mxsch 115 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Why people keeping ROTJ lower than SW, ESB and even TPM? It have so many themes incorporated: Force, Luke, Leia, Solo and the Princess, Yoda, Vader, Ewoks, Jabba, Emperor, Luke and Leia. 30 minutes of final action music is dope. For example, TPM barely have any action music, even if you count all, it still will be under 30 minutes, there are also less themes, and almost nothing happening in the middle with all of Tatooine and Coruscant stuff. And in comparison with Empire, which great, without doubt, but relies heavily on Yoda's and Vader's themes, when they are developed further in Return, first even acts as foundation for Luke and Leia theme. Btw, it's pretty sad that droids theme from ESB not returned. P,S, Ok, I forgot to mention that it was based on Filmtracks ratings, and this was pretty stupid, But 4.18 still little bit low for ROTJ. Montre, Fabulin, 1977 and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 it's not really underrated. It's No2 on most people's list after ESB It's a bit dragged down by the Endor cues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,319 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I don't think it's underrated on this forum at all. It seems to be the majority of user's 1st or 2nd choice for favorite Star Wars score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montre 79 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 My dude, TPM has tons of action music. And it is filled to the brim with themes. You need to look past duel of the fates and listen to the compete score. Edmilson and SingeMoisi 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,274 Posted July 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2020 I can't praise ROTJ enough, it's one of my all time favorites, but I would never praise at the expense of TPM, which I also consider to be a masterpiece Cerebral Cortex, SingeMoisi and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 4 hours ago, King Mark said: It's a bit dragged down by the Endor cues People don't like the Endor music? News to me. SingeMoisi and 1977 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,626 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 that Land of the Ewoks bit Manakin Skywalker, 1977 and SingeMoisi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I don't like the Jabba music, plus the score sounds older than SW. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, King Mark said: that Land of the Ewoks bit That stuff is great! SingeMoisi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I like the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 29 minutes ago, King Mark said: that Land of the Ewoks bit What's wrong with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Montre said: My dude, TPM does not have barely any action music. And it is filled to the brim with themes. You need to look past duel of the fates and listen to the compete score. Just relistened to it yesterday. Aside final battle, there are still bits and pieces. And what about themes, there are stil less than in ROTJ. Force, Droids, Emperor, Anakin, Jar-Jar, Qui-Gon (very cool but understated theme), Maul, Yoda and Jabba themes cameos. Also Shmi have kind of theme. And Williams dropped them all in other two prequels, (minus Force and Emperor, of course. Tracked music with droids march doesn't count.) 2 hours ago, Arpy said: I don't like the Jabba music, plus the score sounds older than SW. What do you mean under older? Because it was recorded in better place than SW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 As others here have said Return of the Jedi really isn't underrated, perhaps less talked about, but definitely not underrated. And it is a fantastic score, high on my list of SW scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 51 minutes ago, mxsch said: And Williams dropped them all in other two prequels, (minus Force and Emperor, of course. Tracked music with droids march doesn't count.) Anakin's theme and Shmi's theme make appearances in a few places, Anakin's theme being in both of the other films, although very sparsely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Anakin's theme and Shmi's theme make appearances in a few places, Anakin's theme being in both of the other films, although very sparsely. I'm knew that I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,713 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Anakin's theme and Shmi's theme make appearances in a few places, Anakin's theme being in both of the other films, although very sparsely. As a whole the narrative of the Prequels had much less thematic continuity because many of the concepts and characters who received themes were often in just one of the films so their themes vanished after one movie. Qui-Gonn, The Separatist plot, Jango Fett etc. just didn't travel from one film to the other. Anakin had a theme but I think they thought that it wasn't a good fit for the angsty young man in AOTC and ROTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 47 minutes ago, Incanus said: As a whole the narrative of the Prequels had much less thematic continuity because many of the concepts and characters who received themes were often in just one of the films so their themes vanished after one movie. Qui-Gonn, The Separatist plot, Jango Fett etc. just didn't travel from one film to the other. Anakin had a theme but I think they thought that it wasn't a good fit for the angsty young man in AOTC and ROTS. AOTC is also ultra-boring. Zam chase and Jango escape are great, plus new material for arena, but other tracked stuff from TPM is a nightmare. I heard about criticisms for ROTS because lack of themes, but it action-packed, at least. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Porkins 53 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 ROTJ is fantastic but I believe the reason it is now often not talked about as much is due to both the original soundtrack and the ‘97 expansion. The original ‘83 album was so short compared to SW and TESB and a lot of fan favorite cues were missing. After the Arista box set came out and fixed that with the cues we wanted like “Dark aside Beckons”, Darth Vader’s Death”, etc I’d say it became a lot of ours favorite. Then the Special Edition in ‘97 came out and unfortunately a lot of the cues were merged together and created extremely long tracks that at least for me, caused the listening experience to degrade. Especially in the early part of the score as well as a few tracks towards the end. Like I said, fantastic score though. Just a long listening experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,499 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I never quite understood that, if tracks wouldn't be joined, there'd be a lot of start and stop, held note going quieter, 3 seconds of track changing, other held note starting and picking up, or something starting like BAM out of nowhere, making the whole thing longer and a lot worse listen. Like Battle of Endor, a lot of the cues are written to directly lead into each other. Sure some 10 minute underscore stretches just in one piece are not necessarily ideal and wouldn't and shouldn't be done like that in the next attempt but how would you even notice it if you're just listening like you should and not skipping around? The problem with the SE is the godawful sound and some terribly misplaced inserts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 31 minutes ago, Holko said: I never quite understood that, if tracks wouldn't be joined, there'd be a lot of start and stop, held note going quieter, 3 seconds of track changing, other held note starting and picking up, or something starting like BAM out of nowhere, making the whole thing longer and a lot worse listen. Like Battle of Endor, a lot of the cues are written to directly lead into each other. Sure some 10 minute underscore stretches just in one piece are not necessarily ideal and wouldn't and shouldn't be done like that in the next attempt but how would you even notice it if you're just listening like you should and not skipping around? The problem with the SE is the godawful sound and some terribly misplaced inserts. Not that much, actually. This is from my separated cue version. But yeah, they work much better when joined. And what about the inserts, there are only two, to my knowledge. Excerpt from Han Solo Returns in Speeder Bike Chase / Land of the Ewoks, and alternate Emperor Arrives in The Lightsaber, it seems they used it to make this track longer, but it bugs me that it wasn't edited in medley with others, this is just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,843 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 OP's statements on TPM are seriously misguided. From the opening of the film to the rescue on Naboo, to the podrace sequence and the final act of the film, the score is filled to the brim with bombastic, fun action music. The beautiful, quiet music for the majority of the Tatooine sequence is incredibly nuanced and closely scored. I don't know how anyone doesn't feel heartbreak in Shmi's theme for example. ROTJ has great highlights, but I don't enjoy the dark and moody music throughout the Jabba sequence nor the ewok stuff. I do appreciate how effortlessly JW weaves the entire OT's glossary of themes throughout the score. The stuff on Dagobah, in particular, is a fine example of JW's dexterity and sensitivity with leitmotifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,988 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 It is one of my least enjoyed SW scores. It just doesn't have the operatic grandeur and melodrama of its predecessors. On its own, it is a pretty good score. A lot of that has probably to do with disappointing sound quality of the RCA album. So yes, I am perhaps "underrating" it. Karol 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Arpy 4,145 Posted July 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2020 TPM barely has any action music? WTF? AotC is boring? WTF? @mxsch It sounds muffled and quiet. SingeMoisi, Edmilson and fuhrsy31 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Arpy said: TPM barely has any action music? WTF? AotC is boring? WTF? @mxsch It sounds muffled and quiet. This is problem of 97 release, not score overall. Okay, maybe I've got too hard with TPM, but AOTC is really pure boredom. 2 hours ago, crocodile said: It is one of my least enjoyed SW scores. It just doesn't have the operatic grandeur and melodrama of its predecessors. On its own, it is a pretty good score. A lot of that has probably to do with disappointing sound quality of the RCA album. So yes, I am perhaps "underrating" it. Karol You shouldn't even count this garbage can release as listening experience. ROTJ sounds better than SW and on the same level as ESB or even little better. The only cue really affected by recording is Superstructure Chase, because it was recorded in different venue and not in the Abbey Road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,740 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 17 hours ago, mxsch said: Why people keeping ROTJ lower than SW, ESB and even TPM? Hey, that’s me! But let’s get one thing straight, I don’t rate ROTJ lower than those other 3 because I dislike it. Far from it! I love ROTJ. I just love SW, ESB and TPM more. For me ROTJ drags a bit somewhere in the middle. It’s a long score and unfortunately, for me it feels long (unlike ESB and TPM). There’s not a theme in it that I don’t like, though like with TPM, I’m not really a fan of the ending cue (either Yub Nub or Victory Celebration). I don’t like Jedi Rocks either, but I can stand Lapti Nek once in a while. Beyond that, I think the individual cues are generally brilliant, top drawer Williams for sure, it’s just not a score I can listen to in a single sitting for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Naïve Old Fart 9,507 Posted July 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2020 RETURN OF THE JEDI underrated? Not by me. Over the years, it's crept up to become my favourite Star Wars score. I've posted before, and I'll post, again: everything from BROTHER/SISTER, FATHER/SON onwards, is sublime. Ricard, SingeMoisi and Sharkissimo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Not underrated at all. Lots of great music, as original post points out, and it is no secret to none. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted July 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 10, 2020 AOTC is filled with great music. Also lack of action music doesn't equal boring. Some of my favorite material from AOTC is the quieter stuff. AOTC does have a ton of action music though, even though only a portion of it appears on the album. Falstaft, 1977, The Illustrious Jerry and 3 others 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,395 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Unlike Return of the Jedi, Attack of the Clones is a really underrated score. Sure, there's not that much action music, but the quieter material is great! 1977 and Manakin Skywalker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Unlike Return of the Jedi, Attack of the Clones is a really underrated score. Sure, there's not that much action music, but the quieter material is great! 1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said: AOTC is filled with great music. Also lack of action music doesn't equal boring. Some of my favorite material from AOTC is the quieter stuff. AOTC does have a ton of action music though, even though only a portion of it appears on the album. I must confess that I like stuff with Anakin and Padme on Naboo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Return to Tatooine is one of my favorite Star Wars tracks, and I'm being totally serious. Also, I find the complete score to Return of the Jedi more digestible than Empire Strikes Back, though there are definitely cues where they were designed to support the film foremost. Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Nick Parker said: Return to Tatooine is one of my favorite Star Wars tracks, and I'm being totally serious. Also, I find the complete score to Return of the Jedi more digestible than Empire Strikes Back, though there are definitely cues where they were designed to support the film foremost. You mean Tatooine Rendezvous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 minute ago, mxsch said: You mean Tatooine Rendezvous? Naw, I'm talking about Attack of the Clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 My bad. Yeah, this DotF rendition is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I think ROTJ might have the best highlights of any JW score 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,891 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Parker 3,040 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Romão said: I think ROTJ might have the best highlights of any JW score I can accept this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Return to Tatooine is one of my favourites for that stunning mystery theme, it's so mesmerizing. artguy360 and 1977 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,398 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 There are times when ROTJ is my favorite SW score. Usually in the fall, I love that score during that particular time of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 SW, ESB and ROJ are all on a par for me, although they are obviously different. ROTS is the head-scratcher for me, I just can't get into that score. TPM is the most Star-Warsy of the prequels, although my favourite prequel score as pure music is AOTC (although it doesn't really have that SW vibe - it's more of a Hitchcockian / Herrmannesque thing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,304 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 It would help if we had the complete score in decent quality. The existing 'complete' release sounds atrocious and I never want to revisit the score as a result (outside a few unreleased cues on the Anthology set). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 All the scores deserve complete, remastered releases. How long will they twiddle their thumbs on these iconic scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 I don't think it's accurate to call it 'underrated'. The film is, perhaps, but not the score. Personally, it's not only my favourite SW score, but my second-favourite score of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 After twin peaks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 JURASSIC PARK. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Thor said: Personally, it's not only my favourite SW score, but my second-favourite score of all time. In what form do you listen to it? The LP program probably. I find it a bit inconvenient that this magnificent score never got the 2LP program it deserved. There is enough highlights that would have allowed for some 30 minutes more without weakening the listening experience. I'm wondering what you think about this. Generally I wouldn't give the title of most underrated Star Wars score to Episode VI. That trophy should go to Episode II. And if anyone replies to this with "but Episode II is bullshit" you confirm that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: I find it a bit inconvenient that this magnificent score never got the 2LP program it deserved. It basically got that in the anthology box. 33 minutes ago, Thor said: JURASSIC PARK. Oh yes, I forgot. It might be my favourite as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 37 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: In what form do you listen to it? The LP program probably. I find it a bit inconvenient that this magnificent score never got the 2LP program it deserved. There is enough highlights that would have allowed for some 30 minutes more without weakening the listening experience. I'm wondering what you think about this. Generally I wouldn't give the title of most underrated Star Wars score to Episode VI. That trophy should go to Episode II. And if anyone replies to this with "but Episode II is bullshit" you confirm that. But Epsiode II is bullshit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,033 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 It's got the first ever love theme of the saga! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,478 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Brundlefly said: In what form do you listen to it? The anthology box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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