Edmilson 7,265 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On the 1980s and 1990s, John Williams followed one beloved adventure score (Raiders of the Lost Ark and Jurassic Park) with a sequel that is darker, more aggressive and has more action than its predecessors. So, what score do you personally prefer: the exotic adventure of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom? Or the wild jungle rhytms of The Lost World? Vote now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,400 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 My favourite Indy score and movie of course! blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,385 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Ooh, tricky. TEMPLE OF DOOM is heads and shoulders beyond THE LOST WORLD if you take the OST into account. If, however, you use the expanded version, it's miles behind the THE LOST WORLD OST. TOD simply crumbles in an expanded format. As does the THE LOST WORLD, for that matter. But in a straight comparison between the two OSTs, TEMPLE OF DOOM wins. And, I would argue, as a score-in-context. So I voted that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Like them both equally SingeMoisi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaug The Iron 497 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Both are great but Temple of Doom wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellosh 3,317 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Temple of Doom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,618 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 4 hours ago, Thor said: TEMPLE OF DOOM is heads and shoulders beyond THE LOST WORLD if you take the OST into account. If, however, you use the expanded version, it's miles behind the THE LOST WORLD OST. TOD simply crumbles in an expanded format. You've listened to the expanded versions? TLW for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Bayesian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,449 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 THE LOST WORLD is faster, darker, and sounds better, both artistically, and technically, but...TEMPLE OF DOOM has Approaching The Stones, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Had to go for Temple of Doom just for sheer inventiveness, power and the trio of new themes, but by god, is The Lost World a brilliant score! SingeMoisi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 7,939 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 The Lost World for me. There is something about Temple of Doom's feverish over-the-top high-80's show-off act that doesn't sit with me as well these days. It's just bit tiresome to listen to because it wants to keep that energy for two hours. Same reason I can't really listen to Hook anymore. On the other hand, second Jurassic Park might not share the same kind of thematic brilliance but it does sound like nothing else in Williams' career. Having said that, I would welcome the expanded Indy sets. Someone needs to do it right. Karol Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 The Lost World easily. I hate Temple of Doom the movie and don’t have much attachment to the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,355 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 20 hours ago, Thor said: TOD simply crumbles in an expanded format. As does the THE LOST WORLD, for that matter. How can you prefer THE LOST WORLD OST over the expanded release? How is that possible? Falstaft and 1977 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, Chewy said: How can you prefer THE LOST WORLD OST over the expanded release? How is that possible? It’s Thor. He will ALWAYS prefer the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,400 Posted July 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 19, 2020 41 minutes ago, Chewy said: How can you prefer THE LOST WORLD OST over the expanded release? How is that possible? Quite a tragic story actually. You see, he got in a freak accident when he was 2 and lost the part of his brain that helps him appreciate the storytelling, structure and development that makes film music film music and special. When he's confronted with it, his body's rejecting it in what's not too dissimilar to an allergic reaction, so he can only take it in randomised mushes (preferably under an hour long, no matter how long the original is, his attention span was severely hurt too) that scramble and obscure as much of those elements as possible. Chewy, Muad'Dib and Bilbo 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,382 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Wow, no one gets so mean, when Drax is spreading mental litter all over the Coronavirus thread. Nevertheless, TLW is one of the strongest complete score experiences ever. One of very very very few examples that doesn't need to be cut down. TOD suffers from its lack of variety on the expanded version. There's a ton of loud action cues that get rarely interrupted, because the softer and more atmopheric cues from the film are not included on the release. Still much better than the awfully short OST. The latter epitomizes underrepresentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,615 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 no contest tod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo 3,709 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: Wow, no one gets so mean, when Drax is spreading mental litter all over the Coronavirus thread Nobody takes Drax seriously though. He’s a parody of a parody. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Just like RotK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Oof, this is a tough one for me. Both scores initially disappointed me by being so different from their predecessors, and both are now among my favorites for the same reason. I definitely listen to TLW more often. TOD is so hyper that I'm not always in the mood, whereas TLW (in complete form) has really high re-listenability for me. Of course, in terms of themes, TOD wins hands-down; themes are simply beside the point for most of TLW. What TLW does offer is a musical journey quite unlike anything else in Williams' career. TOD is a clever, fast-paced ballet through soundscapes both delightful and hellish. TLW is a moody jungle of a score that somehow feels like it's saying something profound about the dinosaurs, and it's certainly the "grooviest" Williams score I've heard. Today I'll give it to TLW. Ask me tomorrow and it could go the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 18 minutes ago, Datameister said: somehow feels like it's saying something profound about the dinosaurs No, that's Jurassic Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,019 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: No, that's Jurassic Park. Musically, what I get from the first film about the dinosaurs is that carnivores are scary and dangerous while herbivores are noble and beautiful. (Nothing wrong with that!) But TLW feels different. The new four-note motif is haunting and a little ambiguous. It's used for carnivores and herbivores. For me, it hints at a more naturalistic interpretation of the dinosaurs. It's about the dinosaurs as they actually are, not as humans perceive and react to them. As Grant says I'm the first film, they just "do what they do." This would have been especially driven home by the final moments before the credits, had they not been replaced by the much more bombastic island fanfare. To be clear, I'm not denigrating the first score. I probably still prefer it over TLW, and I have plenty of love for TLW. I just find the difference in musical perspective to be stark - and fascinating. Brundlefly and Taikomochi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth 67 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 13 hours ago, crocodile said: The Lost World for me. There is something about Temple of Doom's feverish over-the-top high-80's show-off act that doesn't sit with me as well these days. It's just bit tiresome to listen to because it wants to keep that energy for two hours. Same reason I can't really listen to Hook anymore. On the other hand, second Jurassic Park might not share the same kind of thematic brilliance but it does sound like nothing else in Williams' career. Having said that, I would welcome the expanded Indy sets. Someone needs to do it right. Karol This. Temple of Doom is just too much; I admire the technique behind it all but I really don't want to listen to most of it. The Lost World is unique and I like that it sort of stands out in his work. It's another example of why 1996-2005 is second only to 1977-1983 (and it's close) in how I rate the periods of Williams' career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,265 Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 I listened to TOD yesterday, and while it's indeed a classic score, it's also... just too much. Too much action, too much playfulness, too exaggerated, etc. Meanwhile, TLW features one of my favorite JW themes, and also what for me is one of his top 5 (maybe top 3) action tracks: Visitor in San Diego. This cue is just amazing! crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,268 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 The Lost World. The expanded edition really, really, really elevated it as a master work crumbs and Taikomochi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTenma 116 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Considering the expanded editions I voted for The Lost World. Temple of Doom comes very close but I think The Lost World is a more varied score, with more ideas and better arrangements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,275 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 10 hours ago, Edmilson said: I listened to TOD yesterday, and while it's indeed a classic score, it's also... just too much. Too much action, too much playfulness, too exaggerated, etc. The Lost World is an impressively balanced score in complete form. Temple of Doom is undoubtedly overflowing with ideas and energy (not to mention superb themes) but it's excessively scored... but that's part of the charm and definitely intentional. So it depends entirely on my mood but TLW is the more rewarding chronological listen to my ears. I'll be curious to hear TOD in complete form once Mike fixes the situation. The music we have via the Concord isn't an accurate representation of JW's intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 11 hours ago, Edmilson said: I listened to TOD yesterday, and while it's indeed a classic score, it's also... just too much. Too much action, too much playfulness, too exaggerated, etc. That's why we have the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,268 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 If you only had 60 minutes to fill, you might be able to make a better listening experience out of TOD than the Lost World. But as complete scores go, I find The Lost World to be a more rewarding experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,505 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 TOD is a human descent to hell. TLW is a dark safari in hell. TOD has more flashy highlights and greater entertainment value, but boy, JP02 could accompany the most serious films ever made, and has some really terrifying moments. I can see why it is the connoisseur choice. Voted accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 607 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Once we a have a definitive, decently put together "MM like" expanded edition of ToD, ToD will be. But since we don't have that yet, then I'll vote for ToD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 11,956 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 minute ago, phbart said: Once we a have a definitive, decently put together "MM like" expanded edition of ToD, ToD will be. But since we don't have that yet, then I'll vote for ToD. Umm, okay. phbart and Bilbo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,042 Posted July 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 20, 2020 Oooh boy. Two of my favorite scores of all time. How can I possibly choose!? I ended up choosing TOD for the poll but could have chosen TLW. These are two scores I listen to more frequently than almost any other scores in my entire collection. And both scores are ones that are greatly improved by listening to the complete score over their original albums. I find it curious that so many posts are saying that TOD is too relentless. I think this could be partially because the 2008 Concord expansion was sort of not well though out in its track selection. They took the OST than added mostly additional action music to make that new disc 2 of that box set, leaving much of the moodier underscore either on the 5th disc, or still unreleased. If you listen to the COMPLETE TOD score, with every single cue all in order, it's not this big unrelenting action fest. It has a real nice ebb and flow as the story goes forward, with of course many action highlights... but it's not too overwhelming. Someday MM will get to tackle this score, and hopefully it will change some opinions. SingeMoisi, Bellosh, Martinland and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post phbart 607 Posted July 20, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 20, 2020 The thing about ToD is that JW brilliantly composed every single note for it, whether we're talking about action sequences, the underscore, the creepy stuff from the underground temple scenes. The orchestrations are so rich, so detailed. And it's incredible how he used the the slave children's theme with such flexibilty. At first to illustrate the dramatic situation with the villagers when Indy arrives there (and when we're actually introduced to the theme). Then used even more dramatically during the forced labor sequences. Then it completely changes to an heroic theme when Short Round escapes, and even more heroic when Indy free the slaves. And how it's subtly used to illustrate a (sort of) sense of justice, good triumphing over evil, during the broken bridge when Indy starts saying "you betrayed Shiva" to Mola Ram. Even subtle uses of the theme, like on "Short Round's Theme", when the village leader is praying as Indy is heading to the temple, is greatly used to illustrate a sense of hope and almost childish optimism. And when Indy finally returns the stone to the leader and he goes "now you can see the magic of the rock...", the theme also subtly illustrated a sense of goodness, kindness. I might be wrong (as almost always), but I can't think of a particular theme where JW used with such variety in a film like he did with the slave children's theme. Falstaft, Datameister, Jay and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,042 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 I know right? Such an amazing theme. I also really love the smaller theme for the stones, especially in the original version of the Old Priest's Tale SingeMoisi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phbart 607 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Yes, the oboes (or similar sounding woodwind instrument playing it) really gives it an eerie feeling. I hope when MM tackles with it, those precious bytes from the digital recording tapes are all intact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,382 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Jay said: Oooh boy. Two of my favorite scores of all time. How can I possibly choose!? I ended up choosing TOD for the poll but could have chosen TLW. These are two scores I listen to more frequently than almost any other scores in my entire collection. And both scores are ones that are greatly improved by listening to the complete score over their original albums. I find it curious that so many posts are saying that TOD is too relentless. I think this could be partially because the 2008 Concord expansion was sort of not well though out in its track selection. They took the OST than added mostly additional action music to make that new disc 2 of that box set, leaving much of the moodier underscore either on the 5th disc, or still unreleased. If you listen to the COMPLETE TOD score, with every single cue all in order, it's not this big unrelenting action fest. It has a real nice ebb and flow as the story goes forward, with of course many action highlights... but it's not too overwhelming. Someday MM will get to tackle this score, and hopefully it will change some opinions. This! 100%! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,205 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Easy. Tod is brilliant. JP2 is just jungle noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bellosh 3,317 Posted July 31, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 31, 2020 I appreciate The Lost World didn't rely on the 'Journey to the Island' and 'JP' themes. But all the different themes in Temple of Doom are just untouchable. Nobody can make a score like that anymore. Nevermind his ABSOLUTE GRIP on the Raiders March in ToD. 2:45-end. SingeMoisi, Jay, The Illustrious Jerry and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,205 Posted July 31, 2020 Share Posted July 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, Bellosh said: I appreciate The Lost World didn't rely on the 'Journey to the Island' and 'JP' themes. But all the different themes in Temple of Doom are just untouchable. Nobody can make a score like that anymore. Nevermind his ABSOLUTE GRIP on the Raiders March in ToD. 2:45-end. One of the greastest build-up for a theme for its full glory. Yes, no one does it better!! Falstaft and Bellosh 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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