels like an organic continuation of their arcs from TFA. But there's still a lot to enjoy and appreciate, and the film has continually grown on me.

 

I liked what they did with Rey, only because I think not focusing on her and scattering many plot elements helped the movie feel more like an escape from something, more of a struggle to pull a solution out of their ass. It helps set up "the spark" legend concept I love so much. What a unique way to fire the galaxy back up. With a carefully planned illusion by Luke. He was the hero so many viewers complain they didn't get to see, but the filmmakers did it in a completely unexpected way. Bravo from me. To say I was baffled by the hatred this movie has received is an understatement.

 

As for Finn, he goes from being a deserter to someone who proudly accepts "Rebel scum!" from Phasma. Could they have done more? Absolutely, but I feel like that is more of a problem for Rise. Rian lobbed up a decent ball, J.J. just didn't score a goal. I can't help but add that the restraint they showed in only letting us see her one hateful eye in that helmet crack was remarkable. It was so respectful to the strength and endurance of the character. It made her a female Boba Fett, which is exactly what she was. They never let her look vulnerable. It wasn't the ending of Metroid NES.

 

*chef's kiss