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Has Hans Zimmer aged well?


Jurassic Shark
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Has Hans Zimmer aged well?  

39 members have voted

  1. 1. Has Hans Zimmer aged well?



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To be fair, that’s a pretty classy response. And a pretty apt critique of film music journalism.

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I can’t believe he apologized. I mean, it’s a good thing, but this is so weird   
 

Actually, yeah, nah, fuck him still for what is basically, “sorry but I was justified”

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Can't make up my mind how sincere his response is, guess it's good that at least he admitted it but it's a bit of a "I'd like to apologise for any offence caused" rather than "I'd like to apologise". As in, "I'm not really that sorry, but I'm sorry I upset you". He should become a politician...
 

In any event, does he not think that perhaps people rag on him, Remote Control and associated composers with good reason?! I mean, JW gets lots of flack from classical music lovers; there's even a classical group on Facebook I used to be on as it was interesting, but who were super dismissive of JW, film music in general - even the more revered ones like Bernard Herrmann etc. - it even specifically banned talk about JW and I doubt the members could actually find the joy in his music and would likely be just sitting there to spot every 3 notes by Prokofiev or Walton etc. but I don't see JW bitching about it. Or even worrying about it.

 

It's not in his interests to admit it, but his approach to film scoring has turned into even more of a commodity and to try and pretend otherwise is somewhat disingenuous. Even in the 80s (for example) when every fantasy/sci-fi director wanted Star Wars, there's a considerably wider variety in styles even though I'm sure they would have had JW write the music if they could.

 

HZ should read The Rest is Noise by Alex Ross (New Yorker music critic) who can only just about tolerate the barest sliver of film music and who I suspect would crap opprobrium on Zimmer and his band from a great height but probably considers them beneath him to even care. At least James made the effort to consider the scores of HZ and acolytes with a more fair minded view and, as has been noted, frequently rated them highly.

 

The Rest is Noise is a great read by the way... albeit more for those interested in classical music.

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7 minutes ago, Not Mr. Big said:

Seemed pretty half-assed and victim-blamimg to me

 

I don't know. I think he rightly points to a culture in film music fan circles of doubling down on deep-rooted biases and casually dismissing the labour of various artists in Zimmer's circle as being worthless. And film music "critique" rarely engages in a meaningful dialogue about process and aesthetic outside of "I liked it" and "I didn't like it" and there is little effort to engage with artistic process around the craft and get at deeper critique. Though I think this is definitely changing as there are more interesting things being done by writers/podcasters and etc these days (some of whom are on this forum).

 

Obviously lashing out at Southall was out of turn, but I think he's justified in articulating where that's coming from. Regardless of what I think of JXL's work (not a fan), there is an undeniable lack of nuance/perspective when it comes to discussing these things. Everything has to fit under this one heavily prescribed box to be considered "good film music" or it's automatically trash.

 

16 minutes ago, Holko said:

I dunno, he's still misplacing the "blame" on the guy who just responded "Exactly" to something kinda harmless that someone else said instead of fully admitting he was the aggressor and bully here on little to no fair ground.

 

Yea...that wasn't cool. Clearly he was trying to get at a larger point, and ended up taking it out on the first name he recognized.

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I wish I knew what was posted by Zimmer and Southal in between those first two comments from each and this new apology

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7 minutes ago, mstrox said:


This proves nothing!  Here is Hans in my living room.

 

76F7EF56-188F-42EB-8A69-4C06E2C1D875.jpeg

 

see?  

 

Isn't that shelf about to fall down?

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Is this some Facebook group where all the discourse is going down or it is literally just on Zimmer's own Facebook page? 

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1 minute ago, Quintus said:

Is this some Facebook group where all the discourse is going down or it is literally just on Zimmer's own Facebook page? 

 

Erik already posted a screenshot of exactly where it's from:

 

1 hour ago, Erik Woods said:

 

Are you a friend of Mikael Carlsson's on Facebook?  If so, it's all there. If not, then this is how it began. 

 

Screenshot 2021-03-08 105958.png

Screen Shot 2021-03-07 at 3.59.12 PM.png

 

 

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That was a good and levelheaded apology from Zimmer. Although one should always strive to restrain oneself, I can certainly understand and sympathize with some of the frustrations that cause this, frustrations that can eventually turn into an irrational explosion when your friends and colleagues have been lambasted for so long. James just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, as the receiving end of such an explosion. 

 

I, myself, feel the urge to yell at a lot of people here on JWFAN or FSM every single day, when something I love dearly is being trampled on by a stampede, but I try to restrain myself. These are all very human mechanisms, whether you're a big shot Hollywood person or a nobody like me. I think we should bear that in mind. But for Zimmer's sake, perhaps it would be a good idea to tone down the participation on social media for a while, to 'shield himself' from all the shitstorms he and his company are receiving. Might be more fruitful in the end.

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5 minutes ago, Thor said:

I, myself, feel the urge to yell at a lot of people here on JWFAN or FSM every single day

 

I'd say you found a good solution for that with your Zoom meetings. :)

 

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

In that world, what would there be to talk about?

 

Hans Zimmer? :sarcasm:

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21 minutes ago, Thor said:

That was a good and levelheaded apology from Zimmer. Although one should always strive to restrain oneself, I can certainly understand and sympathize with some of the frustrations that cause this, frustrations that can eventually turn into an irrational explosion when your friends and colleagues have been lambasted for so long. James just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time, as the receiving end of such an explosion. 

 

I, myself, feel the urge to yell at a lot of people here on JWFAN or FSM every single day, when something I love dearly is being trampled on by a stampede, but I try to restrain myself. These are all very human mechanisms, whether you're a big shot Hollywood person or a nobody like me. I think we should bear that in mind. But for Zimmer's sake, perhaps it would be a good idea to tone down the participation on social media for a while, to 'shield himself' from all the shitstorms he and his company are receiving. Might be more fruitful in the end.

How generous!

Now Desplat, Giacchino, and Göransson would like to have a word with you

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24 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Why have you historically had such a hard time understanding that different humans on this earth like and dislike different things than you do?  Do you want every one of us to like all the same stuff you do and dislike all the same stuff you do?  In that world, what would there be to talk about?

 

What the fuck are you talking about? If anything, I keep receiving shit for the way I prefer soundtracks to be presented, for example, but rarely lash out in return. I want to with every fibre of my body. Every single time. But usually restrain myself because it wouldn't be constructive. I just take it and move on most of the time (of course I have also exploded once or twice in the past). So your description there is waaaaaaaay off. 

 

But this is more about our feelings. None of us are robots (at least I am not, I'm not quite sure about you yet). It's a basic human reaction to be upset when you're in a room where a lot of people "pile on" with negativity towards something you love. So although I do not agree with the way Zimmer handled himself in that situation; he should have restrained himself, I can understand the basic psychological mechanisms that could lead up to that.

 

By the way, it seems the situation has sorted itself out now. James and Zimmer have "made up" in that Facebook thread.

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2 hours ago, Taikomochi said:

Lick that boot harder, my dude. Zimmer was acting like an asshole. You can still like his music without excusing him acting like a cunt.

 

Unless Southall has made other comments in that thread than the “exactly”, which I haven’t seen anyone else say otherwise.

Never said he wasn’t, my guy. Just saying if you act like an asshole, don’t act all surprised when someone does it right back.

 

Seems like there’s a greater context between Southall and Zimmer that I’m not familiar with, but to bring this whole thing back into focus: this initially was about judging a score no one has heard by its runtime.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Thor said:

it seems the situation has sorted itself out now. James and Zimmer has "made up" in that Facebook thread.

 

Screenshot, please.

 

3 minutes ago, Holko said:

That would be very little consolation if I just quit my job

 

I doubt anybody pays him anything for his reviews. Isn't it more like his hobby?

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2 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

I doubt anybody pays he anything for his reviews. Isn't it more like his hobby?

Corrected/amended

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9 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

What the fuck are you talking about? If anything, I keep receiving shit for the way I prefer soundtracks to be presented, for example, but rarely lash out in return. I want to with every fibre of my body. Every single time. But usually restrain myself because it wouldn't be constructive. I just take it and move on. So your description there is waaaaaaaay off. 

 

Wow, rude response to a genuine question.  Anyways, you certainly missed my point, as this response proves my point.  To explain using different words, you indicated that you often get angry when yuo see opinions different then your own, I asked you why different people having opinions makes you so angry, and your response is to tell me that indeed seeing different opinions make you angry.

 

So I'm not sure what was off about my "description"; I was sincerely asking you why these different opinions anger you instead of being OK with different opinions existing.  Does that make things any more clear?

 

Quote

But this is more about our feelings. None of us are robots (at least I am not, I'm not quite sure about you yet). It's a basic human reaction to be upset when you're in a room where a lot of people "pile on" with negativity towards something you love. So although I do not agree with the way Zimmer handled himself in that situation; he should have restrained himself, I can understand the basic psychological mechanisms that could lead up to that.

 

Wow, rude again.  Not sure why you're lashing out at me so much.

 

Of course its natural to want to defend something you love, no one was suggesting otherwise.  I am asking about why you seem to take it so personally you get angered over a different opinion every single time, instead of embracing the fact that different people like different things.  Is that clear?

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3 minutes ago, Holko said:

I dunno, you're the one to always force yourself into threads about expansion announcements and questions and polls and go "OST OST OST" (unless when some joker tags you just because). The forum does not exist for the sole purpose of pleasing you and exactly only you, nobody's forcing you to even go in and read them.

 

That's an opinion. A preference. You're aware this is a messageboard where different opinions and preferences are exchanged, right? If you don't like my opinion, disagree with it. Or ignore it. Or ignore me, I don't care. But resorting to personal attacks (which you've often done ) because you do not share that opinion is the lowest of the lowest. It's exactly the thing Zimmer did in that Facebook exchange. In the end, it will only backfire negatively on you.

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...an opinion you for whatever reason feel obligated to shout every time by voluntarily going into the threads that you know are focused on the opinions that anger you?

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1 minute ago, Jay said:

Of course its natural to want to defend something you love, no one was suggesting otherwise.  I am asking about why you seem to take it so personally you get angered over a different opinion every single time, instead of embracing the fact that different people like different things.  Is that clear?

 

My point is that we're not robots. We all have feelings, and they can be hurt. The trick, however, is not to let those feelings dictate behaviour or how we communicate with others, as the Zimmer case exemplifies well. When something or someone pisses me off here, I take a few breaths, count to ten, then write my disagreement in a more levelheaded state of mind (as I mentioned earlier, there are incidents in the past where I've been unable to follow my own advice, I'm only human).

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Yea, you're still completely bypassing the actual question I asked.  I guess you're not interested in answering it.

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40 minutes ago, Holko said:

...an opinion you for whatever reason feel obligated to shout every time by voluntarily going into the threads that you know are focused on the opinions that anger you?

 

Shout?

 

Actually, I tend to steer clear of most expansion threads, but since 90% of all topics here are about that, or eventually turn into one (without my help), there's no getting around it if I want to partake in the discussions here.

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6 minutes ago, Jay said:

Yea, you're still completely bypassing the actual question I asked.  I guess you're not interested in answering it.

 

I tried my best. Don't know how else I can express it. I don't get angry from a different opinion in and of itself, but I can get frustrated if I'm in a room where you feel like you're being ganged up on because you hold a minority view of something. I think that was the frustration in play for Zimmer too (as he says in the apology) -- due to the long history of RCP/JXL bashing on all kinds of platforms. So it becomes a matter of holding those frustrations in check when you interact with other people. Zimmer failed in that instance, and so have I on few occasions in the past. We're only human.

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OK, you made it seem earlier that simply seeing a different opinion than one you hold made you angry, not that you only get angry if you feel "ganged up" on.

 

This doesn't explain, however, why your response to me was so rude and filled with anger, because I wasn't ganging up on you, or even being malicious at all in my question. 

 

Which makes me think you do in fact get angry more easier than only at "gang up" situations.

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23 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

 

 

Seems like there’s a greater context between Southall and Zimmer that I’m not familiar with, but to bring this whole thing back into focus: this initially was about judging a score no one has heard by its runtime.

 

 


JAMES DID NOT DO THAT!

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6 minutes ago, Jay said:

This doesn't explain, however, why your response to me was so rude and filled with anger, because I wasn't ganging up on you, or even being malicious at all in my question. 

 

I think your initial post was more rude than mine, but that's the challenges of discussing without body language, I suppose. Good to know that neither of us intended to be rude, then.

 

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Which makes me think you do in fact get angry more easier than only at "gang up" situations.

 

If I got angry just by encountering a different opinion, I wouldn't survive very long in the business I'm in. It's a business based on disagreements in many cases. I love to discuss disagreements, but only if it's constructive.

 

Anyways, this was all just a sidetrack meant to illlustrate the psychology in play in cases such the Zimmer one.

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7 minutes ago, Erik Woods said:

JAMES DID NOT DO THAT!

 

I have no dog in this fight; I don't have a strong opinion on Zimmer's music one way or another, and I've never read a James Southall review

 

But Gary Dalkin said "This would have to be the best film score ever to justify that length.  I doubt this is the best film score ever."

 

To which James Southall replied "Exactly"
 

Is that not two people "judging a score no one has heard by its runtime"?

 

I'd love elaboration on your opinion, it is entirely possible I am missing something (especially consider the entire conversation has still not been shared here and I have no ability to go view it all myself)

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A producer apparently found Zimmer's attack on Southall very funny.

 

Screenshot_20210308-140621_Twitter.jpg

Screenshot_20210308-140312_Twitter.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Bespin said:

A producer apparently found Zimmer's attack on Southall very funny.

 

 

 

 

Cremeritis, Erik already posted this

 

 

2 hours ago, Erik Woods said:

And here's more piling on this time from a Justice League producer. Classy!

 

 

 

I don't have time to screenshot the whole thing.  It's a massive thread.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Is that not two people "judging a score no one has heard by its runtime"?

 

I'd love ellaboration!

 

It's just one of Koray's old pet peeves. Which is now repurposed for this ill-fitting purpose.

 

Guys up in arms about Zimmer's lame Junkie defense, which isn't even overly aggressive or something, makes me think filmscoredom is a bunch of pathetic losers. Which of course would include me, which i absolutely deny. See, now i created my own little prelude to a shitstorm.

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

I have no dog in this fight; I don't have a strong opinion on Zimmer's music one way or another, and I've never read a James Southall review

 

But Gary Dalkin said "This would have to be the best film score ever to justify that length.  I doubt this is the best film score ever."

 

To which James Southall replied "Exactly"
 

Is that not two people "judging a score no one has heard by its runtime"?

 

I'd love elaboration on your opinion, it is entirely possible I am missing something (especially consider the entire conversation has still not been shared here and I have no ability to go view it all myself)


It’s a general comment meaning that no score other than the greatest in the world deserves a four hour release. Gary and James did not judge Justice League at all.

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