blondheim 1,157 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 That's great! I love the Defay Ensemble stuff. Some of my favorite parts of the score. The more medieval sounding music is the best Harry Potter has probably ever been. People give Patrick Doyle a lot of crap but we must remember that Williams broke the mold first. By POA even he was basically only reprising Hedwig's Theme. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,525 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 *Dufay Collective blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BrotherSound 2,242 Posted August 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, crumbs said: A version without vocals (as it appears in the film) has never been released, sadly. JW must strongly prefer it that way: other than a slight tweak to the end credits, the only way the live-to-projection version significantly differs from the film is it does include the choir during the Quidditch cue. crumbs, bollemanneke and Jurassic Shark 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 You're paying those choir members to be on stage the whole time, might as well use em! blondheim and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 I reckon the film version without the choir works well in the film because of all the sound effects that add to the sound picture. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Just rewatched the scene on YouTube, and I disagree. I believe the choir would've made a huge difference on the scene. But I guess Cuarón thought it was too epic too early in the movie. But particularly I'd say that scene with choir would've been great! Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 14 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: JW must strongly prefer it that way: other than a slight tweak to the end credits, the only way the live-to-projection version significantly differs from the film is it does include the choir during the Quidditch cue. Interesting! I missed POA when it played locally (boy I regret that now). Does all the source music get played live, also? Dufay, Courtyard, etc.? 8 minutes ago, Edmilson said: But I guess Cuarón thought it was too epic too early in the movie. Personally the film version makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Love the way the whole soundtrack goes quiet (even the sound effects) and highlights the very mysterious rendition of Sirius' motif (which is totally lost on the album version underneath the chorus). It's a great contrast with the dramatic visuals. bollemanneke and Chewy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,042 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, crumbs said: Interesting! I missed POA when it played locally (boy I regret that now). Does all the source music get played live, also? Dufay, Courtyard, etc.? Pretty much! But it's scored so that more modern instruments can take over the parts, as is usually necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, crumbs said: Interesting! I missed POA when it played locally (boy I regret that now). Does all the source music get played live, also? Dufay, Courtyard, etc.? Yep! A Winter's Spell is especially awesome in concert, as you can hear it all very clearly, unlike the film 1 minute ago, Datameister said: Pretty much! But it's scored so that more modern instruments can take over the parts, as is usually necessary. The Knight Bus music probably has the most instrumental changes I suppose, but it still sounds great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Can you hear A Winter's Spell clearly in concert, though? I only saw one YouTube clip of that scene and thhe trio's conversation during that song was so overbearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 At the concert I attended I could hear it very well indeed! Could be the sort of thing that is different depending on venue, and where you seat is in the venue, i suppose bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,525 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 And how well they can be bothered to mix it. When I attended HP1, the speakers blew out with every high pitched shrill noise, which, considering the number of 11 year olds present in the sound mix, were in quite high numbers, until they did something by the second half. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 It is my understanding that the same mixing team travels from venue to venue with Freer or whoever is conducting and the rest of the CineConcerts team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 I don't believe that at all. My HP1 concert and mix were good. My HP2 concert and mix were awful, same hall, different conductor and severe rehearsal/preparation issues. God, I hope I can see HP3 live one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 It's true. The guys running the mixing board are CineConcerts employees, not employees of the venue bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 I have heard there is a lack of rehearsal from instrumentalists I know in Pittsburgh who have performed in a few of these (E.T., ESB, Harry Potter, etc.). They also say that regardless it is one of the most magical moments of their life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 I really don't understand the lack of rehearsal time. How difficult can it be to get the sheet music in time to musicians if they need to prepare everything for multiple venues anyway? The way the conductor on Maurizio's podcast explained it, it sounded to me like there's a concerted effort not to do it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, bollemanneke said: I really don't understand the lack of rehearsal time. How difficult can it be to get the sheet music in time to musicians if they need to prepare everything for multiple venues anyway? The way the conductor on Maurizio's podcast explained it, it sounded to me like there's a concerted effort not to do it properly. Rehearsal time is expensive. Paying up to one hundred musicians for several extra hours is not something you want to do if maximizing your profit is your main concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 But why can they do it with Beethoven and not with Harry Potter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Beethoven is part of their core repertoire, so it requires less rehearsal to get right. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 *One of the reasons Herrmann gets played alot in concert ( besides being great music) is that it's easy for musicians to play. *That is not a criticism Tom Servo😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Beethoven is part of their core repertoire, so it requires less rehearsal to get right. But that conductor basically said he sometimes had months for one symphony. Anyone with brains would realize HP1-3 are at least as complex as a Beethoven symphony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skelly 261 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Re: the choir in the Quidditch cue -- I agree with crumbs that dropping the choir makes the Grim's looming image more eerie. That little section was chopped in half in the final cut (there's no giant "Double Trouble" statement anymore) so maybe there was something in the editing or length which Williams was responding to that we can't see anymore. And with that in mind it kind of "breaks" the music if choir suddenly comes and goes without that Double Trouble there to tie it back to the rest of the track. Another reason they nixed it might be because choir is the trademark sound of the patronus and narratively it's out of place here. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: But that conductor basically said he sometimes had months for one symphony. Anyone with brains would realize HP1-3 are at least as complex as a Beethoven symphony. Subscription concerts are part of the orchestra's day-to-day activities, while for LTP concerts someone hires them (usually). blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,042 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Jay said: Yep! A Winter's Spell is especially awesome in concert, as you can hear it all very clearly, unlike the film The Knight Bus music probably has the most instrumental changes I suppose, but it still sounds great Yeah, not too many saxes in your average symphony orchestra, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,525 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Skelly said: (there's no giant "Double Trouble" statement anymore) Do you mean the Sirius moti-ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you just broke my brain bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 It's the final appearance of the Double Trouble theme until the end of the film. The day I realized that JW only used that theme in the first half of the film was like a "huh." moment for me He'd do the same thing about 10 years later with Finn's theme in TFA bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skelly 261 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 wanna know subtle motif switcheroo... Peter Pettigrew's theme (or, what I guess was the standard "danger" motif before all the music editing made it his theme) is just the Nimbus 2000 Theme with the last two notes switched around. who knows if that's intentional or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,525 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jay said: It's the final appearance of the Double Trouble theme until the end of the film. End of The Executioner! bollemanneke and Smeltington 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Holko said: End of The Executioner! Yea.... maybe the notes are the same (I'm no expert) but the cadence is different giving it a different feel than the early cues entirely. It's even more altered than the Quidditch Match variation if it is considered a variation bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxsch 115 Posted August 10, 2020 Author Share Posted August 10, 2020 Guys, wanna throw in my 5 cents, let's again discuss Zam Chase in COS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 What is there to say about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,525 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 It's great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 The LSO played the shit out of it in its COS version bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,436 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 My theory is that it was just Williams acting like James Horner and copying himself, which he did in that case to save time, specially since he had little time to properly write a fleshed out cue. I don't buy that that cue was Ross copying AOTC, mainly because that cue is so much more than just Zam version 2. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 6 hours ago, crumbs said: Yes, there are items missing, but hardly a deal-breaker when you consider what is included. Just: an alternate opening for Buckbeak's Flight (this was replaced by an insert in the film and on album) Wait? There’s a alternate, quieter opening for Buckbeak? This is one of my favorite cues but I’ve always felt that the drums in the intro are jarring in comparison to the rest of the tracks. I’d have loved, absolutely loved, for it to be included. Also, to have Time Past without the ticking... The dream! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 1 hour ago, rough cut said: Wait? There’s a alternate, quieter opening for Buckbeak? This is one of my favorite cues but I’ve always felt that the drums in the intro are jarring in comparison to the rest of the tracks. I’d have loved, absolutely loved, for it to be included. 5 hours ago, Jay said: I think the entire original opening is technically there in all version, you just can't hear it under the pounding drums. it's not really like they replaced the original opening, just added a drum leadup on top of it all. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Perhaps someone could filter the drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,342 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 No, they're all dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,352 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 To clarify further: it's not like the 12 second new percussion intro replaced 12 seconds of an original opening; The first 10 seconds of the percussion intro just starts 10 seconds earlier than the cue originally did, so only from 0:10-0:12 are the first 2 seconds of the original cue buried under the new intro. In other words, 0:12-end of the OST/LLL track = 0:02-end of the original cue I know I've heard a mockup before of those opening 2 seconds back from when the sheet music leaked, but I didn't find it searching JWFan threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Jay said: I know I've heard a mockup before of those opening 2 seconds back from when the sheet music leaked, but I didn't find it searching JWFan threads There’s really not much to it: the percussion ends on the downbeat of bar 3. Bars 3 and 4 (roughly 0:13-0:16) are an exact repeat of bars 1 and 2. It should be possible to edit a reasonable approximation of the original version if anyone wants to badly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,480 Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 The part from 0:13 to 0:14 is ABSOLUTELY magnificient!!!! BrotherSound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 The film version of the end credits features more of that underlying music than the album version too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 53 minutes ago, crumbs said: The film version of the end credits features more of that underlying music than the album version too. Oh, you’re right! The end credits Buckbeak’s Flight starts at the very beginning of the original version, though without a clean opening, of course. I also just noticed in addition to the added cymbal crash, there’s also a few seconds of harp glissandos added here not present in the other version (and not in the written score). Pando and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,306 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, BrotherSound said: I also just noticed in addition to the added cymbal crash, there’s also a few seconds of harp glissandos added here not present in the other version (and not in the written score). Probably a podium change to "soup up" that introductory music, before the taiko drum insert was conceived? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 9 hours ago, Jay said: To clarify further: it's not like the 12 second new percussion intro replaced 12 seconds of an original opening; The first 10 seconds of the percussion intro just starts 10 seconds earlier than the cue originally did, so only from 0:10-0:12 are the first 2 seconds of the original cue buried under the new intro. In other words, 0:12-end of the OST/LLL track = 0:02-end of the original cue I know I've heard a mockup before of those opening 2 seconds back from when the sheet music leaked, but I didn't find it searching JWFan threads So, I wouldn't call a 2-second overlap "missing music", when it's basically all there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 I love the drums if anyone cares. bollemanneke and Biodome 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,066 Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 They're great! Biodome and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rough cut 1,714 Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 On 8/11/2020 at 1:30 AM, BrotherSound said: There’s really not much to it: the percussion ends on the downbeat of bar 3. Bars 3 and 4 (roughly 0:13-0:16) are an exact repeat of bars 1 and 2. It should be possible to edit a reasonable approximation of the original version if anyone wants to badly enough. Yeah, I might do that. I hate those drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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