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Opinion: ROTJ score is underrated.


mxsch

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Why people keeping ROTJ lower than SW, ESB and even TPM?

 

It have so many themes incorporated: Force, Luke, Leia, Solo and the Princess, Yoda, Vader, Ewoks, Jabba, Emperor, Luke and Leia.

30 minutes of final action music is dope. For example, TPM barely have any action music, even if you count all, it still will be under 30 minutes, there are also less themes, and almost nothing happening in the middle with all of Tatooine and Coruscant stuff.  

And in comparison with Empire, which great, without doubt, but relies heavily on Yoda's and Vader's themes, when they are developed further in Return, first even acts as foundation for Luke and Leia theme.  

Btw, it's pretty sad that droids theme from ESB not returned. 

 

P,S, Ok, I forgot to mention that it was based on Filmtracks ratings, and this was pretty stupid, But 4.18 still little bit low for ROTJ.

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it's not really underrated. It's No2 on most people's list after ESB

 

It's a bit dragged down by the Endor cues

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I don't think it's underrated on this forum at all.  It seems to be the majority of user's 1st or 2nd choice for favorite Star Wars score.

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5 hours ago, Montre said:

My dude, TPM does not have barely any action music. And it is filled to the brim with themes. You need to look past duel of the fates and listen to the compete score.

Just relistened to it yesterday. 

Aside final battle, there are still bits and pieces. And what about themes, there are stil less than in  ROTJ. Force, Droids, Emperor, Anakin, Jar-Jar, Qui-Gon (very cool but understated theme), Maul, Yoda and Jabba themes cameos. Also Shmi have kind of theme. And Williams dropped them all in other two prequels, (minus Force and Emperor, of course. Tracked music with droids march doesn't count.)

2 hours ago, Arpy said:

I don't like the Jabba music, plus the score sounds older than SW.

What do you mean under older?

Because it was recorded in better place than SW. 

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As others here have said Return of the Jedi really isn't underrated, perhaps less talked about, but definitely not underrated. And it is a fantastic score, high on my list of SW scores.

 

 

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51 minutes ago, mxsch said:

And Williams dropped them all in other two prequels, (minus Force and Emperor, of course. Tracked music with droids march doesn't count.)

 

Anakin's theme and Shmi's theme make appearances in a few places, Anakin's theme being in both of the other films, although very sparsely.

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5 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Anakin's theme and Shmi's theme make appearances in a few places, Anakin's theme being in both of the other films, although very sparsely.

I'm knew that I was wrong.

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27 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

 

Anakin's theme and Shmi's theme make appearances in a few places, Anakin's theme being in both of the other films, although very sparsely.

As a whole the narrative of the Prequels had much less thematic continuity because many of the concepts and characters who received themes were often in just one of the films so their themes vanished after one movie. Qui-Gonn, The Separatist plot, Jango Fett etc. just didn't travel from one film to the other. Anakin had a theme but I think they thought that it wasn't a good fit for the angsty young man in AOTC and ROTS.

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47 minutes ago, Incanus said:

As a whole the narrative of the Prequels had much less thematic continuity because many of the concepts and characters who received themes were often in just one of the films so their themes vanished after one movie. Qui-Gonn, The Separatist plot, Jango Fett etc. just didn't travel from one film to the other. Anakin had a theme but I think they thought that it wasn't a good fit for the angsty young man in AOTC and ROTS.

AOTC is also ultra-boring. Zam chase and Jango escape are great, plus new material for arena, but other tracked stuff from TPM is a nightmare. I heard about criticisms for ROTS because lack of themes, but it action-packed, at least.

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ROTJ is fantastic but I believe the reason it is now often not talked about as much is due to both the original soundtrack and the ‘97 expansion. The original ‘83 album was so short compared to SW and TESB and a lot of fan favorite cues were missing. After the Arista box set came out and fixed that with the cues we wanted like “Dark aside Beckons”, Darth Vader’s Death”, etc I’d  say it became a lot of ours favorite. Then the Special Edition in ‘97 came out and unfortunately a lot of the cues were merged together and created extremely long tracks that at least for me, caused the listening experience to degrade. Especially in the early part of the score as well as a few tracks towards the end. Like I said, fantastic score though. Just a long listening experience. 

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I never quite understood that, if tracks wouldn't be joined, there'd be a lot of start and stop, held note going quieter, 3 seconds of track changing, other held note starting and picking up, or something starting like BAM out of nowhere, making the whole thing longer and a lot worse listen. Like Battle of Endor, a lot of the cues are written to directly lead into each other. Sure some 10 minute underscore stretches just in one piece are not necessarily ideal and wouldn't and shouldn't be done like that in the next attempt but how would you even notice it if you're just listening like you should and not skipping around? The problem with the SE is the godawful sound and some terribly misplaced inserts.

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31 minutes ago, Holko said:

I never quite understood that, if tracks wouldn't be joined, there'd be a lot of start and stop, held note going quieter, 3 seconds of track changing, other held note starting and picking up, or something starting like BAM out of nowhere, making the whole thing longer and a lot worse listen. Like Battle of Endor, a lot of the cues are written to directly lead into each other. Sure some 10 minute underscore stretches just in one piece are not necessarily ideal and wouldn't and shouldn't be done like that in the next attempt but how would you even notice it if you're just listening like you should and not skipping around? The problem with the SE is the godawful sound and some terribly misplaced inserts.

Not that much, actually. This is from my separated cue version. But yeah, they work much better when joined. And what about the inserts, there are only two, to my knowledge. Excerpt from Han Solo Returns in Speeder Bike Chase / Land of the Ewoks, and alternate Emperor Arrives in The Lightsaber, it seems they used it to make this track longer, but it bugs me that it wasn't edited in medley with others, this is just stupid.

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OP's statements on TPM are seriously misguided. From the opening of the film to the rescue on Naboo, to the podrace sequence and the final act of the film, the score is filled to the brim with bombastic, fun action music. The beautiful, quiet music for the majority of the Tatooine sequence is incredibly nuanced and closely scored. I don't know how anyone doesn't feel heartbreak in Shmi's theme for example.

 

ROTJ has great highlights, but I don't enjoy the dark and moody music throughout the Jabba sequence nor the ewok stuff. I do appreciate how effortlessly JW weaves the entire OT's glossary of themes throughout the score. The stuff on Dagobah, in particular, is a fine example of JW's dexterity and sensitivity with leitmotifs.

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It is one of my least enjoyed SW scores. It just doesn't have the operatic grandeur and melodrama of its predecessors. On its own, it is a pretty good score. A lot of that has probably to do with disappointing sound quality of the RCA album. So yes, I am perhaps "underrating" it.

 

Karol

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2 hours ago, Arpy said:

TPM barely has any action music? WTF?

AotC is boring? WTF?

 

@mxsch It sounds muffled and quiet. 

This is problem of 97 release, not score overall.

Okay, maybe I've got too hard with TPM, but AOTC is really pure boredom.

 

2 hours ago, crocodile said:

It is one of my least enjoyed SW scores. It just doesn't have the operatic grandeur and melodrama of its predecessors. On its own, it is a pretty good score. A lot of that has probably to do with disappointing sound quality of the RCA album. So yes, I am perhaps "underrating" it.

 

Karol

You shouldn't even count this garbage can release as listening experience.

ROTJ sounds better than SW and on the same level as ESB or even little better. The only cue really affected by recording is Superstructure Chase, because it was recorded in different venue and not in the Abbey Road.

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17 hours ago, mxsch said:

Why people keeping ROTJ lower than SW, ESB and even TPM?


Hey, that’s me! But let’s get one thing straight, I don’t rate ROTJ lower than those other 3 because I dislike it. Far from it! I love ROTJ. I just love SW, ESB and TPM more.

 

For me ROTJ drags a bit somewhere in the middle. It’s a long score and unfortunately, for me it feels long (unlike ESB and TPM). There’s not a theme in it that I don’t like, though like with TPM, I’m not really a fan of the ending cue (either Yub Nub or Victory Celebration). I don’t like Jedi Rocks either, but I can stand Lapti Nek once in a while. Beyond that, I think the individual cues are generally brilliant, top drawer Williams for sure, it’s just not a score I can listen to in a single sitting for whatever reason.

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23 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Unlike Return of the Jedi, Attack of the Clones is a really underrated score. Sure, there's not that much action music, but the quieter material is great! 

 

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

AOTC is filled with great music. Also lack of action music doesn't equal boring. Some of my favorite material from AOTC is the quieter stuff. AOTC does have a ton of action music though, even though only a portion of it appears on the album.

I must confess that I like stuff with Anakin and Padme on Naboo.

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Return to Tatooine is one of my favorite Star Wars tracks, and I'm being totally serious.

 

Also, I find the complete score to Return of the Jedi more digestible than Empire Strikes Back, though there are definitely cues where they were designed to support the film foremost.

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5 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

Return to Tatooine is one of my favorite Star Wars tracks, and I'm being totally serious.

 

Also, I find the complete score to Return of the Jedi more digestible than Empire Strikes Back, though there are definitely cues where they were designed to support the film foremost.

You mean Tatooine Rendezvous?

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SW, ESB and ROJ are all on a par for me, although they are obviously different.

 

ROTS is the head-scratcher for me, I just can't get into that score. TPM is the most Star-Warsy of the prequels, although my favourite prequel score as pure music is AOTC (although it doesn't really have that SW vibe - it's more of a Hitchcockian / Herrmannesque thing).

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It would help if we had the complete score in decent quality. The existing 'complete' release sounds atrocious and I never want to revisit the score as a result (outside a few unreleased cues on the Anthology set).

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All the scores deserve complete, remastered releases. How long will they twiddle their thumbs on these iconic scores? 

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I don't think it's accurate to call it 'underrated'. The film is, perhaps, but not the score.

 

Personally, it's not only my favourite SW score, but my second-favourite score of all time.

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1 hour ago, Thor said:

Personally, it's not only my favourite SW score, but my second-favourite score of all time.

In what form do you listen to it? The LP program probably. I find it a bit inconvenient that this magnificent score never got the 2LP program it deserved. There is enough highlights that would have allowed for some 30 minutes more without weakening the listening experience. I'm wondering what you think about this.

 

Generally I wouldn't give the title of most underrated Star Wars score to Episode VI. That trophy should go to Episode II. And if anyone replies to this with "but Episode II is bullshit" you confirm that.

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17 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

I find it a bit inconvenient that this magnificent score never got the 2LP program it deserved.

 

It basically got that in the anthology box.

33 minutes ago, Thor said:

JURASSIC PARK.

 

Oh yes, I forgot. It might be my favourite as well.

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37 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

In what form do you listen to it? The LP program probably. I find it a bit inconvenient that this magnificent score never got the 2LP program it deserved. There is enough highlights that would have allowed for some 30 minutes more without weakening the listening experience. I'm wondering what you think about this.

 

Generally I wouldn't give the title of most underrated Star Wars score to Episode VI. That trophy should go to Episode II. And if anyone replies to this with "but Episode II is bullshit" you confirm that.

But Epsiode II is bullshit!

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