Popular Post Datameister 2,019 Posted July 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 16, 2020 2 hours ago, blondheim said: I liked what they did with Rey, only because I think not focusing on her and scattering many plot elements helped the movie feel more like an escape from something, more of a struggle to pull a solution out of their ass. It helps set up "the spark" legend concept I love so much. What a unique way to fire the galaxy back up. With a carefully planned illusion by Luke. He was the hero so many viewers complain they didn't get to see, but the filmmakers did it in a completely unexpected way. Bravo from me. To say I was baffled by the hatred this movie has received is an understatement. As for Finn, he goes from being a deserter to someone who proudly accepts "Rebel scum!" from Phasma. Could they have done more? Absolutely, but I feel like that is more of a problem for Rise. Rian lobbed up a decent ball, J.J. just didn't score a goal. I can't help but add that the restraint they showed in only letting us see her one hateful eye in that helmet crack was remarkable. It was so respectful to the strength and endurance of the character. It made her a female Boba Fett, which is exactly what she was. They never let her look vulnerable. It wasn't the ending of Metroid NES. *chef's kiss I didn't think we needed more focus on Rey - I just thought it was bizarre that they changed her central drive/question. In TFA, she wasn't wondering who her family was...she was just waiting for them to return. Suddenly in TLJ she's obsessed with this question of who her parents were. I think either way would have been valid, but having both feels like a contradiction. (I do miss the interaction between her and Finn, but I don't really hold that against the film. Hell, how many scenes do Luke and Han get together in Empire? Two?) As far as Luke goes, I totally agree, and I'm baffled by the hatred with regard to his role in the film specifically. (Other than the "tossing the saber" moment, that is, which just didn't work tonally for me. I would have preferred that he simply dropped it at his feet and walked away, or at least thrown the saber in a less comedic manner.) But Luke's arc makes perfect sense to me and I think it's Mark Hamill's best performance as the character by far. For Finn, the thing is...he isn't a deserter at the end of TFA. I mean, yes, he's a deserter from the First Order perspective, but certainly not from the Resistance. He practically gives his life in battle after already having his come-to-Jesus moment on Takodana. It felt to me like a vague rewind and retread to see him go through the same sort of arc in TLJ. The best argument I've heard in favor of that approach was that Johnson was trying to show him progressing from fighting just to protect Rey to truly fighting for the cause of the Resistance. That works for me in theory...I just think it's handled a little clumsily, particularly because I don't think TFA really sets up that storyline very well. No problems with Phasma here, either. The Boba Fett analogy is perfectly apt. I do rather like the deleted alternate version of the scene, but the version in the final cut is good too. blondheim, Chen G. and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Datameister said: I didn't think we needed more focus on Rey - I just thought it was bizarre that they changed her central drive/question. In TFA, she wasn't wondering who her family was...she was just waiting for them to return. Suddenly in TLJ she's obsessed with this question of who her parents were. I think either way would have been valid, but having both feels like a contradiction. (I do miss the interaction between her and Finn, but I don't really hold that against the film. Hell, how many scenes do Luke and Han get together in Empire? Two?) I apologize for assuming that was what you meant. I am just so used to hearing that argument. This is an interesting point. To me personally, the who they are, where they are, and why are similar enough for it not to bother me, though I agree there is a distinction and not one I had thought about before this clearly. Interestingly, Awakens asks where, Jedi asks who, and Rise answers those by providing why. Still clumsy though. 'Inadvertently interesting' is the closest I feel I have gotten to accurately expressing my feelings about the sequel trilogy. Other than Jedi, of course. You also made a good point about Finn. I agree that his involvement in Awakens was Rey-driven so I also thought it was interesting that they split that hair without more explanation. It does fit in with trauma, which I am sure he has plenty of, but I do wish there was at least a line more of development with that. I don't know how they could have done it, but I am sure there was a way they could have. There is always a way. Datameister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,901 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 21 minutes ago, Datameister said: In TFA, she wasn't wondering who her family was...she was just waiting for them to return. Suddenly in TLJ she's obsessed with this question of who her parents were. Yes! Plus, even within The Last Jedi, the issue of Rey's parents is only brought up about an hour into the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 There's a general continuity that works for me, though. Since Force Awakens, Rey wanted to feel a sense of belonging...she didn't have it in her parents, and briefly felt it with Han. In Last Jedi, she wanted it in Luke, too, but she couldn't find it there either. The mirror scene is crucial because it ultimately foreshadows her greatest fear: being alone without someone to give her a sense of purpose, direction, or belonging. This of course is later confirmed by Kylo: she has to forge her own place in life, her own sense of, yep, belonging. Asinine as Palpatine's existence in Rise of Skywalker is, his tempting of Rey in the climactic stretch of the movie is far more compelling to me than his attempt at the same in Return of the Jedi. Over the trilogy, Rey essentially created her own family, her own purpose, her sense of fitting in the galaxy. Palpatine threatens to yank all of that away from her, unless she "sacrifices" herself by killing him in anger. blondheim and Arpy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,709 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 After TFA, when RJ took over, I think it was a rare instance where the movie makers got caught up by the hype and started forming the script after fans’ expectations instead of focusing on writing a good story. A precursor to Sonic The Movie and ZS’s Justice League perhaps? Fans “demanded” an answer... but in RJ’s case the answer wasn’t clear for what the fans wanted (Luke’s daughter? Han’s daughter? Etc...). Fans just wanted an answer! It was up for him to decide and, as with many other parts of the movie, he chose to “subvert” expectations. Without the hype for Rey’s lineage, would it have been addressed at all? I think RJ was so fixated on “subverting” expectations that he put an answer in the script even though it was uncalled for. But I’m thinking lately that Disney had a plan and a hand with all the decisions that fans hate (not just regarding Rey) made in TLJ, which is a little bit overlooked when criticizing RJ. It’s not solely his fault TLJ derailed the Star Wars universe (well, it kinda is but, obviously, Disney was onboard). I guess Disney wanted to move away from the ‘everybody is family’ trope because that would make it easier to produce stand alone features. It’s easy to deduce other business incentives behind the faults in the script for TLJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,420 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 As I see it, Rian fixed a lot of problems JJ created, and to do that he made the fixes into plot twists. Hence all the "subversions". It was dumb for Rey to be related to someone we already knew, so he did away with that, and revealed it at the same point in the series as the "I am your father" reveal in the originals. And he solved the problem of what to do with a dumb character like Snoke by killing him off. I think you're right, rough cut, that he probably felt more pressure to address Rey's parents due to the fans, but JJ knew what he was doing when he planted that whole mystery in the first place. blondheim and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,901 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 If the issue of Rey's family was never adressed in The Last Jedi, or at least didn't have this big build-up leading to a dramatic reveal, I think it would have been better. Treating their being nobodies as this earth-shattering reveal when it was in fact the only reasonable way for the story to go, wasn't a good choice. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon 593 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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